Defense has problem well beyond Burke

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Defense has problem well beyond Burke

Post by mercury22nathan on Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:00 am

this white1 quote is from the "Phins sign TE" thread, but i thought this discussion needed its own thread...

white1 wrote:The way our defense is playing, you could probably have Burke sit in on all of Denver's offensive meetings this week and we'd still give up 4 touchdowns with busted coverages and poor run defense.

as preposterous as that might sound, it may actually not be sadly far from the truth.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article187400583.html

And no one on the Dolphins sideline was surprised by anything the Patriots did. Indeed, the Dolphins the previous week practiced all but one play the Patriots ran in the game.

so Burke knew exactly what the Patriots would do and he had the team practice it.

Then game day arrived, and the Patriots ran 67 offensive plays. And the Dolphins defense committed 20 mental errors or busts. So the Dolphins screwed up on about one-third of their defensive plays Sunday.

so, have players just checked out and aren't bothering to learn assignments practiced all week long. you be the judge...

Tankersley dropped a coverage on that opening drive because he thought his assignment called for him to pick up Brandin Cooks running a deep post. He was instead supposed to stay with Phillip Dorsett, who was running a crossing route.

Tankersley, a rookie, is apparently struggling to grasp all the defensive concepts and well, his experienced defensive backfield leader isn't helping matters by making improper checks...

Reshad Jones had to account for losing leverage on one Rob Gronkowski touchdown and making a check [a new coverage call] that leads to a wide open pass to Gronkowski for another touchdown.

but of course it doesn't stop there...

Lawrence Timmons is told he lined up out of position on multiple occasions, including a 22-yard run. He wasn’t where he was supposed to be before the play even began.

Kiko Alonso, who sources say has outstanding football intelligence, has been out of position in coverage multiple games...

One of those errors came when New England, facing a third-and-14 situation, converted with a 37-yard pass to Cooks who was all alone in the secondary.

Both McDonald and Alonso rallied to Gronkowski who was a check-down option 4 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. That left the field behind those two defenders wide open for Cooks to exploit.

out of position and covering short receivers on the 3rd and 14 to let others run free is not a good look.

look, i don't think Burke is the guy for the job. maybe as an individual, he might be a promising up-and-coming coach, but i think the system that he inherited from Joseph (and continues to employ) is horribly flawed - i think that is the bigger issue.

that, and the fact that no matter what system you are using, if the players can't perform the system they've been practicing for 2 years plus, even knowing the exact plays that will coming at them the week prior - then maybe its time for better players.

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Re: Defense has problem well beyond Burke

Post by white1 on Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:27 am

Yeah, great post and this does make me wonder about talent on the roster.

Rail all day on the coaching, but if they are coming up with a good game plan, preparing players for exactly the plays the opposing offense will run, and making the right calls to put them in position - the coaches have done their job.

It's up to the players to execute, as in playing man defense when that's the call, realizing it's 3rd and 14 and refusing to bite on the 4 yard route, don't lose leverage, and set the edge on running plays.

We clearly did not do enough to bolster the talent on this roster.

Regarding Alonso, I would not hesitate to move him back to the middle. Put McMillan at SLB, cut Timmons, and find a new WLB. Alonso was worlds better at MLB and we are committed to him for the next few years, so put him where he plays best and work the roster around him at LB.

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Re: Defense has problem well beyond Burke

Post by JMP on Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:01 pm

The best coaches are able to take the talent they have and put their players in a position to win.

While I do have major issues with the roster, I absolutely refuse to believe that the Dolphins' players are somehow dumber or less coachable than players on any other teams.  I feel this coaching staff is completely unable to take what's in their heads and translate it to their players - but also, the schemes the coaches are using are also very flawed.  Let's be real - these players know how to play football...most of them have been doing it forever, and most at a high level.  The coaches need to make sure the players are doing what they're supposed to do within the context of the scheme and gameplan.  Believe me, guys like Tank know how to cover...what they're not getting is what to do when in terms of the scheme.  It is 100% on the coaching staff to make that happen - to make sure everyone is on the same page and each player knows his responsibilities on any given play.  

Guys like Timmons, McDonald and Jones have played at a top level throughout their careers...but now they look lost.  Do they all of a sudden suck?  I'm not buying that.

You look at teams like the Saints and Patriots, who completely revamped their defenses in the offseason and the Saints, at least, have a bunch of rookies starting, and in week 11 these are two of the better defenses in the league.  Why are these teams able to accomplish more with less than the Dolpins have?  Why have the Rams become a top defense in year one of a new system?  Why was a rookie Cowboys' corner who has missed much of the season able to play lights out last night on the national stage...looking better than our rookie corners ever do?  It's coaching - put the player in a position to make plays.

This Dolphin defense is loaded with veteran players...absolutely loaded.  Again, I'm not buying that all of these guys became garbage players overnight.  I'm not a big fan of all of them by any means, but come on...there's no way the talent on this D should equate to a horrendously bad defense.  It's coaching...we saw the D struggle in Joseph's system last year, and now under Burke in more or less the same system things are quickly getting even worse.


Last edited by JMP on Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Defense has problem well beyond Burke

Post by white1 on Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:47 pm

While I do have major issues with the roster, I absolutely refuse to believe that the Dolphins' players are somehow dumber or less coachable than players on any other teams. I

Just to play Devil's Advocate for a while, why?

Let's review the roster for just a minute.

Other teams tried and moved on from Kiko Alonso, Lawrence Timmons, Ndamakong Suh, TJ McDonald, and Andre Branch. The really great players don't get to free agency, and they don't get released until their play suffers. We rely on all of them to start and produce for us, and Suh is still one of the highest paid DTs in football.

There are players on our team that have never played anywhere else. Cameron Wake came from the CFL. Yes he's great, but he may finally be starting to show his age. We have two rookie DTs and "the bust" Phillips. We have Chris Harris at DE. We have Reshad Jones, Tankersley, and X Howard. All of whom have only played in Miami. We don't know how they would fare on other rosters, but they have earned starting jobs.

IMO it's not out of the realm of possibility at all, and in fact may be likely, that our players actually ARE not as football smart, not as instinctive, not as good under pressure, to perform at a high level in the NFL. They may be close, to varying degrees, but in the NFL the margin of victory on any given play is so small, those small variances can add up.

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Re: Defense has problem well beyond Burke

Post by JMP on Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:34 pm

white1 wrote:
While I do have major issues with the roster, I absolutely refuse to believe that the Dolphins' players are somehow dumber or less coachable than players on any other teams. I

Just to play Devil's Advocate for a while, why?

Let's review the roster for just a minute.

Other teams tried and moved on from Kiko Alonso, Lawrence Timmons, Ndamakong Suh, TJ McDonald, and Andre Branch.  The really great players don't get to free agency, and they don't get released until their play suffers.  We rely on all of them to start and produce for us, and Suh is still one of the highest paid DTs in football.

There are players on our team that have never played anywhere else.  Cameron Wake came from the CFL.  Yes he's great, but he may finally be starting to show his age.  We have two rookie DTs and "the bust" Phillips.  We have Chris Harris at DE.  We have Reshad Jones, Tankersley, and X Howard.  All of whom have only played in Miami.  We don't know how they would fare on other rosters, but they have earned starting jobs.

IMO it's not out of the realm of possibility at all, and in fact may be likely, that our players actually ARE not as football smart, not as instinctive, not as good under pressure, to perform at a high level in the NFL.  They may be close, to varying degrees, but in the NFL the margin of victory on any given play is so small, those small variances can add up.

Again, it just doesn't make any logical sense to think that the Dolphins' roster is "dumber" than other teams' rosters.

I firmly believe that when players are unprepared week after week and don't know what they're doing by week 11, that indicates a colossal fail by the coaching staff. And when you listen to the coaches talk, it's obvious that this entire coaching staff is clueless.

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Re: Defense has problem well beyond Burke

Post by Degarmo on Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:38 pm

Guys, it's both. It's shitty coaches and shitty talent. You have guys making mental mistakes, and guys being put in the wrong places. Two sets of different morons making a stupid salad.
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