If we had to trade with Rams, this should have been the one: Alec Ogletree

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If we had to trade with Rams, this should have been the one: Alec Ogletree

Post by JMP on Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:36 pm

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-rams-are-trading-lb-alec-ogletree-to-giants-for-two-draft-picks/ar-BBJZgld?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, the Rams are trading linebacker Alec Ogletree to the New York Giants for two draft picks in 2018.

In return, the Rams will reportedly receive a fourth- and sixth-round pick. They're also sending a 2019 seventh-round pick to the Giants.

I generally don't like trading for vets, but this is a deal I would have liked a lot more than the Quinn trade. Ogletree is one of the top 4-3 MLBs in the league and would have transformed our defense a lot more than adding Quinn will. The Rams got rid of him because he isn't a great fit in the 3-4 they run. Ogletree is arguably the best coverage LB in the game and is stout against the run - and the Giants got him for next to nothing. No

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Re: If we had to trade with Rams, this should have been the one: Alec Ogletree

Post by HalCHorn on Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:33 pm

I think with the Dolphins' "brain trust" going through trade options is about like Max Bialystock and Leo Bloom picking out plays:

Gase: "The Rams are offering Ogletree and a 7th for a 4th and a 6th."
Tannenbaum: (reads the offer) "Nah, it's too good." (tosses it aside)

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Re: If we had to trade with Rams, this should have been the one: Alec Ogletree

Post by white1 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:11 am

I agree in principal that Ogletree fills more of a need. However, he's also REALLY expensive. Further, I still prefer to build the trenches.

We can argue whether Quinn is still worth a damn, but given the rest of the ends on our roster, it's not a bad move in an attempt to add a 27 year old player with proven pass rush skills to the mix.

Wake is old, and likely playing his last season in Miami.

Branch has been lackluster his whole career.

Harris MIGHT pan out, but for now looks far from the pass rushing threat we were hoping to get when drafting him in round 1.

Take Wake out of the equation, and Quinn has the most upside of the bunch IMO.


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Re: If we had to trade with Rams, this should have been the one: Alec Ogletree

Post by JMP on Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:59 am

white1 wrote:I agree in principal that Ogletree fills more of a need.  However, he's also REALLY expensive.  Further, I still prefer to build the trenches.

We can argue whether Quinn is still worth a damn, but given the rest of the ends on our roster, it's not a bad move in an attempt to add a 27 year old player with proven pass rush skills to the mix.

Wake is old, and likely playing his last season in Miami.  

Branch has been lackluster his whole career.

Harris MIGHT pan out, but for now looks far from the pass rushing threat we were hoping to get when drafting him in round 1.

Take Wake out of the equation, and Quinn has the most upside of the bunch IMO.


But in comparison, we have a bunch of DEs (whether they're good or not) and we're really thin at LB. At his best, Quinn cancels out Wake (assuming we dump him, which I think is likely). So it's not actually an upgrade. But Ogletree would have been a colossal upgrade - and he would also transform the defense, something Quinn won't do.

Ogletree also isn't that expensive - his cap hit is $10 million in each of the next three seasons, and then $9 million in 2021. Quinn's cap hit is $11.4+ million this season, and $12.9+ next season.

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Re: If we had to trade with Rams, this should have been the one: Alec Ogletree

Post by white1 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:51 am

It's a valid point. Ogletree would go more directly to a need position.

I was thinking Wake would play for us in 2018, but that would be his last season here. Of course, they could release him right now. Anything could happen. I would think he still has value, and we need four ends on the roster anyways. Why create another "need"?

Oh, I forgot - we are talking about the Dolphins. Yeah they will probably cut Wake with no plan for his replacement...

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Re: If we had to trade with Rams, this should have been the one: Alec Ogletree

Post by JMP on Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:09 pm

white1 wrote:It's a valid point.  Ogletree would go more directly to a need position.

I was thinking Wake would play for us in 2018, but that would be his last season here.  Of course, they could release him right now.  Anything could happen.  I would think he still has value, and we need four ends on the roster anyways.  Why create another "need"?

Oh, I forgot - we are talking about the Dolphins.  Yeah they will probably cut Wake with no plan for his replacement...

I still think Wake is the best DE on the roster. The problem is, we now have three right DEs (Quinn, Branch, Harris) and just one left DE (Wake). Quinn is a starter, and Harris almost has to be a starter to justify his draft status. I'm envisioning the starters as Quinn at RDE and Harris at LDE. So where does that leave Wake? I suppose you can kick Quinn or Harris inside on passing downs and put Wake in...but that makes the interior DL really light if teams do want to run. I don't know...it seems to me that Wake is the odd man out.

AND...considering that we are currently slated to pay over $30 million to three DEs in 2018, I think something has to give.

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Re: If we had to trade with Rams, this should have been the one: Alec Ogletree

Post by white1 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:09 pm

Quinn is a starter, and Harris almost has to be a starter to justify his draft status. I'm envisioning the starters as Quinn at RDE and Harris at LDE.

That's probably how I would do it. I thought I read the team wants Wake coming off the bench in pass rush situations, which lines up with what you have said.

In this scenario, Wake still has a lot of value as a pass rushing threat, and I agree he is our best DE. Just getting older, can't expect him to hold up to a high number of snaps at a very physical position.

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Re: If we had to trade with Rams, this should have been the one: Alec Ogletree

Post by rightchea on Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:42 pm

that probably what best for Wake at the moment. he age make it hard for him to play every down

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Re: If we had to trade with Rams, this should have been the one: Alec Ogletree

Post by JMP on Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:52 pm

white1 wrote:
Quinn is a starter, and Harris almost has to be a starter to justify his draft status. I'm envisioning the starters as Quinn at RDE and Harris at LDE.

That's probably how I would do it.  I thought I read the team wants Wake coming off the bench in pass rush situations, which lines up with what you have said.

In this scenario, Wake still has a lot of value as a pass rushing threat, and I agree he is our best DE.  Just getting older, can't expect him to hold up to a high number of snaps at a very physical position.

But who goes to the bench if Wake is the pass rush specialist? Harris and Quinn are supposed to be pass rushers, and as I noted they are too small to kick inside. Maybe Wake plays OLB and blitzes from there??? That could work, but could also be predictable.

I still think Wake is going to get cut. Just too much money on the defensive line.

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Re: If we had to trade with Rams, this should have been the one: Alec Ogletree

Post by white1 on Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:09 am

But who goes to the bench if Wake is the pass rush specialist? Harris and Quinn are supposed to be pass rushers, and as I noted they are too small to kick inside.

I read a good article with some thoughts from Jason Taylor today.  

To echo what he said, no one plays 100% snaps anymore.  I would think when Wake comes in at his natural position in pass rush situations, you give Harris a breather on the bench.  Quinn and Branch will have some kind of rotation going on the other side.

Just wanted to add one more thing. In all likelihood, this is a one season situation anyways. I don't see much of a draw back to getting Harris some rest as he grows into an NFL starter. I can't see Wake on the roster in 2019. We will bring in another DE through draft or free agency to add to Branch, Quinn and Harris. I would think a bigger guy that can set the edge well against the run.


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Re: If we had to trade with Rams, this should have been the one: Alec Ogletree

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