Dolphins D regressing

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Dolphins D regressing

Post by mercury22nathan on Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:40 am

so Mando has an article trying to explain why the Phins defense seems to be getting worse. and like most of his articles of thie vein, it doesn't really ever offer any explanation, but rather only points out the problems without any reasons. nonetheless, there are two things - one i want to point out and the other i'm not sure i understand.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article183611661.html

The Dolphins D has actually earned a big, fat F the past three games after allowing a total of 81 points in that span.

The New York Giants have given up 85 points.

The San Francisco 49ers have given up 86 points.

The Denver Broncos, Joseph’s team, have given up 101 points.

And then comes the Dolphins’ defense, tied with Oakland, at 81 points allowed in that span.

my first point. WHAT THE HELL? the Broncos?!?! wait, didn't they recently win Super Bowl based largely on a dominant defense? guys like Von Miller, Marshall and Talib are still there, right? what changed? oh yea, Vance Joseph is running the system. and lest we not forget, the Phins are still running Joseph's system too. how's that working out?

but perhaps another common theme here - all of those teams have horrible offenses (except maybe Oakland - who was without their QB and haven't been nearly as lights-out as they were last year). which leads me too my question...

I think the Dolphins defense is built weird.

This defense is built around the defensive line.

And the Miami defensive line being solid but not dominant is not a dividend payment.

This defense is built to play from in front. It is built for when a desperate offense must pass. Then the line can attack and the big corners and the fleet linebackers can cover for the couple of seconds until the linemen get to the quarterback.

Sounds good in theory but in practice it hasn’t worked because the Dolphins rarely enjoy leads late enough for that to be a factor.

is Mando trying to say the defense is bad because the offense sucks? while i agree that contributes to it, i don't think that's the whole story. the offense had nothing to do with the way Baltimore ran the ball at will. the offense had nothing to do with the way Carr was able to hit wide open receivers and TEs. or the way the defense has allowed some very mediocre QBs to have pro bowl caliber games. or the way the Phins only have 3 interceptions - none of which coming from our starting outside CBs.

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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by JEGnj on Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:49 am

How about the O sucks so bad it now has affected the D. Getting field position, turnovers, and stops just to have the O go 3 and out and have to get right back on the field is demoralizing.
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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by scotgif on Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:53 am

I think fans (not all) vastly overrated the D the fist few games of the year because they were keeping us in games. Yes, they did have some very good stretches, but were far from dominant. We have not had a consistent pass rush all year, and have not been able to get off the field on 3rd down enough. 

Yes, the lack of offense greatly plays into the D having to be on the field too long, but stop the other team and you rest.
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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by white1 on Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:04 am

I don't care anymore about the reasons why. This team is so frustrating to watch. They need to figure it out.


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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by JMP on Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:23 pm

Same story every year. We lack talent in all phases of the game, and the coaching is sub-par (even if it is a bit better than years past).

But Armando is right: there is absolutely a disconnect between the way the defense is constructed, and the way the offense is run. On day one of his hiring, Gase talked about building a defense that could play with a lead. Let's forget for a moment about the "elephant in the room" of that statement, which of course is "what happens when you don't have a lead???" That aside, the part I don't understand is this: if your D is built to play with a lead, why is your offense deisgned to score minimal points? Think about it: it's an offense that mostly plays within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, rarely goes deep and doesn't even try on third down situations of more than 7 yards.

I use the term "complementary football" a lot - meaning, offense, defense and special teams are all deisgned to help each other. This Dolphins team is the exact opposite of complementary: we have an offense that can't score, a defense that doesn't force turnovers, and special teams that constantly give up field poistion (see Jakeem Grant). In short, it's a fucking shitshow that is designed to fail. Give credit to Gase for even getting 4 wins out of this team, but he's the one who designed it, and it's getting us nowhere fast.

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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by Umix10 on Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:33 pm

The defense sux because the practice sux!!!!!!!!  Scout team, game planning, personnel, etc. etc. etc.  The defense sux because of preperation!!!!! Bottom line.  You can say what you want about what you want.  

The issue is the coaching!!!!! Period.

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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by Degarmo on Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:02 pm

No free safety.

Haven't had one in 23,000 years.

It's important. Phins don't think so.

No MLB in a 4-3. Kind of a major issue.

There's really not a lot of talent on the defense to be honest. There are a couple of guys that people think are amazing because they're the best we have on the team, but vis-a-vis other teams, not so much.
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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by JMP on Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:33 am

Degarmo wrote:No free safety.

Haven't had one in 23,000 years.

It's important.  Phins don't think so.  


And I've read posts on other message boards more or less praising TJ McDonald, predicting that he'll be a savior.  The reality is - McDonald is a pretty good player, but he's a strong safety built in the mode of Reshad Jones (only not as good).  Adding McDonald gives us two safeties with similar skillsets - neither of whom is particularly good in coverage, and neither of whom is the centerfielder that this D is practically screaming for.  But it's all good - McDonald has yet to play a down this season, and the Phins have seen enough to back up the Brinks truck for him on a long-term deal despite the fact that he had been on a team-friendly 1-year deal.  Because Tannenbaum. And I read today that practice squad QB Brandon Doughty, who will likely never play an NFL down because he sucks, just had his weekly salary doubled by Gase...for some unknown reason.

When you look at the way this entire team is built, it really is mind-boggling that it's actually a professional franchise.

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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by DolFan 316 on Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:32 am

scotgif wrote:I think fans (not all) vastly overrated the D the fist few games of the year because they were keeping us in games.

That's a shot at me, isn't it? ISN'T IT?!?!

It's all good Razz What can I say other than I just wanted *something* about this team to feel good about. I'm getting soft in my middle age. Either that or I'm just sick and tired of feeling sick and tired. But as usual, us Dolfans can't have nice things.

JMP wrote:When you look at the way this entire team is built, it really is mind-boggling that it's actually a professional franchise.

Not only that, it's a miracle they've somehow managed to win 6-8 games for years instead of being firmly in Browns territory. Seriously. As scary as the incompetence of the Fins organization is, how much worse do teams like the Browns and 49ers have to be? Shocked Shocked Shocked

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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by Degarmo on Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:18 pm

JMP wrote:
Degarmo wrote:No free safety.

Haven't had one in 23,000 years.

It's important.  Phins don't think so.  


And I've read posts on other message boards more or less praising TJ McDonald, predicting that he'll be a savior.  The reality is - McDonald is a pretty good player, but he's a strong safety built in the mode of Reshad Jones (only not as good).  Adding McDonald gives us two safeties with similar skillsets - neither of whom is particularly good in coverage, and neither of whom is the centerfielder that this D is practically screaming for.  But it's all good - McDonald has yet to play a down this season, and the Phins have seen enough to back up the Brinks truck for him on a long-term deal despite the fact that he had been on a team-friendly 1-year deal.  Because Tannenbaum.  And I read today that practice squad QB Brandon Doughty, who will likely never play an NFL down because he sucks, just had his weekly salary doubled by Gase...for some unknown reason.

When you look at the way this entire team is built, it really is mind-boggling that it's actually a professional franchise.

Doughty got a raise . . .I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin' glue.
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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by Umix10 on Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:53 pm

Gase is on board with the old political game of lowering expectations...once he we go to an all time low(the panther's game).  Everything mediocre that he does will be magnified as the best coach in the NFL. I truly believe that this is Gase's MO and here's why:

Cutler has been known to be a poor man's Brett Favre.  Gunslinger, risk taker, errant thrower....etc., etc., but his stats are on the opposite side of Favre......or should I say the negative side.  The thing is he is a mediocre QB with a strong arm.  How can anyone annoint Gase as a QB guru when Cutler is just mediocre.  Coaching Cutler to "Cutler's" best statistical season only means that Cutler didn't suck like normal but elevated his game to "NFL" standards.  Not great, not elite, not superstar, but NFL "Standards".

Yes he coached Manning but Manning was already a superstar. He coached Tebow but look where he is....i'll regress if you take Doughty put him in the lineup and coach him to the superbowl....then and maybe then I can call you a QB guru!!!!!

Tell me i'm wrong!!!!!

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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by JMP on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:20 am

You nailed it, Umix. Great post.

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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by mercury22nathan on Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:14 am

JMP wrote:Think about it: it's an offense that mostly plays within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, rarely goes deep and doesn't even try on third down situations of more than 7 yards.

and they are not even shy about admitting that...

...coach Adam Gase said. “We’re going to take what the defense gives us and complete balls and try to move the sticks and stay in third-and-manageable. That’s really what it’s all about. Earlier in the season, the biggest problem we had was we were third-and-10, probably because we were trying to push the ball down the field too much.”

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article184261913.html

trying to push the ball down the field is a problem?!?! WTF?

and how is that keeping third and manageable working? Miami has converted 31% of their 3rd downs - that ranks them 31st ahead of only Cleveland.

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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by JMP on Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:32 am

mercury22nathan wrote:
JMP wrote:Think about it: it's an offense that mostly plays within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, rarely goes deep and doesn't even try on third down situations of more than 7 yards.

and they are not even shy about admitting that...

...coach Adam Gase said. “We’re going to take what the defense gives us and complete balls and try to move the sticks and stay in third-and-manageable. That’s really what it’s all about. Earlier in the season, the biggest problem we had was we were third-and-10, probably because we were trying to push the ball down the field too much.”

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article184261913.html

trying to push the ball down the field is a problem?!?!  WTF?

and how is that keeping third and manageable working?  Miami has converted 31% of their 3rd downs - that ranks them 31st ahead of only Cleveland.

So the offensive playcalling is reactive isntead of proactive, letting the opposition dictate what we do. That's called "coaching scared". At least Gase admits it. pale

And yeah, there's still too many 3rd and longs - caused by both penalties and loss of yardage/no gains on running plays and bubble screens.

And, as the article states, our top WR is averaging under 8 yards a catch - which apparently won't change unless the opposing defense lets him get more yards. Great gameplan from our offensive genius. No


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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by HalCHorn on Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:28 pm

I'd hate to see what "trying to push the ball down the field too little" is, if this offense is the opposite of that.

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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by Degarmo on Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:34 pm

I believe "push the ball down the field" in this offense means punting. They just leave off the rest of the sentence "with the punter's foot".
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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by DolFan 316 on Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:49 am

If this D was regressing before, what would you call the state they're in now? Is there even a word for it? Shocked

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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by white1 on Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:59 am

Abject failure. That's the word for it.

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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by DolFan 316 on Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:03 am

white1 wrote:Abject failure.  That's the word for it.

That's two words, actually Razz

At least the offense doesn't seem to be historically awful anymore. That's something, right? Smile

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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by white1 on Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:05 am

It's something all right. If by something, you mean "shit".

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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by DolFan 316 on Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:07 am

I'm at the point now where I just have to Laughing Maybe that's because I'm not actually subjecting myself to the games. I knew this whole not following the NFL thing would pay off sooner or later Cool

Seriously, it's ALL shit. The NFL, sports, and the human race in general. Except for you guys, you guys are all right Very Happy

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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by scotgif on Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:49 am

This is the type of "play" most expected from the D this season. The first five games of "good defense" was just a mirage. The O was expected to have to carry the D.

The sad part about it is that the O is finally showing SOME signs of life. No, they are not pretty or high-scoring, but at least they are putting more than 12 points on the board recently. They are starting to make more plays.

Like I said before the year, we look like a 6-8 win team.

No way I see us getting 8 wins now.
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Re: Dolphins D regressing

Post by white1 on Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:54 am

The NFL is in serious trouble. It's not just the concussions that are sapping participation at the lower levels.

They have saturated the market, and either don't believe that or they can't figure out how to replace the revenue from the additional nights.

Thursday night football is garbage. For that matter, I'm tired of Sunday Night football also. It should only be on 1pm or 4pm Sunday, or Monday night. That's it. I'm tired of interrupting my week to watch a game, usually a bitterly disappointing one at that. Or staying up late to watch a game. And we're not the only fans that have had to suffer these embarrassments.

I feel like football is always on - Thursday night, Sunday all day (especially when a game is played in London in the morning), Monday night, it's too much. It doesn't feel "special" anymore. Part of the allure of the NFL is scarcity, there's only 16 games so each one has an impact on the season. The league is ruining that paradigm with the "always on" network deals.

Plus, it's arrogance to think that any game will draw like the old Sunday slate used to. With the 1pm and 4pm Sunday slots, it was possible to cater even more to the individual markets with teams of interest. Having one blowout on Thursday night between two small market teams isn't going to draw an audience.

They're killing the golden goose and don't know how to stop. In my mind it's pretty simple. Roll back the ludicrous rule changes, get rid of Thursday night football, and stop throwing flags for every little thing all over the field. Fans are tired of that crap.

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