Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

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Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by rightchea on Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:31 am

Chris Wesseling wrote:"It's tough to explain as far as exactly what we're looking to be because we've changed a lot of our personnel and every week is so different. You're playing all of these different styles of teams and you have to be able to morph into what you need to do to win that game."

If that sounds eerily similar to Bill Belichick's opponent-specific approach, it's no coincidence. Gase's football philosophy has been influenced by his dynastic AFC East rival.

"The beginning of my career was [Alabama coach] Nick Saban," Gase explained. "I think Mike Martz had a big impact on me. Then you look at, I think, Josh McDaniels had a big impact on me. And two of those guys are from that tree. That has allowed me to kind of learn from their experiences."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000923452/article/adam-gase-dolphins-looking-to-belichick-for-identity

oh and this.....

wrote:1. Gase expressed a level of frustration with the business decisions that ended Miami's relationships with Suh, Pouncey and Landry.

"The whole process of all of this is not easy," Gase said. "In this day and age, there's a different relationship there. I think it's not so much here's who's in charge and there's this hierarchy there. Players and coaches and front offices, everybody's kind of in it together. And when somebody leaves it's tough. I mean it's tough for everybody.

"When Mike Pouncey gets released, that's not easy to go through. It's horrible. That's somebody that this organization has been with for a long period of time. ... All he's been trying to do is help this organization win. He's given everything he has to it. And when that time comes and we wend up doing that, that's a brutal phone call to have to make and have that conversation."

2. If free-agent quarterback Jay Cutler resumes his 2017 plans to enter the broadcast booth, Gase expects his formal pupil to pull no punches:

So the lack of identity is because Adam Gase is trying to copy someone else instead of finding it own...that sounds like a great coach.

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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by JMP on Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:08 am

Everything Gase says is total bullshit. The only time I've seen him drastically change his gameplan is the second game against the Patriots this season. Otherwise, the gameplan looks exactly the same every week - and it sucks...crappy offense, defense and special teams.

I feel like these last two seasons have been a complete waste of time. Even with making the playoffs in 2016, this team still has no identity and no real vision. It's a roster that is seriously lacking in talent, and a coaching staff that has not achieved much success anywhere else. We're no better now than we were in 2016 - and we are probably even worse.

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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by white1 on Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:25 pm

I shared in a recent post the fact I can understand some of the logic leading to these moves, and that I actually like some of them.

Ross apparently questioned the philosophy before he authorized the higher profile moves (likely Landry, Suh, and possibly Pouncey once we realized we could get an experienced starting center for cheap).

HOWEVER. These are bold moves. Bold. By that, I mean there is more than just a little bit of risk when players this good, and this high profile, are removed from the team. It's anyone's guess how it will ultimately work out.

If this season is a total loss - and there is a chance it could be - Ross will have some very tough decisions to make. I don't think anyone is safe, but I'm skeptical that he would totally clean house. Just hasn't been his style.

I do think somebody's head will roll, and probably more than one, if this season is a disaster. 6-10 would probably be bad enough to cause real change in the front office.


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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by finfanatic on Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:31 pm

W1, given the past history of the Phins, when they let a talented proven player go and attempt to replace him, either in the draft or in free agency, has it EVER worked out?

And I see no reason to think these moves are going to be any better IMO.

The CRUX of the problem for the past thirty-forty years has been abject failure the talent identification and development ability of the Phins; or rather the almost total LACK THEREOF!!

They cannot find good players in the draft, they do not develop those players they do draft, and if they DO MANAGE to slip up and draft a couple of good players, they are shipped off at the first opportunity for a handful of beans. Ajayi and Landry.

And even in free agency where you have a history to judge a player's merits, the Phins have been unable to get THAT RIGHT. Despite setting the league's highest paid at the position a few times, Mike Wallace and Suh, the Phins have NOTHING to show for it.

As JMP states, it seems like the whole franchise is directionless. They are just making moves to be making moves. The overall plan seems to be to make some moves when they have a chance to make moves. Whether the moves are the correct ones and ultimately lead to the ultimate goal, they do not seem to care.

I have no problems with a Phan being completely disillusioned and expecting extreme stench from the Phins.

The stench has lingered, with a couple of good seasons, through different Head Coaches, different GMs, and different owners.

Somebody needs to hire a good hoodoo person to take the bad hoodoo off the Phins. That's as good as explanation as any, I guess.


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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by HalCHorn on Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:35 pm

Stephen Ross in the paper today: "It's harder to win in the NFL than it is in business."

My response: "It's impossible to win in either when you hire people who don't know what the Hell they are doing."

Bold moves, no doubt, to jettison Landry, Pouncey and Suh among others. And I have no problem with those. But using the savings to sign Amendola, Gore, Osweiler, Quinn, et al whose best days are clearly behind them--clueless. Stop trading draft picks. Start accumulating them. Stop signing dead end veterans or those on the wrong side of 30. Stop signing guys the Pats and Steelers were willing to let go.

Start treating draft picks like they have some actual value. We haven't had anyone do that since JJ, and it shows.

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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by JMP on Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:27 pm

You know, it's a bit of a cliche, but in sports talent always trumps everything else. That's really the bottom line, and the fact is, on March 28 this Dolphins roster is not as talented as it was at the end of the season...it's just not. You don't lose a player like Suh and have no plan to replace him and just assume everything's OK. We've gotten older, that's for sure, but "older" doesn't necessarily mean "better" in the NFL.

You can make a case that the coaching staff has been somewhat upgraded, which is good, but I'm not convinced it will make a difference unless Gase completely changes the way he runs this team.

We've been through this before - major turnover on both the roster and coaching staff, filling all the holes with retreads across the board. It just doesn't work. You need to BUILD, not patch. This is the proverbial "band-aid on a shotgun wound" approach that we've seen many times as Dolfans. Why would I be dumb enough to think that it will work this time?

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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by Degarmo on Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:32 pm

I honestly don't think Ross' hard decisions are hard at all. I just don't think he wants to make them.

In a business, to become huge, you must be cutthroat at times. You can't waffle and be a putz. You must know how to evaluate talent on your management team and prune dead wood quickly and without mercy.

It's easy to see where the fault lies in the Phins' organization. Bad drafting over a course of several GMs, that's on scouting. Grier has been the main factor there, gone. Gase is a bullshit artist and does not have a good pedigree or plan. Gone. Tannenbaum is an abortion that was blackballed out of the NFL for very good reason after ruining a promising franchise. Gone.

That's just three easy ones. I'm sure there is plenty of evidence to clean house.

Ross just doesn't want to.
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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by mercury22nathan on Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:42 am

Degarmo wrote:Ross just doesn't want to.  

sadly, you are a lot closer to the truth many of us realize.

After deciding to part ways with some of their best players (Ndamukong Suh and Jarvis Landry, and later, Mike Pouncey), was any thought given to blowing it up and embarking on a rebuilding project instead of merely trying to fill holes with older stopgaps?

Ross deferred to Tannenbaum, and the answer wasn’t surprise: absolutely not.

Ross, at 77, has no desire to begin a rebuilding project, even if some might see merit in that.

Tannenbaum — who, like any executive, wants to keep his job — is of no mind-set to sell Ross on a long-term rebuilding job.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article207140084.html

so because the Phins have an old owner who may not be around to see the end result of rebuild, this team will continue with the strategy of plugging holes with older stopgaps for the foreseeable future.

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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by mercury22nathan on Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:45 am

JMP wrote:You don't lose a player like Suh and have no plan to replace him and just assume everything's OK.

oh come now JMP, you don't trust these guys? (followed by snickering laughter)

Our understanding is that even though the Dolphins intend to add at least one more defensive tackle, they don’t believe that he absolutely must be a starter. They would be fine entering the season with Jordan Phillips and Davon Godchaux as starters.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article207140084.html

there's the plan.

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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by white1 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:55 am

so because the Phins have an old owner who may not be around to see the end result of rebuild, this team will continue with the strategy of plugging holes with older stopgaps for the foreseeable future.

That's the height of pessimism. By my count, it took the Eagles TWO years to not only contend, but win, a Superbowl.

How long does he think "rebuilding" takes?

If you've got the right GM, and he hires the right coach, and just a couple things break your way - a franchise can turn around very quickly. I could point to Jacksonville also, where Coughlin - Marrone turned the franchise into a contender virtually overnight.

With the team we have in place, they could flounder, plug holes, make moves, trade up in the draft, trade down, sign free agents, go expensive in free agency, go cheap, blow it up, draft start over... this process could last INDEFINITELY.



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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by mercury22nathan on Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:56 am

finfanatic wrote:The CRUX of the problem for the past thirty-forty years has been abject failure the talent identification and development ability of the Phins; or rather the almost total LACK THEREOF!!

They cannot find good players in the draft, they do not develop those players they do draft,

and the Phins fully recognize and admit this.

with the signing of Gore, Sitton, Kilgore, Amendola, Osweiler and Quinn the Phins have called the justification of...

These additions bring to the Dolphins 49 postseason games worth of experience. They bring seven Super Bowl appearances. They bring four Super Bowl victories on their résumé.

“I think the common thread is we’re just trying to get guys with experience winning, who have been successful, have done it right, are professionals and are just good examples,” coach Adam Gase said.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article207152044.html

of course Timmons and Julius Thomas had playoff and Super Bowl experience too...how'd that workout? but Miami readily admits they can not identify these "winning" players themselves so are content poaching the past-their-prime castoffs of previously successful teams.

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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by JMP on Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:56 am

Yeah, well I guess we'll see how good Philllips and Godchaux look without Suh to take on double-teams. Neither one looked all that good with Suh, so I'm not exactly expecting big things from them.

I'm all for moving on from high-priced vets and replacing them with young players you developed - as long as those young players are worthwhile. Phillips looks like a slug more often than not, and Godchaux looks like a part-time rotational lineman. Neither one is an impact player, especially in this scheme. They can say what they want, but the reality is that losing Suh creates an enormous hole in the middle - and they need to do something to fix it.

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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by finfanatic on Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:57 am

Since they already have two so-so DTs, no need to sign an aging Vet with experience. They will draft a young guy to plug in the rotation and be SCADS Better off than with SuH!! Rolling Eyes

I agree, this seems like a scenario we have seen before and it had a "turrible, turrible" outcome as Charles Barkley would say.

I just do not see how any of this is going to work out.

Assuming the draft is as underwhelming as we all expect it to be, this has all the earmarks of a failed season that Gase will be lucky to survive IMO. Especially if he loses the team with some more questionable moves.

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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by white1 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:23 am

Agree on that last point. If you're releasing a superstar DT only to burn a first round pick to fill the new gap in the roster.... that's not how it's done.

Draft picks should be ASCENDING to TAKE THE JOB of an older vet, and play better than that vet. It doesn't work the other way around. I'm thinking about that year we had to trade up one spot to draft Vernon Carey, a very average right tackle - in the first round.


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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by HalCHorn on Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:29 am

I think it all comes to a head in 2018.  This off-season has a very 2006-2007 off-season feel to it.

Coming off a 6-10 season.

Trading the best WR on the team, an emerging player, for two draft picks.  Welker then, Landry now.  Welker brought more in return, though.  Hell, he brought more in return than Ajayi and Landry put together.

Bringing in a veteran pass-rusher with questions: Porter then, Quinn now.

Planning little more at QB than relying on an injury prone vet: Tanny now, Trent Green then.

Bringing in lots of old guys and relying on them.  Then it was Green, Holliday, Schulters, etc.

And no question, look at those teams picking ahead of us: 49ers, Browns, et al have made moves that should enable them to leapfrog us, and the Bucs, Colts and Raiders to name 3 just need a return to health for some key players (and should get better through the draft than us too).

I see 2-14 or perhaps worse on the horizon.  Will that be enough to get Ross to clean house?  We can only hope.

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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by white1 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:45 am

I see 2-14 or perhaps worse on the horizon. Will that be enough to get Ross to clean house? We can only hope.

Oh I can't see this front office surviving a 2-14 season. I said in another post 10 losses is enough to doom this group.

Ross said he wants to see progress, regardless of record. Well, it's hard to make that case if you go 10-6, then 6-10 (or worse) in the next two seasons.

The fins have to at least BE IN POSITION to make the playoffs come December this year. I think they need AT LEAST 8 wins to keep the front office safe.

From where I'm sitting now, there is a huge amount of risk to meeting those goals. Not impossible, because I actually like the moves to fortify the offensive line.

Skill position talent remains a concern, and what do we do on defense?

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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by HalCHorn on Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:55 am

And about that "winning culture", well, you know, for 22 games, this team had a way of pulling games out they had no business winning. 4-2 this year after 10-6 last year.

And then they gave away Ajayi for nothing in a tantrum like fit. 2-7 after that trade. Oh, and the rest of the guys who contributed to what WAS shaping up to be a culture of winning games we shouldn't? i.e. Landry? Gone.

2007 coming. I think Dolfan is right.

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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by DolFan 316 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:22 pm

HalCHorn wrote:2007 coming.  I think Dolfan is right.

Not the first time I've seen those words. And it doesn't give me nearly as much pleasure nearly as often as you'd think.

At some point, when a bad team keeps getting worse each offseason, the bottom must drop out. Since Gase isn't an all-time worst NFL coach like Cam was, maybe this team will have 3-4 wins instead of just one. Maybe.

Also, I fail to see how a team's culture can be changed all that much if the players brought in to improve it keep retiring after 1 or 2 seasons, necessitating more geezers being brought in who retire after 1-2 seasons, etc. But maybe that's just me.

Also, it would be just our luck that Ross winds up living well into his 90s like Ralph Wilson, while being scared to rebuild the entire time because of his age. Not wishing death upon Ross of course, just sayin'.


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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by DolFan 316 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:29 pm

HalCHorn wrote:And about that "winning culture", well, you know, for 22 games, this team had a way of pulling games out they had no business winning.  4-2 this year after 10-6 last year.

Funny you should say that. Over the past 3 seasons only two teams have fewer wins by 9 or more than the Fins. And one of them is Cleveland.

http://pfref.com/tiny/S8pMZ

In the Gase Era, the Fins are tied with the Colts and Jets for fewest such wins.

http://pfref.com/tiny/4kvYq

When these close wins become losses due to the constant talent drain--from a team that has precious little of it to begin with--that's when it'll get really bad.

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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by Degarmo on Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:26 pm

I don't believe Ross is scared of dying before something major happens. I believe his legacy that he wants for the team is to wallow in mediocrity (or even worse) for the tenure of his existence as an owner, then when he walks away (or is buried) to leave the team in shambles with a low-population fan base and a possible moving of the team.

Yes, I'm serious. You can tell when someone cares about a team. Ross could give less than a shit about the Dolphins. He's just here doing what he's told to do.

I'll stop there before you call me crazy Razz
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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by rightchea on Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:01 pm

I totally agree with you Degarmo. Ross is at the point that he fulfilled his bucket list and now the he just going through the motions. He allowing Tannebaum and Gase do whatever. Another thing about him is I really don't feel like he is a great business owner but just great at getting lucky.

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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by Degarmo on Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:07 am

That's a lot of "making it" in business, that being lucky part. Smile
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Re: Gase can't find own identity stealing from Pats????

Post by Umix10 on Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:18 pm

Gase is a wannabe Offensive Coordinator moonlighting as a Head Coach. This is the type BS that drives fans to stay home on gamedays. There are simple fixes to this but not something he is willing to do. The locker room by all accounts has been a stand off with a line drawn in the middle. Coaches on one side (Gase) and players on the other. A divide in the locker room is what's driving the team crazy. Gase is not a players coach. Which is why these mother bithches suck ass. He was never a player. He got started in the film room. Just because I watch tons of NFL football doesn't make me a HC candidate, however my Madden record disagrees. If he just took some time and connected with the players. If he would just stop standing up and saying i'm the boss. If he just understood the first rule of coaching, "Players win games, Coaches lose games". He wouldn't have to ask for respect in the locker room. He'd already have it.
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