Hickey vs. Tannenbaum and what could've been

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Hickey vs. Tannenbaum and what could've been

Post by mercury22nathan on Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:59 am

we all know Phillips has been a disappointment...

So, somehow, Jordan Phillips has gone from being one of the keys to the Dolphins’ defense this season to being the No. 3 defensive tackle behind a fifth-round rookie. For nine straight days, Phillips has played behind Godchaux, and it’s clearly the rookie’s job to lose at this point.

The Dolphins want Phillips not only to play with far more consistency, but also with more passion and effort. Not everyone in the building believes this will ever happen, we’re told, and his first two weeks of camp have been less than a rousing success: He lost his starting job to rookie Godchaux (who has been very good), committed two penalties in one practice, then had more penalties (one) than tackles (none) in the preseason opener.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article167180952.html

but this is what i found very interesting...

But Dolphins president/football operations Mike Tannenbaum, who advocated Phillips’ drafting (while then-general manager Dennis Hickey preferred Missouri guard Mitch Morse, who was picked before Phillips after Miami traded down with Morse on the board), wants to give Phillips at least one more year to prove his value.

Morse has gone on to start 31 of 31 games at C for the Chiefs.  imagine if you will had Hickey been allowed his pick...  the Phins would have their starting center in place without having to worry about when Pouncey breaks his hip again.  so what is the point of having a GM if Tannenbaum is going to over-rule him for less proficient players?

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Re: Hickey vs. Tannenbaum and what could've been

Post by JMP on Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:31 am

Damn, Mitch Morse would have been a great pick. Nice job, Tannenbaum. No

Phillips still has a chance to develop, and he's going to play a lot even if he's not the starter. I don't have much faith that he'll turn it around, but you never know. He has shown flashes at times, but more often than not he's just a body.

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Re: Hickey vs. Tannenbaum and what could've been

Post by white1 on Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:55 am

Hopefully this was just part of the poor dynamic in the building at the time. Hickey had no support in the building (or very little), being literally the regime's 7th choice, or something ridiculous.

I feel like Grier and Gase have just as much power as Tannenbaum. And he is secure enough in his role to let them draft the players they want.

But on this call.... yeah, Tannenbaum screwed the pooch in pushing for Phillips. Looks like a total bust. Mitigated by the pleasant surprise (to this point) of Godchaux. I've heard Vincent Taylor has been a nice surprise also, so it's possible coming out of 2017 we are at least set at DT for both starters and depth.

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Re: Hickey vs. Tannenbaum and what could've been

Post by JMP on Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:00 am

I'm not particularly impressed with either of Gase's drafts. While the power structure may work better than it has in the past, I'm still not convinced that we have the right talent evaluators in place.

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Re: Hickey vs. Tannenbaum and what could've been

Post by Birdmond on Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:14 am

JMP wrote:Damn, Mitch Morse would have been a great pick. Nice job, Tannenbaum. No

Phillips still has a chance to develop, and he's going to play a lot even if he's not the starter. I don't have much faith that he'll turn it around, but you never know. He has shown flashes at times, but more often than not he's just a body.

Problem is even if Phillips plays to his potential he's not the type of guy I'd give a second contract to. He seems like the kind of guy who once given the big money will start loafing again. Maybe it's a maturity issue but if Giodchaux AND Taylor start outperforming Phillips I'd trade him for whatever I can get.

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Re: Hickey vs. Tannenbaum and what could've been

Post by JMP on Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:24 am

Birdmond wrote:
Problem is even if Phillips plays to his potential  he's not the type of guy I'd give a second contract to.   He seems like the kind of guy who once given the big money will start loafing again.  Maybe it's a maturity issue but if  Giodchaux AND Taylor start outperforming Phillips I'd trade him for whatever I can get.  

Yep, that's a great point. Phillips definitely doesn't seem like the type of player you want to give big $ to.

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Re: Hickey vs. Tannenbaum and what could've been

Post by white1 on Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:23 pm

Trade him or release him outright.

If we have the depth at DT, don't waste more time on a player that has already reached his ceiling and will never improve any further.

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Re: Hickey vs. Tannenbaum and what could've been

Post by JMP on Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:57 pm

white1 wrote:Trade him or release him outright.  

If we have the depth at DT, don't waste more time on a player that has already reached his ceiling and will never improve any further.

I think you have to keep Phillips this year. Way too early to know what we have in the two rookies. I wasn't overly impressed with what I saw from Godchaux in the first game, but we'll see. Hopefully him and Taylor will continue to improve as the preseason goes along.

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Re: Hickey vs. Tannenbaum and what could've been

Post by white1 on Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:27 pm

I think you have to keep Phillips this year. Way too early to know what we have in the two rookies. I wasn't overly impressed with what I saw from Godchaux in the first game, but we'll see. Hopefully him and Taylor will continue to improve as the preseason goes along.

Agreed. Really no need to do anything this year with Phillips, still under rookie deal.

I'm expecting much improvement from Taylor and Godchaux. That's the thing with rookies, unless they are instant, obvious "busts" they always have upside because they are just starting out.

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Re: Hickey vs. Tannenbaum and what could've been

Post by JMP on Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:25 pm

white1 wrote:
I'm expecting much improvement from Taylor and Godchaux.  That's the thing with rookies, unless they are instant, obvious "busts" they always have upside because they are just starting out.

It depends. Some players just are what they are, and really don't have much upside beyond what they currently possess. The Dolphins have drafted too many of those types of players over the years.

I'm also very hesitant to count on unheralded players like Godchaux who have a good showing in practice. I've seen it far too many times in Miami: a player dominates in July and August, and then you never hear from them again. Maybe I'm still shell-shocked from all the years of ineptitude, but I just can't get excited about a young player anymore until I see him consistently produce when it counts.

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Re: Hickey vs. Tannenbaum and what could've been

Post by DolFan 316 on Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:25 pm

Phillips MUST be kept around no matter what.

The Fins will need him when Godcheaux goes down for the season. You all know it's coming.

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Re: Hickey vs. Tannenbaum and what could've been

Post by DolFan 316 on Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:33 pm

Speaking of Hickey, anybody else remember the infamous Small School Draft? In which the only two players left 3 years later who are contributing anything were out of...Tennessee and LSU? Oh, and Fede, can't forget about him (even though the media seems to have, I literally had to check if he was even still on the team. Nobody else from this draft was.)

http://pfref.com/tiny/IJWuO

And yet that draft looks good compared to the one after. So far. Maybe Parker will pull an Ajayi and break out.

http://pfref.com/tiny/dRTEM

BTW I thank God every day for PFR's Tiny URL feature. Seriously.

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Re: Hickey vs. Tannenbaum and what could've been

Post by JMP on Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:29 pm

Fede is a great example of what I'm talking about. Every year we hear how good he looks in the summer, and he even makes a play or two in preseason. Then the regular season starts...and nothing. A wasted roster spot for years...can't believe he's still on the team.

Hickey doesn't get enough credit for being awful. Man, those were some BAD drafts.

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Re: Hickey vs. Tannenbaum and what could've been

Post by Degarmo on Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:39 pm

To be quite honest though, we all knew Tannenbaum was running the show from the second he walked in the building, so this isn't surprising.

I would like the Fins to just one year, next year, let us here at the Cave do their draft.  It could not be any worse, and it will probably be better.  The only caveat is, no one from the Fins contact us AT ALL in regards to any picks in the draft.  We could get a solid draft accomplished, I'm 100 percent positive of it.  Hell, I firmly believe that we've got a far better scouting system in place with the people here than any of the scouting companies out there.

We should do a draft live one year with a bunch of us present, make the pick at the same time as the Phins (noting if we disagree with moving down or up and the player we wanted or reason why) and see how we fare against these morons.  

Then we can start a scouting agency and find out that the best way to be at the top of that game is to accept kickbacks from agents who want better coverage of their clients and for you to push their agenda, thus the reason so many terrible prospects are taken so highly in the draft . . . but I'm traipsing into a territory where DF316 and I start to spout Alex Jones-like conspiracy theories Wink
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Re: Hickey vs. Tannenbaum and what could've been

Post by DolFan 316 on Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:28 pm

Degarmo wrote:To be quite honest though, we all knew Tannenbaum was running the show from the second he walked in the building, so this isn't surprising.

I would like the Fins to just one year, next year, let us here at the Cave do their draft.  It could not be any worse, and it will probably be better.  The only caveat is, no one from the Fins contact us AT ALL in regards to any picks in the draft.  We could get a solid draft accomplished, I'm 100 percent positive of it.  Hell, I firmly believe that we've got a far better scouting system in place with the people here than any of the scouting companies out there.

We should do a draft live one year with a bunch of us present, make the pick at the same time as the Phins (noting if we disagree with moving down or up and the player we wanted or reason why) and see how we fare against these morons.  

Then we can start a scouting agency and find out that the best way to be at the top of that game is to accept kickbacks from agents who want better coverage of their clients and for you to push their agenda, thus the reason so many terrible prospects are taken so highly in the draft . . . but I'm traipsing into a territory where DF316 and I start to spout Alex Jones-like conspiracy theories Wink

It's posts like this one that makes me wish this site was able to adopt a likes counter.

Hell, Merc alone would ensure we'd draft at least good O-lineman every single year. I might even start watching college football again if I knew it would actually matter.

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Re: Hickey vs. Tannenbaum and what could've been

Post by Degarmo on Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:05 am

DolFan 316 wrote:

It's posts like this one that makes me wish this site was able to adopt a likes counter.

Firstly, thank you Smile.


DolFan 316 wrote:
Hell, Merc alone would ensure we'd draft at least good O-lineman every single year. I might even start watching college football again if I knew it would actually matter.

Secondly, between Merc and Bird, we'd have the trenches set.
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