Overall thoughts

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Overall thoughts

Post by HalCHorn on Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:38 pm

Looks a bit better after Day 3, though I still wish we could have addressed the O-line with more than just Asiata and I certainly wish we would have taken a safety from one of the best classes at that position that I have ever seen.

According to PFF, we nabbed the 36 (Harris), 39 (Tankersley), 63 (Taylor), 94 (McMillan) and 97 (Ford) players on their board. Godchaux was at 169 and 203 was where Asiata fell. Within that context, not a bad draft--though then again, the 46th best player on their board (Joe Mathis) went undrafted.

Not impressed with our UFA list so far. I would have been on the phone to Tyler Orlosky and Jadar Johnson pronto.


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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by rightchea on Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:53 pm

I haven't seen the UFA list yet but I was impressed by Gase first actual draft. besides the first a third round which could have been better Miami did pretty well.

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by CarsonChris on Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:51 am

Omar Kelly, we netted 1 starter and some depth

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by JMP on Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:23 am

Seems like a typical Dolphins draft, loaded with mostly role players and career backups.

McMillan should start from day one, but again it's at a position that doesn't see the field much.

Asiata should be an eventual starter. I think he'll be fine, but not a Pro Bowler.

Harris looks like a career specialist to me, but maybe he'll surprise. He can definitely contribute.

Tank? Not sure...the more I see the more I think he's a waste.

I like the 2 DTs, though they seem like career rotational players/special teamers rather than future starters. They will help though.

Ford seems like a throwaway pick. I can't understand why the Phins drafted a WR that doesn't return punts or kicks...unless they think they can teach Ford to be a returner.

Overall, I'd give this class a solid C/C+. Not great, but not bad. Unfortunately, to play with the big dogs the Phins needed an A draft.

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by HalCHorn on Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:37 am

I don't think we improved enough to maintain the 10 win level this year, but on the bright side, we didn't hamstring ourselves again by trading a bunch of 2018 picks.

Extra picks would have allowed us to dip into a great safety class and double up at LB, OG or DE.

I give it a C. I think Buffalo made up ground (that they are likely to lose in the future since McDermott is firing the GM responsible), and (dammit) New England made good use of the 4 picks they had, doubling up at pass rusher and OT and getting Rivers, who many had going a round earlier.

Looking like back to 8-8 land this year.

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by Birdmond on Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:56 pm

Walterfootball, a know Dolphin hater gave the draft a B + as diid Pete Prisco. I still would have preferred the trade down , possibly getting Lamp, Willis and McMillan but whatever.

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by Umix10 on Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:07 pm

Here's the double edge sword.

If McMillan beats out Timmons then we wasted money

If Harris beats out Branch or Wake (highly unlikely) then we wasted money

If Aikens or Thomas beats out Allen/Mcdonald, we wasted money.

If and likely that they don't beat the incumbents. Shouldn't we have gone for a more gaping need rather than depth at the very least???????

The point being G and S would have added a solid starter. Melifonwu would have easily been the starter. He would help with Gronk at 6'4 and 227. McMillan is a great player he can play strongside and inside. The way I see it, Timmons is here for two years we could have waited and taken Melifonwu.

Tank was a waste IMHO. He's a younger Maxwell. His feet are horrible, which is why he uses his hands. I would have taken Shaq Griffin or Corn Elder. Either one would have been a better value than Tank.

Honestly, this draft would be great if we weren't trying to win this season. If they develop into the players they ought to be then we should be set. I just think that there's no balance on the roster for this year's run.

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by Birdmond on Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:23 pm

If Zack Thomas beats out Jack Del Rio we wasted money. Who cares ? It's not my money and we are 20 million under the cap. Don't count on Wake or Alonzo to play 16 games. I'd be willing to bet the first 4 picks play significant snaps this season.

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by DolFan 316 on Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:46 pm

JMP wrote:Seems like a typical Dolphins draft, loaded with mostly role players and career backups.

HA!!! I KNEW you'd come to your senses!!! Razz cheers

McMillan should start from day one, but again it's at a position that doesn't see the field much.

He *should*b start, but since this team loves to make rookies "compete" that means Misi's the starter for at least half the season no matter what.

Asiata should be an eventual starter.  I think he'll be fine, but not a Pro Bowler.

We don't need the 5th round guard pick to be a Pro Bowler, we just need him to not suck. That would be a major step up.

Harris looks like a career specialist to me, but maybe he'll surprise.  He can definitely contribute.

Only on passing downs. And even then better hope the opponent doesn't run screens or draws his way.

Tank?  Not sure...the more I see the more I think he's a waste.

A grabby CB who's so bad against the run every expert was compelled to point it out. But hey, he's TALL, he'll be fine! Rolling Eyes

I like the 2 DTs, though they seem like career rotational players/special teamers rather than future starters.  They will help though.

For where they were picked even if they turn out to be only as good as Phillips it's a win IMO.

Ford seems like a throwaway pick.  I can't understand why the Phins drafted a WR that doesn't return punts or kicks...unless they think they can teach Ford to be a returner.

Ford's not big. He's not fast. If he's not a returner then what exactly is he besides camp fodder? scratch

Overall, I'd give this class a solid C/C+.  Not great, but not bad.  Unfortunately, to play with the big dogs the Phins needed an A draft.

Not sure why you added the + Razz

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by DolFan 316 on Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:48 pm

HalCHorn wrote:I don't think we improved enough to maintain the 10 win level this year, but on the bright side, we didn't hamstring ourselves again by trading a bunch of 2018 picks.

That's true!!! The one bright spot and it doesn't even involve anybody they picked Laughing

Looking like back to 8-8 land this year.

I say 6-10. Last two drafts (exceot for Tunsil) haven't made an already low talent roster better. Like, at all. This season the absurd luck runs out.

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by DolFan 316 on Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:53 pm

Birdmond wrote:If Zack Thomas beats out Jack Del Rio we wasted money.

HEY!!! Don't you go bringing facts into this!!! Mad Razz Wink

Seriously, I was excited about the Del Rio signing. And then they drafted Zach and I was all like, "I remember him from that one game! He might be good!" But even *I* didn't expect him to literally drive Del Rio right out of the league as a player Shocked Shocked Shocked

I still have the newspaper clippings about that from my DolFan granddad (and so much more) BTW.

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by HalCHorn on Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:16 pm

Birdmond wrote:Walterfootball,  a know Dolphin hater gave the draft a B + as diid Pete Prisco.  I still would have preferred the trade down , possibly getting Lamp, Willis and McMillan but whatever.  

Yeah, I certainly would have picked up the phone if Atlanta called and offered the 3rd and 7th to move from 22 to 31.

Hal's alternate universe 'Fins draft, assuming we make that trade:

1 (31) Forrest Lamp
2 (54) Zach Cunningham
3 (95) Tankersley
3B (97) Trey Hendrickson
Wouldn't change doubling down on DT, taking Asiata (IMO we need two OGs), or taking Ford where we did
7B (249) Jadar Johnson

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by JMP on Mon May 01, 2017 8:54 am

I just think we left a lot of better, more talented players on the board at every pick - players that could have helped us more both now and into the future. As it stands, I don't feel like we're any closer to the Patriots today then we were on Wednesday last week...if anything, with the improvements New England has made, we may be further away.

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by DolFan 316 on Mon May 01, 2017 11:14 am

JMP wrote:I just think we left a lot of better, more talented players on the board at every pick - players that could have helped us more both now and into the future.  As it stands, I don't feel like we're any closer to the Patriots today then we were on Wednesday last week...if anything, with the improvements New England has made, we may be further away.

Couldn't have said it any better myself. The Pats had a better day one than the Fins without even making a pick, for one thing.

Also, I cannot recall seeing more players in a draft in general who like smacking around women or with injury concerns, or some other red flag if not multiple ones. Can't see myself getting back into the NFL any time soon.

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by JMP on Mon May 01, 2017 11:23 am

DolFan 316 wrote: Also, I cannot recall seeing more players in a draft in general who like smacking around women or with injury concerns, or some other red flag if not multiple ones. Can't see myself getting back into the NFL any time soon.

Yeah, there were a lot...and the Phins took one too:

[Davon] Godchaux got into some off-the-field trouble last season. He was arrested in the fall on misdemeanor counts of domestic abuse battery/child endangerment and false imprisonment. The district attorney declined to file charges against him.

http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_19d67e2c-2c55-11e7-af13-db70fe15a9c6.html

That's a huge issue - these guys continually get away with it because charges are dropped, and the cycle continues.


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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by DolFan 316 on Mon May 01, 2017 12:46 pm

I knew about Godcheaux already. These days I actually consider it a good draft from a character standpoint if a team only takes one obvious misogynist. Which is just sad on multiple levels.

And of course every GM who drafts one of those guys always yammers on about how they did their diligence, really they did (as if no other team even bothered to look at the guy) and throws in the obligatory "We take this sort of thing very seriously, honest!" IMO they're almost as much to blame as the players. If you knew you could engage in a certain behavior and not only get away with it but actually be rewarded for it, of course you'd keep doing it. Who wouldn't? That's just Human Nature 101. And fans don't help either with their "I don't care what Player X did, I just wanna watch FOOBAW!" attitude.

BTW remember Cecil Collins? Remember how everybody back then was like, "Even if he doesn't work out, he was still only a 5th round pick!" Even his DEFENDERS knew the guy was a criminal! Remember how silent those people all became when ol' Cecil couldn't even last one season without feeling the need to break into someone's house? Oh, and the Lawrence Phillips signing sure did work out well for JJ too, didn't it?

And here we are, 20 years later, with massive mountains of proof that constantly drafting/signing this type of player simply does not work, and teams STILL do it willingly. The only thing that's changed is that now at least they realize it's not a good look and churn out the PR drivel right away.

(Takes deep breath.) Okay, rant over. For now.

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by DolFan 316 on Mon May 01, 2017 12:49 pm

BTW if you want to read about someone genuinely turning his life around the right way, here's a story for you. Notice how it involves the player in question actually facing consequences for his actions--which didn't even include misogyny.

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/04/28/garett-bolles-family-that-gave-him-a-second-chance/

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by mercury22nathan on Mon May 01, 2017 2:08 pm

overall the draft seems a little underwhelming, but that might just be because it lacks any flashy players that got a ton of pre-draft hype. if at least three of these guys are solid starters within the next 2 seasons, then it was a solid draft on relative terms.

ask yourself this - how do you rank this draft in comparison with the Phins last 2 drafts that day after they were completed. i think i kind of feel their is more potential to contribute from top to bottom from this draft.

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by JMP on Mon May 01, 2017 3:17 pm

mercury22nathan wrote:
ask yourself this - how do you rank this draft in comparison with the Phins last 2 drafts that day after they were completed.

I'd say I have a pretty similar take on this draft compared to the last two. Overall, the players are probably slightly better overall this year (which is a good thing), but I still feel that most of the draft picks are destined to be career role players/situational players. I also can't shake the feeling that we missed out on a lot of talent - which is how I feel after every Dolphin draft. So overall, I don't think this draft is particularly better or worse than the past 2 years. One thing, though - I don't see a guy this year that I can point to and say "yeah, that's a future Pro Bowler". Last year we at least had Tunsil.

On the plus side, last year we drafted two players I immediately labeled as 'wasted picks' (Lucas and Duarte) whereas this year I only see one - Ford. I suppose that's progress?

Bottom line: I don't think this draft is going to make us significantly better either now or in the future.

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by JMP on Mon May 01, 2017 3:56 pm

I also think a lot of the players we drafted are one-dimensional:

Harris - good pass rusher, poor against the run
McMillan - good against the run, horrible in coverage
Tank - good in coverage, awful against the run
Asiata - good run blocker, not so good at pass pro

All rookies need to develop, but it just seems like all these guys have major holes in their game.



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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by Birdmond on Mon May 01, 2017 6:05 pm


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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by white1 on Tue May 02, 2017 9:40 am

That film work gives me hope on McMillan in coverage, especially against some talent that has an NFL future and was tearing up the college competition.

Asiata may have been a steal where we got him. Even if he only lasts 2-3 years, a starting caliber guard in the 5th is good value.

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by JMP on Tue May 02, 2017 10:01 am

I watched a couple of McMillan games from this last season after Bird mentioned him here, and I have to say that I was not really a fan. He's certainly not a bad player - he's very active and he's great at finding the ball. My concerns with him are: he seems to have trouble shedding blocks, he's a bit of an awkward tackler, and he sometimes looks lost in coverage. I do think he'll help our run defense a bit, but I see him as having a solid but average NFL career. There's nothing in his game that makes me think he can be a special player in any way. But - "solid" would be a big upgrade from the crappy LB play we've had for years in Miami. If Misi is healthy, I think McMillan may start the season as a backup.

People seem to be all over the map on Asiata. I saw him rated anywhere from a 2nd rounder to undrafted. People that don't like him think he's a one-dimensional mauler that can open holes in the running game but doesn't move well and sucks in pass pro. If that is the case, he may need some development before he earns a starting job. I think his status this season will depend on Poncey's health - if Pouncey plays, I see Larsen starting at LG with Asiata on the bench; if Pouncey doesn't play, Larsen moves to C and Asiata goes in at LG. We'll see. I do think there will be growing pains, but hopefully he can develop into an adequate starter down the road.

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by white1 on Tue May 02, 2017 10:14 am

I was out on a camping trip with my son and his cub scout pack this weekend, so I haven't given too much thought to the draft yet.

I will say this: I can't help but love these crazy bastards I really think they are going BPA and they don't care about the consequences. We took another receiver? We didn't draft a single safety? Clearly they stayed true to their board. Debate their board all you want, nobody has insight into how they stacked it at the end. But I don't see a single "reach" for need, and we have done that so many times over the years it makes me crazy.

We'll just have to see how these guys pan out, and how last year's class develops.

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Re: Overall thoughts

Post by JMP on Tue May 02, 2017 11:09 am

white1 wrote:
I will say this: I can't help but love these crazy bastards I really think they are going BPA and they don't care about the consequences.  We took another receiver? We didn't draft a single safety? Clearly they stayed true to their board.  Debate their board all you want, nobody has insight into how they stacked it at the end.  But I don't see a single "reach" for need, and we have done that so many times over the years it makes me crazy.

We'll just have to see how these guys pan out, and how last year's class develops.

To me it seems like they are targeting specific players. Last year, they had to trade up to get a couple of the players they wanted (Drake, Carroo), but this year most of the players they wanted fell right into their laps.

My problem with that strategy is that if you target a specific player with a pick, you may end up ignoring other, better players available at that spot. For example, I am not convinced in any way that McMillan and Tank were our best choices in rounds 2 or 3. But those are the guys the Phins wanted.

There's something to be said for getting players you target - that's a good thing. But it's not so good if you miss out on trade opportunities (as we did in round one) or pass on better players just because you are locked in on one player. The Dolphins made many of their picks almost instantly, letting hardly any time go off the clock. That tells me that they didn't seriously consider trade offers and they didn't seriously consider other players - they just saw their guy there and pulled the trigger right away. To me, that seems more like having blinders on than it does making a sound, well thought out decision. I guess it depends how you look at it.

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