Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

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Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by JMP on Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:11 pm

The Dolphins played by far their best game of the season today, absolutely destroying the hapless Broncos, 35-9. This game was all about outstanding efforts from defense and special teams for Miami, a nice change from the usual poor play I’ve come to expect from those units.

The defense was excellent, getting consistent pressure all day and grabbing 3 INTs (one returned for a pick 6 by Xavien Howard). The D also had a safety on a bad snap. The DTs were great, especially Phillips, Suh and Taylor. Branch had his best game of the season with some nice pressures and decent run support. Howard played his best game as a pro with 2 INTs, and TJ McDonald got his first INT as a Phin. The run D was a bit shaky, but not a major concern today. Overall, this was a dominant performance with no real negatives to point out.

Special teams was fantastic, registering a blocked punt and a safety. Haack had some excellent punts, and the return game finally showed up with a couple of nice punt returns by Grant.

The offense was a bit hit and miss. Cutler had a few really nice passes, but also threw a bunch of terrible passes and missed open receivers, and threw a pick 6. He did move very well in the pocket and avoided a few sacks with some nice footwork. The OL had what I would call a rough day…a few penalties, numerous QB pressures allowed and overall poor run blocking. Kenyan Drake got his first start and ran for 120 yards, including a beautiful 42-yard scamper for a TD. But the majority of his runs went for under 3 yards, as he constantly got hit in the backfield. Kenny Stills lost a fumble in the red zone, but otherwise had another excellent game with just under 100 yards and a TD. He also had a circus-style catch on the ground that will no doubt make many highlight reels. Landry made some clutch catches, as did Julius Thomas (and he also had a TD). DeVante Parker continued to struggle, catching just 1 pass for 5 yards. He had a drop, and for the 5th time in 3 weeks he gave up on a pass that was intercepted. Right now, he is really hurting the team and I think he should be benched until he gets his head straight.

With 7 losses, the Phins season is essentially over barring a series of miracles. But for one week at least, the Phins played great and kicked ass from start to finish. My enthusiasm is tempered by the fact the Broncos are a terrible team and have no OL or QB, but at least the game was fun to watch for a change.

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by DolFan 316 on Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:12 am

I truly believe this game was the single lowest point in Broncos franchise history. They haven't had too many 7-game losing streaks, and not only did they lose to the Fins, they got blown out. That's got to be the absolute nadir as far as the NFL is concerned. Elway looks like a Tannenbaum-level GM right now.

Who knew the one coach Gase could outsmart would be the guy who was his DC last season? Really sad on several levels.

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by white1 on Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:38 am

Elway must be pissed following this game. His team was not only beaten, they were embarrassed by a team like ours, in the midst of a 5 game skid and struggling ourselves.

I read that undrafted FA Calvin Malvauex was getting playing time instead of Charles Harris? Bust alert. Big time.

I also read that Tunsil played a good game, and it's about goddamn time.

I agree with JMP. Essentially, we are out of it and the Pats will remove all doubt on Monday night next week. Yay another primetime game *rolls eyes*

But for one day, it was fun to watch this team. Drake showed some skills, and he played with more power yesterday than I've seen before from him. Our defensive backs actually provided coverage on many plays, getting hands in to break up passes plus of course the INTs. Time of possession was solidly in our favor all game, and the Broncos were getting worn out from the heat and humidity.

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by mercury22nathan on Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:17 am

i love the fact that the Phins crushed somebody and i'm happy to get a win, but i guess this team has disappointed me so much that its hard to get too excited in the midst of what appears to be yet another losing season. i'm afraid a victory like this (yes, it beats the alternative) makes Ross say (once again), "see, we're close," and stay the course. its already got the beat writers fooled.

The Dolphins got very good signs for the future from Sunday’s game.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article187875704.html

The Dolphins’ defense actually functions as designed, if given the opportunity.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article187852029.html

well, sure. if the Phins can guarantee the opposition snaps the ball over the QB's head, fumbles returns into the endzone, allows free rushers on punts and lofts out routes for easy pick sixes each and every week, then maybe i'll start to believe again.

the above article makes a big deal about how important the good play of Jordan Phillips is to the future of this team. yes, Phillips had a very nice game (and has on very rare occasions flashed in the past), but should i believe this one game is an indicator of what he will bring in the future or maybe i'll just rely on the tape laid down in his previous 39 stints. lets not forget Drake's previous fumbles and history of injuries before we crown him the carry-the-load back and ignore the position in the off-season.

this game was way more about how bad the Broncos are than how the Phins are about to turn the corner next year. the Miami offense still threw a pick-six, fumbled in the red-zone, and went 4 of 15 (27%) on 3rd down. the 1st quarter resulted in 3 punts with 2 three-and-outs. by halftime they had traded a TD with a interception and added another punt. and the first 3 drives of the second half all started in Denver territory and produced a FG, fumble and interception.

show me some lopsided victories (or even just victories) against NE and Buffalo over the course of the next 4 weeks and maybe i'll start to care again for 2018 - otherwise, this game is just more gold for the fool.

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by JMP on Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:26 am

white1 wrote:

I read that undrafted FA Calvin Malvauex was getting playing time instead of Charles Harris? Bust alert.  Big time.

I also read that Tunsil played a good game, and it's about goddamn time.

...

Our defensive backs actually provided coverage on many plays, getting hands in to break up passes plus of course the INTs.  Time of possession was solidly in our favor all game, and the Broncos were getting worn out from the heat and humidity.  

I honestly didn't notice either Harris or Malvauex! I guess that shows how much impact they had. I do see in the box score that Harris was credited with 2 tackles...but I didn't even see them during the game.

I thought Tunsil had a bad game...looked to me like his man was running free after Cutler on several occasions. I can't stress enough how good Cutler looked avoiding pressure yesterday...he was like a different person.

IMO, the defense played so well because we finally had a pass rush. I can finally see what Gase means when he said that the DL is built to play with a lead. Of course, we rarely have a lead - and even more rarely a big lead - so I'm not sure that's such a good thing...I'd rather have a defense that is built to be strong regardless of circumstance. It is what it is.

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by JMP on Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:32 am

A couple of things I didn't mention in the game thoughts:

Despite the big win, this team still looked sloppy and undisciplined. At least 3 more penalties on the OL (all holds this time), and an absolutely bone-headed personal foul on Stephone Anthony for pushing the QB well after the play.

I'm looking at the box score for the first time and seeing that we only had 15 first downs and were just 4/15 on third downs. Those are really poor numbers and aren't going to get the job done against the Pats.

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by white1 on Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:40 am

Agree on those numbers but let's also consider this.

As bad as the Broncos losing streak has been, their defense has remained stout. They came in number 1 against the run. And they can still rush the QB with Von Miller. No shame in struggling against that unit.

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by JMP on Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:10 am

mercury22nathan wrote:i love the fact that the Phins crushed somebody and i'm happy to get a win, but i guess this team has disappointed me so much that its hard to get too excited in the midst of what appears to be yet another losing season.  i'm afraid a victory like this (yes, it beats the alternative) makes Ross say (once again), "see, we're close," and stay the course.  its already got the beat writers fooled.

The Dolphins got very good signs for the future from Sunday’s game.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article187875704.html

The Dolphins’ defense actually functions as designed, if given the opportunity.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article187852029.html

well, sure.  if the Phins can guarantee the opposition snaps the ball over the QB's head, fumbles returns into the endzone, allows free rushers on punts and lofts out routes for easy pick sixes each and every week, then maybe i'll start to believe again.  

the above article makes a big deal about how important the good play of Jordan Phillips is to the future of this team.  yes, Phillips had a very nice game (and has on very rare occasions flashed in the past), but should i believe this one game is an indicator of what he will bring in the future or maybe i'll just rely on the tape laid down in his previous 39 stints.  lets not forget Drake's previous fumbles and history of injuries before we crown him the carry-the-load back and ignore the position in the off-season.

this game was way more about how bad the Broncos are than how the Phins are about to turn the corner next year.  the Miami offense still threw a pick-six, fumbled in the red-zone, and went 4 of 15 (27%) on 3rd down.  the 1st quarter resulted in 3 punts with 2 three-and-outs.  by halftime they had traded a TD with a interception and added another punt.  and the first 3 drives of the second half all started in Denver territory and produced a FG, fumble and interception.

show me some lopsided victories (or even just victories) against NE and Buffalo over the course of the next 4 weeks and maybe i'll start to care again for 2018 - otherwise, this game is just more gold for the fool.

Great post, merc - I completely agree.

As you said, a win is nice...but it doesn't change the fact that the Phins have been terrible all season. Beating a terrible team doesn't mean that everything is all of a sudden "fixed".

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by scotgif on Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:27 am

This game shows more about how bad the Broncos are than how good the Fins are. Actually, if they had a halfway decent QB, it would have been a close game. I mean Simien it really bad. The Broncos actually ran very good against us and they had open receivers that should have had a lot more catches than they ended up with if the QB could have just gotten the ball to them.
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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by rightchea on Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:03 pm

I have to agree. the Broncos are not as bad as they looked and with a better QB this game would be a different story

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by Degarmo on Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:38 pm

I find no solace or joy in this victory, because we're a broken franchise right now. They need to fix their structure and then their talent pool before any of this shit matters.

I know, another ray of fucking sunshine.
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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by JMP on Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:53 pm

I'm with you, Degarmo. Watching the game, I didn't cheer once or even crack a smile. I'm just so apathetic at this point...

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by rightchea on Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:02 pm

Degarmo wrote:I find no solace or joy in this victory, because we're a broken franchise right now.  They need to fix their structure and then their talent pool before any of this shit matters.

I know, another ray of fucking sunshine.

To be totally honest Miami isn't as messed up as we want to think. Miami has a lot of scouting issue which turns into drafting issue which gives Miami bad players. Yeah, Miami is a team that needs some definite upgrades but at the same time, there is a lot of average to good players on Miami team. Still, Landry, Jones, are all good but not great players. Suh and wake are also average to good players but there are a couple more. Miami doesn't have a good balance of good/great players.

This starts with the coaching. Gase needs to rethink his game planning and who calls the plays. Second get rid of their Defensive Coordinator and find an actual coordinator and stop hiring those assistance. Ross needs to evaluate his scouting department after this season is over.

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by DolFan 316 on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:19 pm

Giants just fired their coach and GM in one fell swoop. yet another team does it the right way while Ross hems and haws and halfasses things. Bleh.

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by Degarmo on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:43 pm

rightchea wrote:
Degarmo wrote:I find no solace or joy in this victory, because we're a broken franchise right now.  They need to fix their structure and then their talent pool before any of this shit matters.

I know, another ray of fucking sunshine.

To be totally honest Miami isn't as messed up as we want to think. Miami has a lot of scouting issue which turns into drafting issue which gives Miami bad players. Yeah, Miami is a team that needs some definite upgrades but at the same time, there is a lot of average to good players on Miami team. Still, Landry, Jones, are all good but not great players. Suh and wake are also average to good players but there are a couple more. Miami doesn't have a good balance of good/great players.

This starts with the coaching. Gase needs to rethink his game planning and who calls the plays. Second get rid of their Defensive Coordinator and find an actual coordinator and stop hiring those assistance. Ross needs to evaluate his scouting department after this season is over.

I usually agree with you, but I'm going to not agree this time.  Miami is far away from being a winner.  Our front office is a disaster, cap is not good (could be worse, but it's not a workable "turnaround in one year" kind of a thing), we need a new President of Football Operations and a new REAL AUTONOMOUS GM.  Then we need an entirely new coaching staff (go hire back Campbell Razz ).  Our medical department and scouting is fucking horrible.  Surgeons are top notch though, so that's a good thing.  The facilities are first rate.  Talent is abysmal.  We have no offensive line at all.  Tunsil is really it, that's all there is, and he's still a question mark.  We need at least 5 new guys for the O line.  TE is a barren wasteland of garbage.  RB is thin and we have no starter quality guy at all.  WR will be thin when we let Landry walk because Parker is a stiff.  We should jettison him as soon as possible unless we get an amazing new coach who can motivate him.

Defense, Suh is fine, obviously a rework of that contract is needed.  Wake is starting to fade.  There nothing else of any merit on the line that can't be easily replaced, i.e. nothing special.  So, next year, we have no pass rush at all.  Linebackers are a mess.  We need 3 starters, so the entire group.  Hopefully our pick this year will fit right in as a new MLB.  He looked promising before his injury.  DBs are a mish-mash of meh.  Safeties are meh, and Jones hasn't impressed much this year, but I think much of that is scheme.

So there you have it, in my opinion.

We're god awful, and a minimum of 2 years away from even considering being real competition.  Even if we have a decent season or get to 10 wins, it'll be smoke and mirrors next year.  

This is why I've been such a Negative Nancy lately.  There is no Obi Wan, there is no hope.
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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by JMP on Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:31 pm

I'm pretty much in agreement, Degarmo. I think this team is in much worse shape than most people realize, from top to bottom and side to side.

But...I absolutely would NOT restructure Suh. That contract is an absolute disaster, but I think you just have to ride it out at this point. No need to add even more money to the backend. We can dump him in 2020...I think we just have to suck it up till then.

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by rightchea on Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:00 am

I wouldn't add money to this contract but more like try to take some away and give him a great excuse or just be real honest, Miami needs better talent.

DolFan 316 wrote:Giants just fired their coach and GM in one fell swoop. yet another team does it the right way while Ross hems and haws and halfasses things. Bleh.

We can say that but at the same time the Browns did it and see where they are at. they are on pace to being 0-16. I understand that being a Fin fan has is frustrating but to be honest Miami is not in the shape that most of the teams that are doing worst then what Miami record shows. I not sure of the schedule strengths for all the other teams but Miami is not flat out awful. If Miami does as bad as they are doing next year then the whole front office needs to be restructured starting with the GM and President then go down the list but until there is a definitely two year slide then Miami is pretty much average.

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by white1 on Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:19 am

But...I absolutely would NOT restructure Suh. That contract is an absolute disaster, but I think you just have to ride it out at this point. No need to add even more money to the backend. We can dump him in 2020...I think we just have to suck it up till then.

Totally agree. Don't make a bad problem worse, and for God's sake don't cut him and absorb the dead money while needing to find a replacement who certainly will be a step down talent wise. The good news for us at DT is it looks to me like we found two guys in Taylor - Godchaux who are serviceable, and each has good upside as well. That's good, cheap labor starting next to Suh, with one as depth. No way we keep Phillips, not only because he's been so inconsistent, but because we simply cannot afford to sign him to even a relatively cheap deal. We need rookie contracts at that position, and nothing else until Suh contract is up.

Harris is trending towards BUST and that's a huge black eye for this regime. A position of need, and it looks by all accounts that we missed with our first round pick. To add insult to injury, guys taken after Harris seem to be panning out like TJ Watt and Tak McKinley. We will be going into the 2018 draft still needing help at defensive end, and wondering if Harris will ever develop into a starting caliber end.

Tunsil is killing me. All the talent in the world, just doesn't seem to have the work ethic and fire to become an elite left tackle. There are few things more disappointing to me than talent wasted. Put Jarvis Landry's head on that body and you have Orlando Pace.

Speaking of wasted talent, Devante Parker is reaching for new lows, seemingly every week. Another bust.

So there you have it. Parker, Tunsil, Harris three first round picks in a row, and none are panning out even close to what we need them to be. The problem with this team remains the draft and our inability to draft playmakers, even with picks high in the first round. It absolutely has to change if we are ever going to see the talent level improve on this roster. To this point, there are very few signs that this regime will figure out how to evaluate and draft talent.


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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by JMP on Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:28 am

Good post, white.

The thing with Taylor and Godchaux is, we don't really know how good they are because they're playing next to Suh. I like what I've seen from them - especially Taylor, who I think has more upside - but are they simply benefiting from the attention Suh receives? I don't know. At least they look like they belong.

You really nailed it with the first round picks. Missing out on 3 consecutive first rounders, as it appears we are doing, is really a killer. It sets the team back, because we're giving these guys tons of snaps and they're simply not producing. It's a waste of time and resources. Tunsil looks slow and disinterested, and his technique is crap. Harris can't beat a block and does absolutely nothing. Parker is soft and gives shit effort. Poor drafting continues to doom this team.

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by mercury22nathan on Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:44 am

more fool's gold from this hollow victory.

if you had told me a week ago that Armando would write the following about Julius Thomas, i would've questioned your sanity.

Now, it seems, Thomas might earn another chance with the Dolphins in 2018.

And the reason Thomas’ departure no longer seems certain is because he’s sort of playing his way back into the picture.

Thomas caught a touchdown pass against the Denver Broncos on Sunday.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article187982759.html

it was ONE game against a very bad opponent, with a very, very bad QB on an 8 game losing streak. and for all this talk of a how great the Broncos defense (supposedly) still is, the Phins offense managed only 2 drives of more than 45 yards and 11 of the offensive drives netted less than 25 yards. and this to a Denver team that has given up point totals of 29 (struggling Chiefs), 51 (Eagles) and 41 (Patriots) - so the 24 scored (10 of which came on short fields) by the Phins offense seems a given at the very least.

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by white1 on Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:11 am

Yeah, this is silly. Cutting Thomas gets you most of the way to the cap hit you'll take signing Landry long term.

I'm actually leaning towards keeping Landry now, and this is a change from a couple months ago. Here's my reasoning:

- With some of the plays he's making, it's becoming more clear to me that it's not so much his skills are limited, as the routes he runs. This can be modified and optimized, so that his yards per catch and YAC are better than they are now.

- He clearly has heart, and is a tough competitor. He's hard to bring down when he's running with the ball. Probably some of the surest hands on the team. This team needs more of all those things, not less. Keep him in house and try and find more guys like him that will feed off of the enthusiasm, fire and emotional leadership.

- With all the needs on the team, and with Parker continually failing to emerge, why not keep Landry and avoid creating yet another desperate need position? Parker is almost certain to be gone following his rookie year, and Carroo has done less than nothing.



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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by DolFan 316 on Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:59 pm

That Armando article either wasn't done by him, or he was threatened by someone with the team if he didn't play spin doctor. Because it's the complete opposite of each and every article he's done for the last few years. Armando's like us, he knows what's really up.

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by JMP on Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:30 pm

white1 wrote:Yeah, this is silly.  Cutting Thomas gets you most of the way to the cap hit you'll take signing Landry long term.

I'm actually leaning towards keeping Landry now, and this is a change from a couple months ago.  Here's my reasoning:

- With some of the plays he's making, it's becoming more clear to me that it's not so much his skills are limited, as the routes he runs.  This can be modified and optimized, so that his yards per catch and YAC are better than they are now.  

- He clearly has heart, and is a tough competitor.  He's hard to bring down when he's running with the ball.  Probably some of the surest hands on the team.  This team needs more of all those things, not less.  Keep him in house and try and find more guys like him that will feed off of the enthusiasm, fire and emotional leadership.

- With all the needs on the team, and with Parker continually failing to emerge, why not keep Landry and avoid creating yet another desperate need position? Parker is almost certain to be gone following his rookie year, and Carroo has done less than nothing.


Agree on Julius Thomas. He's not an elite TE by any stretch of the imagination, and we can get a comparable or better player almost anywhere. No need to keep $6.6 million on our cap for him. But what scares me is, I wouldn't be surprised if the Phins extend him with a huge contract like they did with Branch and Alonso. I can totally see that happening.

On Landry...I don't know what the hell to do with him. On the one hand, he's the go-to guy on the offense and gets tons more targets than anyone else...getting rid of him would create a HUGE void that can't be reoplaced in-house. On the other hand, I'm not sure the production he gives us is worth $10 - $15 million a year - especially when Stills is already making $8 million a year and the draft is loaded with slot receivers. Plus, paying Landry that much money means we have to go bottom-of-the-barrel at other need poistions. If we drafted well that would be fine - but we don't. I just don't know...

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by JMP on Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:32 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:That Armando article either wasn't done by him, or he was threatened by someone with the team if he didn't play spin doctor. Because it's the complete opposite of each and every article he's done for the last few years. Armando's like us, he knows what's really up.

But don't forget - Armando has a pretty reliable source in the Dolphins' HQ. If he's writing this piece, it probably means that the team loves Thomas and is planning to keep him - probably with a huge contract extenison that features tons of guaranteed money (as I mentioned in the post above).

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Re: Game 12 thoughts: Broncos at Dolphins

Post by Degarmo on Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:44 pm

Gase loves Thomas, they love Gase. Thomas stays.
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