Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by finfanatic on Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:24 pm

Well, I am somewhat encouraged here. I did not think they would even tag him.

I assume this means they DO want to keep him?

Again, if Gase is not the real deal, it will not matter.

If we KNEW the team was gonna have to start all over, it might be better to let Landry go for some picks.

Still, I have always thought letting a player that has PROVEN he can play and produce for maybe...perhaps....nebulous...ephemeral....CHANCE at a good player in the draft is a recipe for disaster. Especially the way the Phins draft.

Having Landry on the team and happy is a GOOD THING IMO. And the Phins need all he GOOD THINGS they can get.

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by finfanatic on Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:24 pm

DOUBLE POST....Sorry

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by white1 on Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:36 pm

Well, I am somewhat encouraged here. I did not think they would even tag him.

I assume this means they DO want to keep him?

Again, if Gase is not the real deal, it will not matter.

Agree with the sentiment of your post, however I believe the theory that early usage of the tag indicates the team wants to entertain trade offers.

I agree that keeping Landry, and under a worthy contract, is an important thing. In fact, retaining talented players is more important than what the coach wants. History has shown that coaches (and GMs for that matter) are temporary. Most of them anyways.

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by Umix10 on Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:10 pm

I don't like this at all. There was indication from the very beginning that they don't want Landry. They were looking for big things from Parker but that never materialized. They signed Stills to be a field stretcher. They brought in a so called proven TE in Thomas under the same coach that made him his bones. So all in all, it looks like Gase prefers a more vertical passing game then a dink and dunk offense. Ironic! Because he got the complete opposite of what was intended.

Franchise Tag only insures that Landry will get paid. Had they not dicked around prior to last season they would have gotten him at a way cheaper price. Miami is in dire need of some talent. Not just talent but, an abundance of Talent. Not just abundant Talent but, cheap abundant talent. 6 contracts that severely limit this team is Suh's, Branch's, Tannehill's, Wake, Stills, James. There are too many things that need to be fixed to be hooked on another bad contract. Don't get me wrong Landry deserves it, but not from this team.
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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by JMP on Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:08 pm

Agree, Umix. Tagging Landry is just another case of mismanagement by the Phins.

Miami CLEARLY did not have any interest in signing Landry before they tagged him - they didn't try to work out a deal last season, they didn't try to work out a deal this season, and they ignored Landry's latest proposal last week. So now they franchise tag him???? Huh? Makes no sense at all. Obviously they want to trade him...but that is much easier said than done. When is the last time there was a big-time trade for a franchised player? I'm asking, because I can't think of one in the last 10 years or so.

Fact is, Landry can now hold the team hostage. No other team is going to give Miami a high pick and then hand Landry a huge contract. So now, Landry can just let the Phins sit back and sweat while he takes up $16 million of valuable cap space. The Phins either give him what he wants, or he eats up their cap space indefinitely.

As Armando pointed out, they didn't want to pay $14.5 million a year, with a significantly lower 2018 cap hit - but they're OK tying up $16 million in cap space for who knows how long? Unless the Phins get a first rounder out of this, which seems impossible, then this is a stupid move. Just another day at the office for Tannenbaum...

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by Degarmo on Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:34 pm

This feels to me like they got played by another team. This is Bellichick written all over it. It's possibly the Welker situation again, but this time we kept the WR.
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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by JMP on Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:44 pm

I will say that I am very happy that Landry will probably stay with the Phins. It's just that $16 million cap hit that sucks. Again, just poorly handled by the Phins.

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by JMP on Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:08 pm

So, just wondering...

If the Dolphins weren't happy with the trade offers they fielded for Landry at the trade deadline, why are they expecting to get a better deal a few months later? scratch

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by white1 on Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:10 am

I will say that I am very happy that Landry will probably stay with the Phins. It's just that $16 million cap hit that sucks. Again, just poorly handled by the Phins.

Agreed. Better he stays with the team. If this regime gets flushed, we need all the talent possible on the roster for the next leadership team to build on.

Silver lining on the cap hit: This should prevent us from handing out huge contracts to garbage free agents this offseason.

So, just wondering...

If the Dolphins weren't happy with the trade offers they fielded for Landry at the trade deadline, why are they expecting to get a better deal a few months later?

Makes very little sense. Maybe they aren't really trying to trade him? I don't know, honestly. We are all just guessing.

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by mercury22nathan on Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:37 am

JMP wrote:Just another day at the office for Tannenbaum...  

and just think, the Phins might not even be in this penny-pinching position had they not threw away $10M cap space on the Cutler desperation signing.

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by rightchea on Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:27 am

JMP wrote:So, just wondering...

If the Dolphins weren't happy with the trade offers they fielded for Landry at the trade deadline, why are they expecting to get a better deal a few months later?   scratch

Exactly. Teams are not paying tons of money for FA like that anymore. Going after big money players only work if you have the right mix of players. Miami doesn't understand that at the moment and will continue to miss the playoffs.

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by JMP on Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:38 am

rightchea wrote:
JMP wrote:So, just wondering...

If the Dolphins weren't happy with the trade offers they fielded for Landry at the trade deadline, why are they expecting to get a better deal a few months later?   scratch

Exactly. Teams are not paying tons of money for FA like that anymore. Going after big money players only work if you have the right mix of players. Miami doesn't understand that at the moment and will continue to miss the playoffs.

It's not so much the money...I think there's a bunch of teams that would love to pay Landry what he wants. It's the draft picks, too. Maybe a team would part with a 3rd or 4th and then throw money at Landry, but to give up a 1 or a 2 plus the money doesn't make much sense. I think the Phins really misread the market.

Another thing to consider...if the Phins really want to keep Landry and the two sides aren't far apart in $, why did they use the franchise tag on day 1? Teams have til March 6 to use the tag, so why didn't the Phins just try to negotiate a contract before tagging Landry? The whole thing just makes no sense.

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by JMP on Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:41 am

white1 wrote:Silver lining on the cap hit: This should prevent us from handing out huge contracts to garbage free agents this offseason.

Good point. That may be the only way to keep Tannenbaum in check! Although after all the cuts are made I'm sure he'll find a way to hand out more bad contracts...

merc wrote:and just think, the Phins might not even be in this penny-pinching position had they not threw away $10M cap space on the Cutler desperation signing.

That Cutler contract eats at me a little more each day. Just awful on every level - what a stupid, stupid idea. Scary that a "QB guru" really thought Cutler was the answer. No

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by finfanatic on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:45 pm

I still say using the tag was a message to Landry that the Phins intend to keep him.

One way or the other.

Again...never count on the Phins to do the SMART, EFFICIENT thing when it comes to free agents.

They try to chisel their own players while going all out for some other teams rejects (some of whom have to serve 8 game suspensions) and pony up way above market value for a (suspended) player!

So who knows?

On Gase - Yes, he digs the long ball, but he has always said paraphrased "The short passing game is the backbone of today's NFL offenses." So he EXPECTS the dink and dunk. The trouble comes in when the chances to connect on a long ball come and either the QB or the WR has a dysfunction. THAT totally derails the SYSTEM IMO.

Cutler - Well, if you thought you had a playoff team with Tannehill at the helm, and were looking at going thru the whole season with the inconsistent Matt Moore as a starter, the Cutler deal makes COMPLETE SENSE! Personally, I think Cutler's aura...his attitude/personality...something...is a team killer.

But $10 mill for QB that MIGHT keep the Phins at a playoff level? Cheap IMO.

It did not work, but....






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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by white1 on Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:35 pm

Cutler - Well, if you thought you had a playoff team with Tannehill at the helm, and were looking at going thru the whole season with the inconsistent Matt Moore as a starter, the Cutler deal makes COMPLETE SENSE! Personally, I think Cutler's aura...his attitude/personality...something...is a team killer.

But $10 mill for QB that MIGHT keep the Phins at a playoff level? Cheap IMO.

It did not work, but....

Yeah, I have to agree.

It's easy to say in hindsight that signing Cutler was a mistake. But let's remember where we were back in August 2017.

Tannehill was playing in camp. Telling everyone to forget about his knee, it wasn't a problem. In fact I think he said this about 1 day before he heard it on that running play.

Tannehill hurt himself in early August. A terrible time to try and find a starting QB.

I can blame the front office (and all of us have) for failing to have a solid backup plan to Tannehill. Hell, WE COULD HAVE signed Nick Foles in the spring while Tannehill was still rehabbing. Instead we kept Moore, who apparently we had no faith could play a full season. That is the biggest mistake in all of this.

Signing Cutler, when there was really no viable alternative, was likely the best decision of the bad few options remaining. It sucks, but what was the alternative? Kaepernick?

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by white1 on Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:37 pm

Let me add one final point.

Cutler actually played some really good games for us. What he couldn't do is carry a team with a TERRIBLE defense, and a lackluster offensive line. Not to mention Parker failing to deliver the season everyone thought he could. Plus Julius Thomas proving beyond a doubt he is washed up.

This team suffered from SEVERAL fatal flaws. I don't see Cutler being the primary reason we failed. He just didn't have the juice to overcome everything else. There's no crime in that.

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by JMP on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:34 pm

finfanatic wrote:I still say using the tag was a message to Landry that the Phins intend to keep him.

One way or the other.

Again...never count on the Phins to do the SMART, EFFICIENT thing when it comes to free agents.

They try to chisel their own players while going all out for some other teams rejects (some of whom have to serve 8 game suspensions) and pony up way above market value for a (suspended) player!

So who knows?

On Gase - Yes, he digs the long ball, but he has always said paraphrased "The short passing game is the backbone of today's NFL offenses." So he EXPECTS the dink and dunk. The trouble comes in when the chances to connect on a long ball come and either the QB or the WR has a dysfunction. THAT totally derails the SYSTEM IMO.

Cutler - Well, if you thought you had a playoff team with Tannehill at the helm, and were looking at going thru the whole season with the inconsistent Matt Moore as a starter, the Cutler deal makes COMPLETE SENSE! Personally, I think Cutler's aura...his attitude/personality...something...is a team killer.

But $10 mill for QB that MIGHT keep the Phins at a playoff level? Cheap IMO.

It did not work, but....




You may be right about the Phins wanting to keep Landry - but again, why franchise him weeks before it was necessary, why ignore the agent's last proposal, and why not try to sign him at any point in the last two seasons? I've given up trying to make sense of what this team does, but even for them, this one is a real head-scratcher.

As for Cutler, anyone that has seen him play at any point in his career knew this was not going to end well. He is a LOSER, plain and simple. He's not a leader, he's not a good QB and he's never going to take an average team and make them better. Hell, the guy didn't even want to play football anymore...he only came back because Gase begged him and handed him $10 million. Given the choice between Cutler and Moore/Fales/Doughty, give me Moore and the backup scrubs every day. If I'm going to have a losing season, I'm going to do it with the cheaper QB that the players already know and love, and if he can't get it done I'm going to see if the young scrubs are able to show anything at all worthwhile. Cutler was never going to be anything more than a dead end, and the fact that our "QB guru" couldn't see that is absolute proof that he is not, in fact, a QB guru at all.

White is correct - Cutler wasn't the primary reason that 2017 was a bust. But he was certainly a big part of it, and there was no way he was ever going to be successful anywhere he played, be it the Dolphins or anywhere else. Hell, the guy has been terrible his entire career - why would things be different in Miami, playing for a coach that he already failed with???

And if anyone really believed the 2016 Phins were a legit playoff team, well, that's more short-sighted, unrealistic thinking. Something this team is (in)famous for.


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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by rightchea on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:42 pm

well I just read on twitter that Omar Kelly thinks that Gase and Landry have a good relationship.

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by DolFan 316 on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:53 pm

rightchea wrote:well I just read on twitter that Omar Kelly thinks that Gase and Landry have a good relationship.

If Omar says A, that's all the proof anyone needs that B is actually true.

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by Degarmo on Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:00 am

I still say, if you didn't think Matt Moore could fill in for any extended stretch, why the f*$# is he still here?
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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by white1 on Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:14 am

I still say, if you didn't think Matt Moore could fill in for any extended stretch, why the f*$# is he still here?

Exactly. While the Eagles were signing a starting-caliber backup QB. We stood pat with Matt Moore, then promptly panicked when it became clear he may have to start all season when Tanny went down.

That's the worse mistake made last season IMO. Signing Cutler was probably the only least-bad option remaining on the table at the point it was done.

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by JMP on Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:53 am

white1 wrote:
I still say, if you didn't think Matt Moore could fill in for any extended stretch, why the f*$# is he still here?

Exactly.  While the Eagles were signing a starting-caliber backup QB.  We stood pat with Matt Moore, then promptly panicked when it became clear he may have to start all season when Tanny went down.

That's the worse mistake made last season IMO.  Signing Cutler was probably the only least-bad option remaining on the table at the point it was done.

Yet another Dolphins decision that made no sense. It was pretty damn clear this season that Gase wanted no part of Moore. So why was he on the team??? I just don't get it.

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by rightchea on Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:16 pm

I truly don't think that all of the issues is Gase. Tannenbaum is the one that handles the roster and who really stays and who really get cut

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by JMP on Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:52 pm

rightchea wrote:I truly don't think that all of the issues is Gase. Tannenbaum is the one that handles the roster and who really stays and who really get cut

Gase supposedly has final say on the roster, so if he wants someone gone - they're gone. I'm surprised he kept Moore...maybe the cap hit wasn't worth it?

Back to Landry:
My friend is a huge Saints fan, and he is hearing that the Saints are VERY interested in Landry. We'll see what happens...

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Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

Post by JMP on Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:57 pm

More on Landry:

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article201789859.html

Adam Beasley wrote:At this point, it would be a stunner if the Dolphins do not trade Landry in the next few weeks. As Armando Salguero explained, his $16 million franchise tag figure is crippling to the Dolphins’ salary cap and, should it remain on their books, would make it all but impossible for them to be players in free agency.

The Dolphins are still open to hammering out a long-term deal with Landry, but it’s hard to see how either side comes off its respective number. So a trade is the likeliest outcome here.
But to whom? A trade partner has to have a need at wide receiver, plenty of cap space to write Landry the extension he wants, and be a team with which the Dolphins are willing to work.

That would presumably (although not definitely) eliminate the AFC East teams and, unless relations between Adam Gase and John Elway have thawed, the Broncos. Also, Mike Tannenbaum might be uneasy about doing another deal with the Eagles after helping Philadelphia win a Super Bowl. Trades with the Dolphins, either directly or indirectly, brought Carson Wentz and Jay Ajayi to Philly.

...

Despite their financial limitations, the Ravens seem like a real option; the two sides reportedly were talking terms on a Landry trade last year, and safety Eric Weddle has been begging Landry to sign in Baltimore on social media.

The Browns make sense, too, as Landry’s receivers coach at LSU, Adam Henry, would be his position coach in Cleveland. They have picks to trade, too, owning six of the first 65 selections of this year’s draft. The Niners, meanwhile, surely want to surround their quarterback, Jimmy Garoppolo, with assets.


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