Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by JMP on Wed May 09, 2018 10:27 am

That might be the post of the year, Hal. Well done.

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by finfanatic on Thu May 10, 2018 11:15 am

Agreed with JMP, excellent post Hal.

Right on the money.

I will keep saying it until I see something change: There is NO PLAN in place for the Phins. No method for them to get better systematically. They take a plug and play attitude every year to try an maintain the status quo, and if anything goes wrong (Tannehill's knee injury) there is no depth or backups behind the starters to get back to the status quo.

This is like a bunch of cosplay folks dressed like an NFL Front office, making "fantasy football" moves as if they were REAL.

I just do not have any confidence in them and I think it is plain to see for everyone (even Ross) these guys are just PRETENDING that they have a plan.

This sort of "lack of confidence" has a trickle down effect IMO. Gase fended it off two seasons ago, but as the team gets less talented, and Gase keeps demanding the players need to execute better, even when everyone can see the talent on the field is lesser than before, I suspect Gase' schtick is gonna get old in a hurry.

But who knows? Maybe we will be surprised again.

I doubt it, but... who knows?

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by JMP on Thu May 10, 2018 11:23 am

Nice, FF. The plug and play attitude is the problem...these guys really do not know how to build a team that can sustain long-term success. There's no focus on development, and no urgency to find potential stars. It's just fill holes with veterans, and draft mostly career role players. Sure, they have the ability to draft a potentailly great player every now and then if one falls in their lap (like Fitzpatrick and Tunsil...who has been mediocre at best), but that doesn't take much skill. It just seems like all the people at the top of this organziation lack vision and lack the football intelligence to make the right decisions.


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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by white1 on Thu May 10, 2018 1:14 pm

Don't get me started on Tunsil.

O linemen RARELY ever "bust", but he's coming pretty darn close to a Erik-Flowers-Caliber pick.

The way he was ranked going into that draft, I was hoping for much, much more from him. Disappointing.

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by Umix10 on Thu May 10, 2018 2:44 pm

I get the frustration. It’s difficult to see the end game when so many mistakes are made. Difficult to see a team identity with a heavy roster churn. Even more difficult to see when the coaching staff changes as much as the tax laws.

I have been frustrated for years because of the situation Miami put itself in by overpaying past production free agents. I thought they started the off season really well by unloading high priced players. I thought this would be the year they get the cap under control. But they do something stupid and trade for a pass rusher whose production the last theee years doesn’t equate to the money he is paid. This team is way too contradictory to see any type of vision!!!
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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by JMP on Thu May 10, 2018 6:08 pm

Umix10 wrote:I get the frustration.  It’s difficult to see the end game when so many mistakes are made.  Difficult to see a team identity with a heavy roster churn. Even more difficult to see when the coaching staff changes as much as the tax laws.

I have been frustrated for years because of the situation Miami put itself in by overpaying past production free agents.  I thought they started the off season really well by unloading high priced players.  I thought this would be the year they get the cap under control.  But they do something stupid and trade for a pass rusher whose production the last theee years doesn’t equate to the money he is paid.  This team is way too contradictory to see any type of vision!!!

Yep. And the other issue with this year's salary dump was you get rid of the team's best player on offense (Landry) and best player on defense (Suh), but you keep godawful contracts from mediocre players like Branch, Alonso and McDonald. How does that make sense? I have no problem dumping expensive players if it's done to improve the team, but that's not the case here.

And going back, you throw boatloads of $$$ at Alonso and McDonald when you could've had both on really cheap deals, but you treat Landry like he's a dog and don't offer him a contract till after he's franchised. WTF? What kind of planning is that???

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by Degarmo on Thu May 10, 2018 7:15 pm

They say Ross isn't a "football guy", right? Either he knows the game or not. It's not that difficult to figure out what makes a winner. If he can't figure that, he has no idea what football even is. He would have to be insanely out of touch with the game to not recognize basics. Business-wise, hiring a guy like Tannenbaum is suicide, and you just don't do it. If the entire league says this guy is a cancerous mass of dog crap, and he's already buried one team, you don't hire him, you don't, you just don't. Ross did.

I believe he knows what he's doing. I believe his plan is working just fine. I believe he didn't want Fitzpatrick because it filled a need with an excellent player.

Yeah, I'm wearing a tinfoil hat right now.
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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by Umix10 on Thu May 10, 2018 8:51 pm

This is the head scratchingly painful thought that goes through my mind.....yes Ross is NOT a football guy. But he IS a sharp business man. His downfall is not doing his due diligence and surround himself with ideal “football guys” as opposed to people familiar with him. I.e Tannenbaum and Petersen.

He is a sharp real estate guy! No doubt but in the end, he separated football from business and he shouldn’tt have. He let them have too much say.
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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by JMP on Thu May 10, 2018 9:40 pm

In a league where front office staff go from team to team just as much as coaches do, it's important to note that - and I'm emphasizing this - MIKE TANNENBAUM COULD NOT GET HIRED AS A TOILET CLEANER IN THE NFL after his stint with the Jets. He was out of football for YEARS before the Phins hired him. It's truly mind-boggling...not one team in the NFL would hire him in any capacity for years...yet Ross thought he was the right man to run his team. Total incompetence on Ross's part.

Sure, I hope that Tannebaum turns the Phins into champions. I also hope that I'll win the lottery despite the fact that I never actually buy lottery tickets. Neither one is likely to happen.

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by white1 on Fri May 11, 2018 8:05 am

MIKE TANNENBAUM COULD NOT GET HIRED AS A TOILET CLEANER IN THE NFL after his stint with the Jets. He was out of football for YEARS before the Phins hired him.

I'm envious of the Browns right now. That's right, the Browns.

Just look at the talent they brought into their front office, and the moves they've made this offseason. Even if Hue Jackson is not the right head coach, he'll be gone after this year and they can hire a coach hand picked by the new leadership.

They have a veteran QB in Tyrod Taylor, and their top choice from this year's crop as a rookie. I believe Mayfield, by the way, was the unconventional but correct choice here.

Let's take a look at some of the talent they've assembled. Gordon and Landry at WR. Myles Garrett at DE. They chose the best press corner in the draft this year when they chose Ward.

Look at that team and that roster, and tell me with a straight face you wouldn't trade our team wholesale for what they have right now. I can't.



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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by JMP on Fri May 11, 2018 8:58 am

Yep, you're absolutely right. The Browns are absolutely trending upward...the Dolphins are trending sideways, if not downward. That Browns roster is pretty damn stacked right now, and that front office looks fantastic. They understand the value of draft picks and they aren't afraid to make difficult decisions.

On draft day I thought the Browns made a mistake taking Mayfield and Ward instead of Darnold and Chubb. But in retrospect, I think they did a great job. I'm not quite sold on Mayfield, but that's more because of his height than anything else. Beyond height, he seems like the total package. And Ward could transform that secondary. Regardless, this is a team you can get excited about when you look at the next couple of years. In contrast, the Phins appear to be treading water.

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by white1 on Fri May 11, 2018 9:47 am

I thought the same about Chubb, thought for sure they would pair him with Garrett and create a beast of a DL.

Apparently, there is another DE on the side opposite Garrett and he was a 2nd round pick. They like the guy a lot and he is trending upwards. So need definitely weighed in here, they absolutely had to have help in the secondary, so they took the best CB on the board.

Darnold.... I don't know. Some scouts were really critical of his game leading up to the draft. Don't know if that was real or smoke screen, but the fact the Browns passed on him brings some credibility to those critiques.

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by mercury22nathan on Fri May 11, 2018 9:50 am

JMP wrote:And going back, you throw boatloads of $$$ at Alonso and McDonald when you could've had both on really cheap deals, but you treat Landry like he's a dog and don't offer him a contract till after he's franchised.  WTF?  What kind of planning is that???

and you want to know how to make that "plan" look even worse?

There's been much speculation about whether the Dolphins are thinking about a scheme change on defense in 2018.

"No," Gase said when asked about that.

Gase obviously likes Minkah Fitzpatrick. But he says the plan right now is to keep T.J. McDonald at safety so the speculation that McDonald is moving to linebacker seems a bit misguided at this point.

"He's not moving to linebacker," Gase said. "He's going to be a safety and we're going to figure out a way to get our best 11 players on the field."

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article210854319.html

you draft the potentially most impactful defensive playmaker the team has seen in years and then sit him behind a veteran with a bloated contract - how's that for a "plan"?

not enough?

And the fact it took Gase a while to be convinced to sign Osweiler while he really likes Fales may be one reason the issue is not resolved.

"I probably took longer than everybody else," Gase said of coming around on Osweiler. "Guys [within the organization] were talking about he's 27 years old ... I had to make sure he was good understanding the situation we were in and what he was going to be competing for. I didn't know what his money was."

so wait, the HC had been around Osweiler and wasn't convinced he was a good signing. so the front office had to convince him?? nice "plan" - let's sign a QB that our "QB-whisperer" HC doesn't want.

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by JMP on Fri May 11, 2018 11:55 am

Damn, merc...those quotes you posted don't exactly breed confidence.

On TJ McDonald - I never really believed he was going to play LB, despite the rumors.  First, he's not a LB and I don't see why anyone would want him to be one.  Second, the Phins showed zero interest in using him at LB last season.  Third, drafting Baker pretty much guaranteed that TJ wasn't playing LB.

What scares me is this: the Phins seem hesitant to start rookies right away, so what happens with Fitzpatrick?  There have been exceptions, notably Tunsil, but it seems like they prefer vets.  I could absolutely see our starting safeties as Jones and McDonald, with Fitzpatrick coming off the bench in certain situations - at least early on.  Personally, I think that would be a huge mistake.  Fitzpatrick makes this defense so much more dynamic, and IMO he needs to be on the field every down from day one.

On Osweiler - what a joke.  Seems like this staff just doesn't seem to understand the QB position.


Last edited by JMP on Fri May 11, 2018 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by finfanatic on Fri May 11, 2018 12:12 pm

Yep.

The franchise is like a dysfunctional family.

The owner wants one thing, the front office is a buncha drunken monkeys flinging poop and have no idea how to build a team, and the HC might have one more fit of pique (trading away another GOOD player) which will finally LOSE him the team for good IMO.

I tell you, this whole situation harkens back to Cam-Mueller IMO. Sad to say, but...

EGAD!


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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by DolFan 316 on Fri May 11, 2018 4:13 pm

Maybe there was actually a good reason Ross hated the Fitz pick after all, hmmm...

This latest news downgrades this draft to a C- IMO.

Again, Edmunds and Rudolph were RIGHT THERE for the taking.

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by JMP on Fri May 11, 2018 4:23 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:Maybe there was actually a good reason Ross hated the Fitz pick after all, hmmm...

This latest news downgrades this draft to a C- IMO.

Again, Edmunds and Rudolph were RIGHT THERE for the taking.

Yeah, if Fitzpatrick is only a part-time player, the draft grade definitely goes down.

Gotta love this coaching staff...even when they get good players, they don't know what to do with them. No

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by Umix10 on Fri May 11, 2018 9:21 pm

JMP wrote:On TJ McDonald - I never really believed he was going to play LB, despite the rumors.  First, he's not a LB and I don't see why anyone would want him to be one.  Second, the Phins showed zero interest in using him at LB last season.


LMAO JMP. In the minds of the most notoriously bad GM/Coach/VP of Football operations. They thought that signing Allen and McDonald would be a good idea. Once McDonald returned from suspension they were going to plug McDonald in at LB and keep Nate Allen paired with Jones. But Allen got hurt and so they were forced to play McDonald exclusively at FS.

It's funny but remember at the end of last year Fase (Fake Ass gaSE) said he did a poor job of putting Grant on the field. He said the same thing again this year. He is a touchdown waiting to happen. But FASE does nothing about it.

IMHO, Roster purge this year or at the end, fire Gase, Grier and Tannebaum. Let the next regime build the team that they want.

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by HalCHorn on Fri May 11, 2018 9:50 pm

There is just no way that Fitzpatrick should be on the bench while Jones and McDonald play together in ANY situation.

One needs to be traded; Jones is the better player by a considerable margin, but is also 3 years older and likely has some value. Or perhaps cut one of the two at the end of camp if a trade can't be worked out and cut your losses. But Fitzpatrick needs to be out there, every down, playing FS. We have two strong safeties, and one SS spot. Pick one.

I think if a trade can't be worked out we need to cut McDonald. He simply does not need to be taking playing time from either Fitzpatrick OR Baker.

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by JMP on Sat May 12, 2018 12:15 am

HalCHorn wrote:There is just no way that Fitzpatrick should be on the bench while Jones and McDonald play together in ANY situation.

One needs to be traded; Jones is the better player by a considerable margin, but is also 3 years older and likely has some value.  Or perhaps cut one of the two at the end of camp if a trade can't be worked out and cut your losses.  But Fitzpatrick needs to be out there, every down, playing FS.  We have two strong safeties, and one SS spot.  Pick one.  

I think if a trade can't be worked out we need to cut McDonald.  He simply does not need to be taking playing time from either Fitzpatrick OR Baker.

This, X1000.

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by JMP on Sat May 12, 2018 12:21 am

Umix10 wrote: Once McDonald returned from suspension they were going to plug McDonald in at LB and keep Nate Allen paired with Jones.  But Allen got hurt and so they were forced to play McDonald exclusively at FS.  

I don't believe for a second that they were ever going to use McDonald at LB. I know there were rumors about that, but it just doesn't make sense and it's not how this coaching staff operates...they don't do creative things like that, especially on defense. I think it's more likely that they would have put Allen on the bench when McDonald came back.

This season, it might be interesting to start Jones and Fitzpatrick, and then use McDonald in dime situations. But unless things change - and Gase has said that the D won't change - we, literally, never use dime formations for some odd reason.

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by finfanatic on Mon May 14, 2018 10:01 am

Great Googly Moogly!! Just how freakin' stupid is this coaching staff?!!!

It boggles the mind.

I cannot help but remember when the Phins had drafted Vernon Carey in the 1st round, and had journeyman John St. Clair at RT, who was playing better than Carey, but.... The Phins were in the latter stages of a dismal season with nothing left to do but play for NEXT SEASON, and the freakin' idiotic, dumbarsed, moronic, OL Coach refused to let Carey play and get better for the FUTURE of the Franchise, because it would not be "FAIR"to dad-danged John ST. Clair!!!!

So FAIRNESS takes the place over what is in the best interest of the whole freakin' franchise!!! That is not good coaching nor team development IMHO. And apparently, the Phins are BESET with this sort of stupidity on the coaching staff.

Lets not forget the whole Dallas Thomas, Billy Turner debacle. My guess some OL Coach was worried about being FAIR to the two nitwits.

The Owner should have had this idiot (Vernon Carey Ol Coach, I do not remember his name, but he went on to build a solid Line for the Panthers I believe?) taken out behind the dumpster and beaten repeatedly, tarred and feathered, and then fired for blithering dumbassedness!!!

Lets hope this is just a rumble of nothingness. If the coaching staff reveals itself to be THAT stupid YET AGAIN...I will have lost what little remaining PHAITH I had/have in Gase and Co.

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by white1 on Mon May 14, 2018 10:49 am

If Fitzpatrick is as good as we think he is, he will make it clear that he needs to start at free safety. This season.

If that happens, then the challenge is to carve out a role for TJ McDonald or Reshad Jones. Or get rid of one of them through trade or release.

IMO Jones may be the one to go. Better trade bait, and higher salary cap impact. Is he really that important to what has been a bad defense? I don't think so.

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by rightchea on Mon May 14, 2018 12:23 pm

Now the thing we all have to think about is. what makes more sense for a team that is trying to think long term. Do you trade Jones and keep McDonald then release him at the end of the season with a better player from the draft or do you let go McDonald and keep Jones to make a push for the playoffs?

I see no issue with rotating them out and have your safeties healthy in the backfield. But on the other hand how you rotate someone that does have great vision or speed to make an INT when it is needed (McDonald). Also do you add Fitzpatrick in the line up with corners to cover man to man if need be or if someone is messing up? Fitzpatrick is a man with no position but at the same time how do you feel the needs in the secondary with just one player? Gase is expecting too much out of one guy to fix issues with multiple issue in the secondary.

Miami is 28th in the league in INT and 27th in fumbles recovered. 17th in passing yrds and 19th in rushing yrds. Miami needs more than just a DB that is out there if he not making plays or creating turnovers. Fitzpatrick will contribute IMO but he not going to be the savior that Gase wants him to be.

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Re: Report: Dolphins owner was against drafting Fitzpatrick

Post by JMP on Mon May 14, 2018 2:08 pm

Good post, rightchea.  

This season I would start Jones and Fitzpatrick and use McDonald as a backup/situational role player.  Assuming all 3 stay healthy (and out of trouble, in McDonald's case), then you re-evaluate after the season and make a choice to keep either Jones or McDonald.  It's stupid to keep both beyond this season, and next year we'll have the cap space to absorb dumping one of those bad contracts.  Personally, I'd rather keep Jones because he's the better player and he's been a Dolphin for a long time.

But yeah, bottom line: this secondary needs to get a whole helluva lot better. We're now relying on a bunch of young, unproven corners to step up, and that makes the safety play even more important. The bigger question is pass rush: do we have enough to hide the mistakes that the young DBs will inevitably make? I'm not sold at all on the pass rush, so I guess we'll see.

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