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The purge

Post by CarsonChris on Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:18 pm

Miami is due for a total rebuild. Sounds like Suh won’t be re-signed. Parker is fragile. Landry won’t run routes. Tannehill is broken. Tunsil has the IDGF attitude. This team is due for a rebuild!

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Re: The purge

Post by JMP on Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:39 pm

The way Suh's contract is setup, it would be almost impossible to cut him or trade him till 2020...the cap hit would be too big. Just a terrible contract.

I think Landry will be playing somewhere else next season.

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Re: The purge

Post by DolFan 316 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:24 am

JMP wrote:The way Suh's contract is setup, it would be almost impossible to cut him or trade him till 2020...the cap hit would be too big.  Just a terrible contract.

That's what I thought too. But apparently...

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article181567036.html

Suh, who is signed through 2020, has a $26 million cap hit next season. If the Dolphins released him before June 1, it would be $22.2 million.

If Miami released him with a post-June 1 designation, his 2018 cap hit would be $9.1 million, with a $13.1 million hit for 2019. He would then be off Miami’s books.

The idea of this being Suh's final season as a Fin seems to be gaining steam. Not sure how I feel about that yet, but it can't be denied that he hasn't solved any problems.

IMO there is now a power struggle between Gase and the front orifice--I mean office, with Gase finally realizing just how much they've handicapped him.

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Re: The purge

Post by JMP on Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:10 am

DolFan 316 wrote:
JMP wrote:The way Suh's contract is setup, it would be almost impossible to cut him or trade him till 2020...the cap hit would be too big.  Just a terrible contract.

That's what I thought too. But apparently...

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article181567036.html

Suh, who is signed through 2020, has a $26 million cap hit next season. If the Dolphins released him before June 1, it would be $22.2 million.

If Miami released him with a post-June 1 designation, his 2018 cap hit would be $9.1 million, with a $13.1 million hit for 2019. He would then be off Miami’s books.

The idea of this being Suh's final season as a Fin seems to be gaining steam. Not sure how I feel about that yet, but it can't be denied that he hasn't solved any problems.

IMO there is now a power struggle between Gase and the front orifice--I mean office, with Gase finally realizing just how much they've handicapped him.

Unless something drastically changes with the cap, I don't see how the Phins can absorb $9+ million in dead money in 2018 - they're already right at the cap (just under $7 million in cap space), and even if they cut players that only means having to fill more holes and spend more $. It also creates a huge, gaping hole in the middle of the defense. I just don't think it makes any sense at this stage.

It was a bad contract right from the start, but I think you have to live with it a couple more years.

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Re: The purge

Post by mercury22nathan on Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:58 am

if we're purging, can we finally move on from Pouncey?

Coming into Week 9, center Mike Pouncey had been one of the league’s best pass-blocking center but one of the worst in run-blocking -- a trend that continued in Baltimore. For the season, Pouncey’s pass-blocking grade of 80.2 ranks third for among all centers but his run-blocking grade of 46.5 ranks 26th.

It is also worth noting that this has been the worst run-blocking year in Pouncey’s career.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article181463751.html

to be an effective o-linemen, don't ya kind of have to be able to do both pass and run blocking?

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Re: The purge

Post by white1 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:01 am

Agree this makes no sense.

Why do the Fins seem to be in such a rush to push a talented player out the door? This isn't the first time either. Marshall, Wallace, Vontae Davis, Sean Smith just to name a few off the top of my head.

I get he's expensive, but he's also playing extremely well. Our defense would be worlds better if we had an offense somewhere north of worse in the league.

The game is ACQUIRE talent, not dump the talent you have, while trying to mitigate the dead money cap hit in the process.

Clueless. This team is clueless.

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Re: The purge

Post by JMP on Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:03 am

mercury22nathan wrote:if we're purging, can we finally move on from Pouncey?
[

I'd love to, but my guess is the Phins will keep him. They don't seem to give a damn about fixing the OL.

In fact, Gase thinks the OL is doing great. The problems we're experiencing on offense have nothing to do with the OL (or Cutler) - it's all on Ajayi and Landry, apparently. Rolling Eyes

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Re: The purge

Post by JMP on Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:13 am

white1 wrote:Agree this makes no sense.

Why do the Fins seem to be in such a rush to push a talented player out the door? This isn't the first time either.  Marshall, Wallace, Vontae Davis, Sean Smith just to name a few off the top of my head.

I get he's expensive, but he's also playing extremely well.  Our defense would be worlds better if we had an offense somewhere north of worse in the league.

The game is ACQUIRE talent, not dump the talent you have, while trying to mitigate the dead money cap hit in the process.

Clueless.  This team is clueless.

I would never have signed Suh to that deal in the first place, but that's done. He's on the team and it is what it is.

Suh just happens to be the best player on the entire team, and there's no reason to add an enormous dead-cap hit by cutting him...it just makes no sense. You can argue what type of impact he's actually had on the team, but that's a moot point given the Phins' cap situation and the way the deal is structured. This isn't the Bills dumping Dareus (a team cancer) and absorbing a ginormous cap hit that they'll barely even feel because they have a ton of cap space.

Now, if this season spirals out of control and Suh continues to act like a piece of shit as he did against Baltimore, maybe this discussion changes. But right now - the idea of dumping Suh is just not an option, on several levels.

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Re: The purge

Post by white1 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:40 am

Yes, that's exactly the point.

The Suh contract is done and there's no going back. Don't make it worse by turning the contract into a bunch of dead money, while adding a hole at DT that we'll have to fill with a lesser player.

Instead of dumping him, shed salary elsewhere and try and trade away players for draft picks. Stock the roster with players on rookie deals, that will help the cap in a big way.

It's really a shame that Tannehill got hurt. We need to make a decision on him one way or the other. A rookie QB is another way you can get well on the salary cap also. Paying Tannehill $20 million while still not knowing if he's got a future in Miami is not helping.

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Re: The purge

Post by mercury22nathan on Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:33 am

white1 wrote:...trade away players for draft picks.

but that is the exact opposite of Tannenbaum's M.O. he's always looking to dump draft picks for other team's cast offs.

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Re: The purge

Post by JMP on Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:45 am

mercury22nathan wrote:
white1 wrote:...trade away players for draft picks.

but that is the exact opposite of Tannenbaum's M.O.  he's always looking to dump draft picks for other team's cast offs.

Yep, absolutely - Tannenbaum specializes in trading picks away, not acquiring them. Look at the Stephone Anthony trade...we gave up a 5th for a player that hasn't even been active yet.

And the other issue is, who do we have to trade? Landry is really the only good player that doesn't have a huge contract - and since he's due to become a FA any team we trade him to will have to show him the money in the offseason anyway, which lessens his value on the trade market. I don't see any other tradeable pieces on this team - unless you're looking at getting a 6th or 7th round pick in return, in which case why even bother?

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Re: The purge

Post by scotgif on Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:02 pm

Seems to me, we have been through too many "purges" in the last decade. That's what bad organizations do, change regimes and entire rosters every 3-4 years, due to the poor results of each Front office, coaching staff and roster. Include scouting department in this. Have we ever really purged this?

The good organizations draft well and replace aging vets with cheaper, younger talent that they actually develop for one or two years. Pittsburgh, Dallas, New England, Seattle, come to mind. The shitshows like, yes, The Dolphins, The jills, jests, browns, 49ers, bungles keep "purging". With the exception of Marvin Lewis in Cinn, who must have incriminating photos.

Just blame everyone and everything EXCEPT the organization for the failures of the team. On the other hand, it makes no sense to keep an inept organization, but if each "purge" gives you the same unsuccessful, bumbling results, then look to the top. Hello Mr. Ross.
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Re: The purge

Post by JMP on Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:06 pm

Great post, scot - nailed it.

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Re: The purge

Post by white1 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:35 pm

Seems to me, we have been through too many "purges" in the last decade. That's what bad organizations do, change regimes and entire rosters every 3-4 years, due to the poor results of each Front office, coaching staff and roster. Include scouting department in this. Have we ever really purged this?

The good organizations draft well and replace aging vets with cheaper, younger talent that they actually develop for one or two years.

I agree with this, and I'll take a slightly different tack on it.

We've purged front office execs, we've purged head coaches, hell in an effort to save Philbin we purged coordinators.

Every time you sweep out the old regime and bring in somebody new, in comes the new schemes and ultimately a revelation that many of the players on the roster don't match the new system. In this process, even good, contributing players are swept out the door.

Given that, my instinct is to accept the coming roster purge on offense. If the players don't fit or aren't performing, or can't perform, sweep them out and bring in the new through both free agency and the draft.

I can honestly look at our offense and say there is not one player we can't do without. Not one. Think of that! Of course we won't replace all 11, and I'm sure all 11 aren't totally useless, so that's an extreme. But we could literally dump and replace anyone we choose, and if the new players brought in are the right guys, we will improve on offense.

My point is, if you need to swap out what seems like a high number of players, well go ahead and try it. Because a new regime is going to cost you that anyways, and likely more.

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Re: The purge

Post by Birdmond on Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:57 pm

I think the Suh stories were nothing more than click bait. He acts up a little on Thursday Night Football and these stories magically appear.

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Re: The purge

Post by JMP on Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:58 pm

white1 wrote:

I can honestly look at our offense and say there is not one player we can't do without.  Not one.  Think of that! Of course we won't replace all 11, and I'm sure all 11 aren't totally useless, so that's an extreme.  But we could literally dump and replace anyone we choose, and if the new players brought in are the right guys, we will improve on offense.

My point is, if you need to swap out what seems like a high number of players, well go ahead and try it.  Because a new regime is going to cost you that anyways, and likely more.

I would say that Landry is as close to a keeper as we have. Not that he's great, but he is the focal point of the passing game and he comes up with tons of clutch catches. You get rid of him, and you're getting rid of the #1 target for the offense. Who replaces him? Certainly not Stills, Parker, Carroo or Grant. So now you are relying on a rookie or another team's free agent castoff. I absolutely think Landry will be playing elsewhere in 2018, but his loss will create a HUGE hole on offense - no way around that.

As for an offensive roster purge, that should have been done year one when Gase arrived. The fact that in year 3 we'll have to hit the reset button on the offense means that Gase failed - miserably.

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Re: The purge

Post by Degarmo on Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:13 am

I don't believe we've once done it the correct way under Ross, which is to burn it to the ground, hire a new GM, and let him hire everyone else.
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Re: The purge

Post by CarsonChris on Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:05 am

Degarmo wrote:I don't believe we've once done it the correct way under Ross, which is to burn it to the ground, hire a new GM, and let him hire everyone else.

Agreed

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Re: The purge

Post by JMP on Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:40 am

Degarmo wrote:I don't believe we've once done it the correct way under Ross, which is to burn it to the ground, hire a new GM, and let him hire everyone else.

EXactly. And for God's sake, get a new scouting department!!!!

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Re: The purge

Post by DolFan 316 on Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:51 am

Welp, looks like The Purge has already begun.

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Re: The purge

Post by Degarmo on Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:28 pm

JMP wrote:
Degarmo wrote:I don't believe we've once done it the correct way under Ross, which is to burn it to the ground, hire a new GM, and let him hire everyone else.

EXactly.  And for God's sake, get a new scouting department!!!!

I'm reasonably sure the Dolphins use one of the scouting agencies, which are nothing but shills for corporations that are in it for the advertising bucks.
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Re: The purge

Post by DolFan 316 on Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:31 pm

Degarmo wrote:I'm reasonably sure the Dolphins use one of the scouting agencies, which are nothing but shills for corporations that are in it for the advertising bucks.

They can still bring in different people at least. Every NFL team as far as I know uses a scouting agency. yet some teams clearly draft better than others.

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Re: The purge

Post by Degarmo on Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:59 pm

Listen, Tannenbaum has shown that he can take a team to the AFC Championship twice with the loaded talent he provided the Jets.

That's exactly what he said to Ross, with a change of pronouns to first person, of course.
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Re: The purge

Post by finfanatic on Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:14 pm

Some very strange moves for sure.

And I am not sure that all the moves are finished.

Hard to say what is going on.


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Re: The purge

Post by Degarmo on Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:15 pm

finfanatic wrote:Some very strange moves for sure.  

And I am not sure that all the moves are finished.

Hard to say what is going on.


Everything I'm about to say is opinion, obviously, but . . .

This feels really familiar. A coach who made his hay with a very good QB, got one year out of a mediocre QB (Cutler), is dubbed a genius offensive coordinator, gets hired by the Dolphins. He has a hard time with some personalities, shows a stunning lack of ability to identify glaring issues (Dallas Thomas and that other bag of crap), feels his RB is being too mouthy, promises an up-tempo offense with more big chunk plays which very rarely happens except for when Tannehill goes off plan, has issues with clock/timeout management (like strangely calling timeout in the Chargers game where he essentially allowed them a chance to win - which they should have - that game), and a seemingly meandering, WTF offensive scheme. Then, in the second year, things start to fall apart, stars start to become quite agitated, he starts to lose the locker room . . .

I'm just waiting for the next Bullygate-type thing to happen. Oh wait, it kind of did with Snorts Foerster.

It's fuckin' Groundhog Day, man.
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Re: The purge

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