Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

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Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by mercury22nathan on Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:41 am

Privately, however, the people who run this team recognize there’s serious trouble afoot. And that trouble might not be resolvable this season.

The problems are so acute that even as we’ve just reached the quarter-pole of the 2017 season, there have been internal mutterings about refitting the offense in 2018.

...it has already been spoken about among the team’s braintrust.

Now consider the problem the public doesn’t see as in ... missed assignments, players suddenly showing age, players regressing.

“We don’t know how to fix it immediately,” one source told me recently.

There is no apparent answer because the problems are not necessarily manageable in-season.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article178226946.html

more...

On any given play a wide receiver will run a pattern he apparently just dreamed up a second before the snap instead of the one in the playbook.

On any given play an offensive lineman will block someone he wasn’t supposed to and leave the defensive lineman he was supposed to block to run unblocked at Cutler.

Core players such as Jarvis Landry, Julius Thomas, Laremy Tunsil, Jermon Bushrod, and Ja’Wuan James have blown assignments.

Tunsil is like a rookie all over again in moving to LT.  Bushrod has lost what little he had left.  James has always been hot and cold.  And Pouncey is done - overcome with age, injuries and lack of practice.  Steen is what he is and shouldn't even be relied on to be starter in the first place.

Landry realizing he won't get paid in Miami has checked out...

Despite what seems like a solid day for Landry, the fact is he flubbed routes at least twice that I saw. One time, Anthony Fasano can be seen on tape yelling and motioning at Landry because the WR was running up the sideline when he was actually supposed to cut in across the field. Cutler, expecting Landry to be there, simply threw the ball into the dirt when the receiver wasn’t where he was supposed to be.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article178086401.html

Stills, who got paid, has quit and Parker can't stay healthy - and did i mention there is no worthy pass catching TE on the roster.

the offense needs a total rebuild.

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Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense

Post by white1 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:51 am

So, reading between the lines on the following blog post from Mando, I drew these conclusions:


  • Players that have been coached on assignments (routes and blocking schemes) since the Spring of 2016, are still too often blowing these assignments.
  • The current coaching staff and front office is NOT IN ANY WAY confident these issues can be "fixed" mid-season.
  • It is highly likely the PLAYERS will be blamed for the poor offense, if current trend continues.


Given these conclusions, if they prove out to be true, we are looking at a total revamp of the offense next offseason.  Highly likely Landry walks.  Parker I think is still on his rookie deal, but no way he gets an early contract.  Julius Thomas, barring a miracle turnaround, goes one and done in Miami.  Stills has to stay because of his contract.  I think he's fixable, part of what may be going wrong is the Tannehill chemistry with him is now replaced by Cutler, and there's none there.

Clearly, the offensive line will be overhauled in some manner.  This should be interesting, because we also need a long-term line coach.  Will we stay with a zone blocking scheme or look to get more physical to leverage Ajayi?

We will need to decide if we are a power running team that works off play action, or if we are a finesse team built on quick and accurate throws.  Honestly, my assessment is the team would be better with road grading guards, asking Tannehill to work off play action and passes thrown on the move - both big strengths for him.  If we revamp further looking for an offense to be run by Peyton Manning... well, that's a huge mistake.  Given the rep Gase brings with him, and echoed by various sources including former players, I can't see him insist on building an offense that doesn't  match the player strengths.  

In any case, it's clear this offseason was a clean MISS on upgrading where we needed to upgrade.  Specifically, we failed to address Guard, Tight End, and we left our QB depth chart dangerously thin.  I could split hairs on Center, but I don't blame the team necessarily for investing time in Tunsil at LT (that makes total sense) and James at RT (why not still rookie deal).  

The QB mistake was nearly unforgivable with the known risk of what Tannehill did to try and fix the knee.  Cutler has always been average at best.  Joining a new team mid-August was probably just too much to ask.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article178226946.html


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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by JMP on Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:12 am

So the coaches don't trust the players, and the players don't trust the coaches. This is a disaster. The Dolphins are an embarrassment at every level. Embarassed

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by JMP on Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:15 am

Another wasted season. The offensive guru installed an offense that doesn't work, and the front office couldn't bring in the right players...and now we're supposed to have blind faith that next year will be better. Ah, the life of a Dolphins fan..."just wait till next year" is our motto. The problem is, "next year" never comes. No

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by JMP on Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:37 am

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by JMP on Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:38 am

One thing to consider: where/how does Tannehill fit in if we go with an entirely new offense???

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by Umix10 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:38 pm

Imho......Tannehill doesn't fit!!! Get Cousins

Cutler is clearly the issue! No matter what. Let Moorep play. Couldn't get any worse. Chemistry wise the players responded to him last year. He's had success with less then what cutler has. Let Moore play. He has more respect from the locker room then cutler

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by white1 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:43 pm

IMO Cousins over Tannehill does not solve a few major issues:

- What is the identity of our offense? Last year we "changed" after week 4 to a power running team, which allowed us to play off a number of angles - including play action and rollouts, and designed QB runs. Is that who we are? Need to decide FIRST, before we make a change or stay the same at QB.

- What are we going to do about the offensive line? If we want to use the same scheme, need to find the right line coach to implement. Then determine which players fit, and which don't. At the very least, everyone outside Tunsil goes under the microscope. Including Pouncey because only the team knows how well he is really playing, and what is long term medical future looks like.

- We need at least one TE, and maybe two. I'm assuming Gray sticks because why not? He's cheap. Fasano is really old. Julius Thomas, yes he is done.

- What do we do at wide receiver? Stills stays, probably Parker too. I'm thinking Landry goes, and he is the primary target in the existing offense. Who replaces him? And who plays in the slot?

So you're looking at G, T, maybe C, WR and TE needs. At least. Possibly a QB. In one offseason. And the defense gets nothing while probably needing a LB.

Yeah. Pretty bad.



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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by JMP on Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:19 pm

Given all the needs and the cap situation, it probably doesn't make sense to re-sign Landry. Maybe if we hadn't given Stills so much money, but at this point I just don't think we can afford Landry. That totally sucks, but it is what it is.

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by finfanatic on Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:01 pm

I do not know what is wrong, but it is apparent there is SOMETHING wrong.

This in no way shape or form resembles last year's squad.

Something is afoot in Miami, and I am beginning to wonder if Gase can fix it.

Might have to wipe the slate clean and start all over.


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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by DolFan 316 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:27 pm

Umix10 wrote:Imho......Tannehill doesn't fit!!! Get Cousins

Cutler is clearly the issue! No matter what.  Let Moorep play.  Couldn't get any worse.  Chemistry wise the players responded to him last year.  He's had success with less then what cutler has.  Let Moore play.  He has more respect from the locker room then cutler

You're gonna blame Cutler for everyone else apparently doing their job horribly on purpose?!?! Seriously?!?! Shocked Shocked Shocked

white1 wrote:IMO Cousins over Tannehill does not solve a few major issues:

- What is the identity of our offense? Last year we "changed" after week 4 to a power running team, which allowed us to play off a number of angles - including play action and rollouts, and designed QB runs.  Is that who we are? Need to decide FIRST, before we make a change or stay the same at QB.

- What are we going to do about the offensive line? If we want to use the same scheme, need to find the right line coach to implement.  Then determine which players fit, and which don't.  At the very least, everyone outside Tunsil goes under the microscope.  Including Pouncey because only the team knows how well he is really playing, and what is long term medical future looks like.

- We need at least one TE, and maybe two.  I'm assuming Gray sticks because why not? He's cheap.  Fasano is really old.  Julius Thomas, yes he is done.

- What do we do at wide receiver? Stills stays, probably Parker too.  I'm thinking Landry goes, and he is the primary target in the existing offense.  Who replaces him? And who plays in the slot?

So you're looking at G, T, maybe C, WR and TE needs.  At least.  Possibly a QB.  In one offseason.  And the defense gets nothing while probably needing a LB.  

Yeah.  Pretty bad.

Look on the bright side, at least the same guys who put the team in this mess will be doing the drafting and FA signing Razz

JMP wrote:Given all the needs and the cap situation, it probably doesn't make sense to re-sign Landry.  Maybe if we hadn't given Stills so much money, but at this point I just don't think we can afford Landry.  That totally sucks, but it is what it is.

At this point I don't even care that Landry will be a Patriot next season. They've already won more than enough titles without him and have a free pass to the playoffs every year, so what's the difference? He wants to whine and sulk about the Fins not breaking the cap just for him and his historically low yards per catch average? There's the door.

finfanatic wrote:I do not know what is wrong, but it is apparent there is SOMETHING wrong.

This in no way shape or form resembles last year's squad.

Something is afoot in Miami, and I am beginning to wonder if Gase can fix it.

Might have to wipe the slate clean and start all over.

I still say the players have become convinced Gase is a racist and are rebelling against him in the most passive-aggressive way possible because that's just how millennials roll. It would explain so much and be so typical.

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by Umix10 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:27 pm

white1 wrote:IMO Cousins over Tannehill does not solve a few major issues.....

I think Cousins is the type of QB that Gase's offense is built around. I honestly think he did more last year with less talent. Except OL. Miami QB's were sacked 30 times last year. Cousins 23.

Here's some stats

Passing Yards - Cousins: 4917; Miami: 3716
Running Back TGT's - Washington: 70; Miami: 88
TD/INT - Cousins: 25/12; Miami: 27/15 (Tannehill 19/12)
QBR - Cousins:97.2; Tannehill 93.5
Total QBR - Cousins 71.7; Tannehill 54.6

I think Cousins has what it takes. I think given the right circumstance in Miami he would have more upside then Tannehill.

OL is then only issue that needs to be fixed first. Everything else bleeds off of that

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by DolFan 316 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:29 pm

This is going to seem really really weird to you guys but...I actually find it refreshing that someone actually, finally admitted they have no answers to a problem instead of the usual "you people are idiots for daring to question us!" routine. It's about time someone told us what we already know instead of taking us for fools.

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by DolFan 316 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:31 pm

Umix10 wrote:
white1 wrote:IMO Cousins over Tannehill does not solve a few major issues.....

I think Cousins is the type of QB that Gase's offense is built around.  I honestly think he did more last year with less talent.  Except OL.  Miami QB's were sacked 30 times last year.  Cousins 23.

Here's some stats

Passing Yards - Cousins: 4917; Miami: 3716
Running Back TGT's - Washington: 70; Miami: 88
TD/INT - Cousins: 25/12; Miami: 27/15 (Tannehill 19/12)
QBR - Cousins:97.2; Tannehill 93.5
Total QBR - Cousins 71.7;  Tannehill 54.6

I think Cousins has what it takes.  I think given the right circumstance in Miami he would have more upside then Tannehill.  

OL is then only issue that needs to be fixed first.  Everything else bleeds off of that

There's also this tiny little issue of Tannehill coming off two major knee injuries in less than a year's time at age 30, a time when even the most mobile QBs in NFL history have slowed down drastically, and being the type of player who's average at best when he can't/doesn't use his legs.

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by Umix10 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:35 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:
Umix10 wrote:Imho......Tannehill doesn't fit!!! Get Cousins

Cutler is clearly the issue! No matter what.  Let Moorep play.  Couldn't get any worse.  Chemistry wise the players responded to him last year.  He's had success with less then what cutler has.  Let Moore play.  He has more respect from the locker room then cutler

You're gonna blame Cutler for everyone else apparently doing their job horribly on purpose?!?! Seriously?!?! Shocked Shocked Shocked

I blame Cutler for sure. It's a chemistry thing for me. Just my opinion but, have we had these problems last year? More importantly was it made public? Gase brought Cutler in because he didn't wanna run Ajayi all the time! So enter Cutler, who is the hammer to Gase's offense. I've never seen Moore or Tannehill run a no huddle offense down to the last second, have you? Were we this disorganized last year? All I know is that last 2 times Moore played because the QB got hurt he did pretty well. The players responded to his style. The players aren't responding to Cutler. Maybe it's his style, maybe it's his communication style or maybe he just aint it....... Sorry

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by HalCHorn on Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:44 pm

While Harris has shown some promise, and might succeed, I still would have traded down from 22 in order to get extra picks and address O-line earlier than round 5 and TE at some point in this draft.

I'd probably pass on a massive contract for Cousins and draft a QB early. Jackson, Allen, Rudolph...the first two are likely to be there when we pick, Rudolph might even make it to round two as deep as the position is.
WR is also going to be deep again next year.

This really looks awful right now, but it actually looked even worse last year after week 5. This schedule is a lot tougher, so I'm not expecting any playoff spot. Sadly, 7-9 looks like the likely result IMO.

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by JMP on Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:52 pm

Bottom line for me: if veteran players are continually making mistakes, it's on the coaches. It's the coaches' job to have the players prepared...and clearly, that's not happening. You can't tell me that guys like Stills and Landry are all of a sudden bums...I'm just not buying it. My gut tells me that Dolphin practices are a joke - that's certainly how it seems every week, when the team shows up completely unprepared and apparently no one knows what to do (at least on offense).

To me, this entire offensive disaster is on Gase. He runs the offense, and he hand-picked our 3 worst players: Cutler, Bushrod and Thomas. Gase can try to pass blame all he wants, but this is his mess and he needs to figure out how to clean it up. Cutler is a HUGE part of the problem - he absolutely sucks. But again, that's on Gase.

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by Umix10 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:43 am

I agree JMP, the fact that i haven’t mentioned Gase is that I think Gase fell in love with the idea that Cutler was running his offense. Gase got what he could with Tannehill. It’s a shame that Tannehill got hurt. The fact that Gase is getting the complete opposite result of what he envisioned with Cutler is unfathomable. The fact that Gase is stubborn and won’t admit that a change at QB could be better is foolish!!

The downside is Gase is all in on Cutler. If he backs.up and let’s Moore play he loses.....if Moore plays his ass off he loses more but more importantly he loses the lockerroom. I thought Gase had a pretty good manner when came to coaching but clearly he is young and too arrogant for this position. He admittedly said if players aren’t getting it done then he would find someone who would. It seems that it only applies if you weren’t lobbied to be here by the coach himself. Because he will lose all credibility

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by scotgif on Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:49 am

I'm telling you, it will shake out this way: Soon, and I mean in the next 2 to 3 weeks, Cutler will get "dinged up" and have to come out of the game. Knowing Cutler, he will milk it for everything it is worth and all of a sudden he will be listed as day to day and then BOOM, sprained something or other, needs season-ending surgery. Gase will not want to admit his mistake in pushing for Cutler. I think "injury" will be the easy way out.
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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by DolFan 316 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:44 am

scotgif wrote:I'm telling you, it will shake out this way: Soon, and I mean in the next 2 to 3 weeks, Cutler will get "dinged up" and have to come out of the game. Knowing Cutler, he will milk it for everything it is worth and all of a sudden he will be listed as day to day and then BOOM, sprained something or other, needs season-ending surgery.

So in other words, the same thing that happens to Fins players every season Laughing

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by mercury22nathan on Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:16 am

JMP wrote:Bottom line for me: if veteran players are continually making mistakes, it's on the coaches.  It's the coaches' job to have the players prepared...and clearly, that's not happening.  You can't tell me that guys like Stills and Landry are all of a sudden bums...

so i was thinking about this... WRs running incorrect routes and O-linemen missing blocking assignments can't just come out of the blue, can it? these are the same plays that these guys have been practicing since last May and all through training camp. were these same mistakes happening all throughout training camp, but the coaches ignored it? it seems inconceivable that the offense was operating just fine until the season started. the coaches had to have seen this coming, right?

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by JMP on Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:34 am

mercury22nathan wrote:
JMP wrote:Bottom line for me: if veteran players are continually making mistakes, it's on the coaches.  It's the coaches' job to have the players prepared...and clearly, that's not happening.  You can't tell me that guys like Stills and Landry are all of a sudden bums...

so i was thinking about this...  WRs running incorrect routes and O-linemen missing blocking assignments can't just come out of the blue, can it?  these are the same plays that these guys have been practicing since last May and all through training camp.  were these same mistakes happening all throughout training camp, but the coaches ignored it?  it seems inconceivable that the offense was operating just fine until the season started.  the coaches had to have seen this coming, right?

That's why I'd love to know what happens in practice during the week. If the players aren't "getting it" in practice, then the coaches need to change what they're doing. But - if the players are fine in practice and then screwing up in the game, I don't know what to say...that would be a mystery.

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by white1 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:44 am

I read an anecdotal story from another team, and I won't say their name, that approaches the problem like this.

A receiver (let's say a new one), steps on the practice field and runs the wrong route, or asks a question about the playcall because they don't know the route. The staff sends him back inside to study - basically saying you don't know this? You better learn it.


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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by JMP on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:08 pm

white1 wrote:I read an anecdotal story from another team, and I won't say their name, that approaches the problem like this.

A receiver (let's say a new one), steps on the practice field and runs the wrong route, or asks a question about the playcall because they don't know the route.  The staff sends him back inside to study - basically saying you don't know this? You better learn it.


Sure, for a new player that makes sense. But at some point, if veteran players that have been in the system for a year or more are continuing to make mistakes, that may be (and probably is) an indication that what you're asking them to do simply isn't working. At that point, you need to change what you're asking of the players. To turn an old adage around: if it's broke, fix it.

And "fixing it" doesn't have to be dumbing it down - it could just be doing something different. Be creative, not closed-minded.

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Re: Front Office Rumblings: Punt on our Offense + Dolphins have already given up on the season

Post by Umix10 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:34 pm

I agree with you Merc....this problem from Landry and others running wrong routes is not coming out of the blue. Landry is a very talented pass catcher. He's not fast but quick so his route tree is limited. He knows that he has to be crafty, know where his route tops out, knows his break spots but especially where his route is going. Highly unlikely, the ultra competitive Landry doesn't know what he's doing. He's a pro bowler.

The point being is......what changed from last year to this year. Cutler for one. The key to Miami's offensive woes is a couple things. 1) Gase's arrogance in Cutler and 2) Gase's attitude with Cutler.

1) Gase's arrogance in Cutler - Gase wants to believe he is a QB Guru. When Gase was hired he was considered a QB Guru. His body of work? Sir Peyton Manning and Cutler!!!!! If you consider that his greatest accomplishment wasn't Manning but Cutlers rise from below average to average, then coaching Manning only heightened the Cutler achievement. I think this aspect is more about Gase proving that he is a good coach. The downside is that he didn't think that Cutler was going to do this bad. Let just be honest. This is the most talented Skill position Dolphins team in years. There was a case for optimism but not for realism.

2)Gase's Attitude with Cutler-I get it. Each player is a pro. They learn the offense. Last year we started off bad because they started running fast pace/no huddle. They stopped around week 5 and felt they were out of sync. The results this year is the same as the results last year. Flat, uninspiring, and loser football. He stuck with Tannehill, but what he did was slow it down. Not because of Tannehill but for the whole offensive unit. We have been in the same offense now for 2 years. The question is........Is the offens that complicated that even pro's don't get it? It's communication, I've watched all 4 games again. They don't huddle and it's Gase to Cutler and then Cutler directing traffic. I ask you, How can Cutler direct traffic using little verbal cues to players he's only played with for essentially 4 or 5 weeks. Tannehill and Landry have been together for almost 4 years. The fact that Gase can't figure it out about Cutler is beyond me. To think you can coach Shane Falco to be Tom Brady after only coaching him for 1 season is stooooooooopid....To think that Gase has an attitude that he and Cutler will shake up the football world is beyond me. Changing from Cutler to Moore is the greatest thing that could happen because it will shake off the Cutler Goggles and in turn loosen his grip on his Cutler man crush

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