Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by rightchea on Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:06 am

wouldn't want no one from the Browns

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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by JMP on Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:57 am

rightchea wrote:wouldn't want no one from the Browns

I'd love to raid the current Browns' front office. They are building a great team there.

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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by white1 on Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:05 am

I'd say your best realistic candidate for GM right now is Eliot Wolf, Dorsey's assistant GM in Cleveland. He's young (36) but that means he could be here a long time.

Will McClay in Dallas is an excellent candidate for GM but I think it would take a lot to get him away from the Cowboys' organization.

George Paton in Minnesota is also highly regarded around the league, and ironically has been Spielman's assistant there for a while.

That's where my list would start, probably, in that order.

**********************************************************************************************

Love the idea of Eliot Wolf, and Ross is friendly with Ron Wolf...so there is at least some connection.

McClay and Paton are definitely hot names, too.

Other options I'd be interested in:
Alonzo Highsmith (Browns VP of Player Personnel)
Joe Douglas (Eagles VP of Player Personnel)
Terry McDonough (Cardinals VP of Player Personnel)

Ok, so between JMP and Hal we just listed about 6 guys in addition to the one I proposed, Riddick. IS IT SO FUCKING HARD to dump Tannenbaum, interview these guys and see which one connects the best with Ross and presents the most solid and intriguing plan to build our franchise?

Damn it's frustrating to watch this team from the outside! DO SOMETHING TO CHANGE!!!!


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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by rightchea on Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:16 am

hard to get rid of friends but when it comes to a business you do what you gotta to make money. Tannenbaum must be black mailing Ross or something

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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by white1 on Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:26 am

hard to get rid of friends but when it comes to a business you do what you gotta to make money. Tannenbaum must be black mailing Ross or something

Being a trusted friend earned him the opportunity. It's Year 3 of the opportunity given, and it looks like it's not going well. This is where you have the "we need to go in a different direction" conversation.

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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by finfanatic on Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:39 pm

Well, if it was easy, anyone could do it!!! Very Happy

I doubt any of us could do much worse than the current front office.

Again, as I see it, the MAIN PROBLEM is the drafting.

For some reason, the Phins cannot manage to draft talented cheap players that allow them to pay top dollar for the good players they need to keep. (Assuming this buncha goobers actually WANTED to keep those good players by paying them at the market rate.)

On the O-line, they cannot draft anyone to even make a good backup it seems.
And on the D-line, when they do draft someone who shows some talent, even inconsistently, Gase ships him off for a song and a promise of future delivery of some bad fruit!

I had hope after the first season, saw it turn to nervous anxiety after season two, and now I am at full blown despair that this current bunch seems to be just like the last several bunches; incompetent at football management.

Yet again, in the long sordid past of the Phins post-Shula, the Phins are looking at starting over with another clean house. Or they should IMHO. I doubt Ross will see it that way, but it seems like it is needed.





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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by white1 on Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:38 pm

For some reason, the Phins cannot manage to draft talented cheap players that allow them to pay top dollar for the good players they need to keep. (Assuming this buncha goobers actually WANTED to keep those good players by paying them at the market rate.)

This is a good point. In fact, we are going to see this play out in the near future with James and Tunsil.

I just read something (cant remember where) yesterday, the two tackles are actually playing well this season. Now is the time to lock up Tunsil while he's going to be signable for less than market value (still two years on rookie deal). Also, lock James in to avoid another hole at RT, who at least are more affordable.

So, will we sign them to long term extensions? Or let them walk in favor of the next "Sitton grade" free agent?


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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by rightchea on Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:31 pm

I agree miami needs to make sure that they are locked if they are doing so well.

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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by white1 on Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:34 pm

Clearly, I haven't broken down tape of the o-line or anything like that... but just a layman's view of the line seems to indicate our weakness lies where it usually does: the interior.

We are starting backups and castoffs at C and both G spots. Why not lock down the tackles (again, assuming they are having a good season) and invest in the interior spots through FA and draft.

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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by Degarmo on Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:15 pm

I've been begging for this team to fix the offensive line for years. They have addressed it so poorly with their choices. It could be a good line by now if anyone in the front office had any idea what to look for in an offensive lineman.
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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by JMP on Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:38 pm

white1 wrote:
For some reason, the Phins cannot manage to draft talented cheap players that allow them to pay top dollar for the good players they need to keep. (Assuming this buncha goobers actually WANTED to keep those good players by paying them at the market rate.)

This is a good point.  In fact, we are going to see this play out in the near future with James and Tunsil.  

I just read something (cant remember where) yesterday, the two tackles are actually playing well this season.  Now is the time to lock up Tunsil while he's going to be signable for less than market value (still two years on rookie deal).  Also, lock James in to avoid another hole at RT, who at least are more affordable.

So, will we sign them to long term extensions? Or let them walk in favor of the next "Sitton grade" free agent?


I think James is mediocre. He's a penalty machine with an injury history, who plays poorly just as much as he plays good. No way I'd give him a huge contract. I'd let him walk.

Tunsil is mostly good. Not great, but solid/good overall. I wouldn't extend him yet, but next season for sure. I really don't like the idea of giving him big $$$, but left tackles get paid.

The two guard positions are horrendous...just terrible. The team continually takes a "garbage in" approach, and the result is, as expected, "garbage out".

At center, Swanson and Brendel both seem to be serviceable. Nothing special, but with good guard play they should be fine.

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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by mercury22nathan on Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:33 am

i agree that Tunsil is the only one worth keeping. preferable through an affordable extension rather than waiting until he's close to free agency and will then cost a fortune. when that extension comes - well, i hope that will be a decision for the next regime replacing the current crop.

as a disclaimer - i was very much in favor of letting a declining injured Pouncey go. but does anyone else find it odd how in SD he's participated in every practice (no taking it easy to preserve him) and has since played quite well in starting every single game? add to that Miami's OL is one injury after another. so, was it a Pouncey problem or something is wrong with the Phins and their approach to preparing players?

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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by JMP on Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:51 am

mercury22nathan wrote:i agree that Tunsil is the only one worth keeping.  preferable through an affordable extension rather than waiting until he's close to free agency and will then cost a fortune.  when that extension comes - well, i hope that will be a decision for the next regime replacing the current crop.

as a disclaimer - i was very much in favor of letting a declining injured Pouncey go.  but does anyone else find it odd how in SD he's participated in every practice (no taking it easy to preserve him) and has since played quite well in starting every single game?  add to that Miami's OL is one injury after another.  so, was it a Pouncey problem or something is wrong with the Phins and their approach to preparing players?

I've heard several people credit Poucey as a huge part of making the SD offense consistent for the first time in years.

Given what we've seen with players like Pouncey (anchoring one of the league's top offenses), Ajayi (big contributor on a Super Bowl champ), Michael Thomas (dominating in nickle packages for the Giants), Jordan Phillips (a big piece of the Bills' strong DL), etc., it sure seems like the issue is "something is wrong with the Phins and their approach to preparing players".


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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by Degarmo on Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:16 am

Pouncey being healthy is the shock to me.

Then again, he's centering for Dan Marino present.  I swear, Phillip Rivers throws exactly like Marino. Same temperament too.
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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by Degarmo on Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:32 am

Dawn Aponte reveals the truth!

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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by JMP on Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:43 am

Degarmo wrote:Dawn Aponte reveals the truth!


So true. I said that from Gase's first press conference - he reminded me of a young Philbin right from the start.

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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by finfanatic on Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:55 pm

Gase has the same method for dealing with nutty-arse "problem" players that Queasy Joe did; cut them, trade them, ship them off.

On Tunsil - Yes I would try and lock him up. Does anyone REALLY think the Phins are going to be able to draft or sign another player who can do the job at the level Tunsil does? Bongmask Vidoes do not come along that often!

On James - I think when he is healthy, he plays fairly well. I just do not know if the Phins will be able to keep him unless they pay him. Some team will want him? I mean look at Todd Wade, whom the Texans ponied up the big signing bonus to get. Nowadays, it was a pittance, but back then, Wannstedt , the great Dumbarse, thought it was an astronomical sum.

There are always teams looking to OVERPAY for GOOD, when they have bad tackles IMO. And teams like the Phins, who have Good Tackles, but do not want to pay them like Great Tackles, let them go and look to replace them. And wind up with a John St Clair starting at RT and have to panic to move up in the draft and overpay big time for a Vernon Carey.

Again, if the Phins could draft with anything close to a 50/50 shot, I would take a chance on James walking, but when you draft like idjits and do free agency like buffoons, is anyone confident the Phins can replace a proven GOOD player with a better one?

I ain't. Because the Phins usually DON'T.

Pouncey - I think Pouncey saw what a load of crockery the Phins had for front office and coaching staff, and just CHOSE not to risk serious injury to himself on a lost cause. Now, on a good team, he has something to play for and is performing well.

Again, at some point, the Players will see through these dipshytes the Phins keep hiring as Head Coaches. It happened to Wannstedt, the owner kept him. It happened to Philbin, Ross kept him. and I am afraid it has happened to Gase. And Ross will probably keep Gase too.

There seems to be a pattern to all of this abject mediocrity, doesn't there?


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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by rightchea on Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:22 pm

JMP wrote:
white1 wrote:
For some reason, the Phins cannot manage to draft talented cheap players that allow them to pay top dollar for the good players they need to keep. (Assuming this buncha goobers actually WANTED to keep those good players by paying them at the market rate.)

This is a good point.  In fact, we are going to see this play out in the near future with James and Tunsil.  

I just read something (cant remember where) yesterday, the two tackles are actually playing well this season.  Now is the time to lock up Tunsil while he's going to be signable for less than market value (still two years on rookie deal).  Also, lock James in to avoid another hole at RT, who at least are more affordable.

So, will we sign them to long term extensions? Or let them walk in favor of the next "Sitton grade" free agent?


I think James is mediocre. He's a penalty machine with an injury history, who plays poorly just as much as he plays good. No way I'd give him a huge contract. I'd let him walk.

Tunsil is mostly good. Not great, but solid/good overall. I wouldn't extend him yet, but next season for sure. I really don't like the idea of giving him big $$$, but left tackles get paid.

The two guard positions are horrendous...just terrible. The team continually takes a "garbage in" approach, and the result is, as expected, "garbage out".

At center, Swanson and Brendel both seem to be serviceable. Nothing special, but with good guard play they should be fine.

to be honest not too many teams have great OL so locking down someone that we know and then getting someone that can be competition for them would make more sense

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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by JMP on Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:59 pm

I think you have to choose - Tunsil OR James. You can't pay $15+ million a year to two tackles, not if you want to build a complete roster. And if I'm choosing, I'm paying Tunsil and letting James walk.

Bottom line for me - James is unreliable and inconsistent...I'm not paying big bucks for that.

Eric Smith, Zach Sterup, Sam Young and even Jesse Davis (who is a natural tackle) are possible cheap, in-house solutions at RT. Or, you can draft a RT. A competent staff can easily find a RT. And if we stick with the stumbling bums we have (Gase, Tannenbaum and Grier) - it doesn't matter anyway, we're not going to win...so at least we save money. Why put a strain on future cap space with another overpaid mediocre player???


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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by Umix10 on Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:49 pm

I would choose neither.  I wouldn't let them walk either.  Trade them for picks use the draft to build.  I know, I know, I know........we have been saying this for years. On offense, the only players I'd keep is Stills and Drake.  Defense, Fitzpatrick.   I'd trade every body who could get me a 7th or better(LMAO).  Fill the rest of the team with 1 year stop gaps until this team finds itself.
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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by white1 on Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:05 pm

Thinking more on Tunsil and James.

I think Tunsil (!) is my top target to keep. I just read he has not allowed one sack this season, and has done it against some of the top tier pass rushers in the league. Hell yes that's worth paying for. We have the leverage NOW. Once he gets to his last year and looming free agency, that leverage disappears. Now is the time to sign him to a team-friendly deal.

James we might HAVE to keep, but RTs are cheaper anyways. And he does not have the track record to demand what the top dollar guys have gotten. So again, I probably err on the side of caution and lock him up in order to avoid creating ANOTHER gaping hole on the line which is already full of them.

It's so embarrassing to see this team enter each offseason with more needs than anyone can adequately address in one round of FA and a single draft class. At least TRY to figure out who is worth keeping on a bad offense, and build around them for once. Stop trying to make these whole sale changes, miss on half the guys you bring in, and end up worse off than before.

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Re: Game 11 thoughts: Phins at Colts

Post by white1 on Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:08 pm

Spoiler alert: This is what it looks like if we fail to re-sign James.

"Oh yeah we missed on the 3 guys we wanted at Right Tackle, so we signed this 33 year old backup who has a little bit of an injury history, but we like him and think he has the right character for our locker room. Sure he's almost as expensive as James, but he's a little cheaper so we saved cap space. Yeah, he might get hurt, but anyone can get hurt and with our sports science department we think we can manage his snaps and keep him healthy for a full 16 games PLUS (yeah we just alluded to making the playoffs)."

Has anyone seen this "movie" before? Shall I spoil the ending?

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