Josh Rosen thoughts

I was not in favor of trading a 2nd for Rosen, but last night after the draft (and after watching my Islanders lose a heartbreaker in OT...), I spent some time watching Rosen footage from UCLA. What I saw surprised me, in a good way.

The thing that immediately jumps out is Rosen's footwork. It is exceptional. He moves very well within the pocket, is never off-balance and steps into his throws. Comparing his footwork to 7 years of Tannehill is night and day. I think the footwork is a big part of why the Phins wanted him...it's the hardest thing to teach, and he's already well ahead of most young QBs. He's very smooth and comfortable moving around and stepping up.

Rosen is always looking to make a play downfield. And that's probably his biggest negative. Sometimes you need to go with the short pass and take what the D gives you, but he is always looking for the home run. That's teachable. I think he gets into trouble because he thinks his arm is stronger than it is. He doesn't have a cannon, but the arm strength looks plenty good enough.

His delivery is fine - very fluid, although it is a bit long and there is a slight hitch as he lets the ball go. Not a big concern, and should be easily correctable if needed.

Rosen seems to have a good feel for pressure and can avoid it - again, much better than Tannehill. He does take a lot of sacks, but again I think that is more related to him trying to make a big play than anything else. He also has not had good line play.

One other concern is his receivers dropped a lot of passes, both at UCLA and with the Cards. He seems to throw a very catchable ball, and his ball placement is above average, but it's hard to tell if the drops are more on him or on his receivers.

Rosen seems to read the field well and can go through his progressions, but again it seems like he ignores the underneath stuff too much. He looked excellent in red zone situations, by the way.

Anyway, what I see is a QB with a lot of tools to be not just good, but great. Now, if he ever gets to that level...I don't know. But everything you'd want in a franchise QB is there, if he can put it all together. We have two excellent QB coaches on staff now in Jim Caldwell and Chad O'Shea, and if anyone can maximize Rosen's potential it's them.

So I'll end by saying that I was wrong about Rosen. I think this was a potentially excellent trade for the Dolphins, and it is absolutely worthwhile low risk attempt to solve the biggest issue that has faced this team post-Marino.

I think we will have a genuine QB competition for the first time since I can't remember when. If Rosen can't beat Fitz out, then I don't see him being the man.

I for one am looking forward to this year for no other reason than actually giving a lot of young players a real chance to prove themselves and show potential for the future,

I don't see this giving us more than 4-5 wins, but I want to see growth and improvement from the young group. I want to see potential.

Now, let's get us a pass rusher today. Maybe a T.

I was rooting for the Icelanders just because Tavares screwed them. In 2 months the Devils sign Jack Hughes and it's back on.
Guess who FINALLY has a POSITIVE outlook. MEEEEEEEEE.
Marino retired in 2000. We had 2 average QBs in Feidler and Tanny that cost us rebuilding and no other teams coveted or respected. Griese did not get a fair chance even though he beat out Feidler in camp. We had a brief flirt with Henne and I got the stupid Jersey to prove it. AND the biggest blunder in Dolphin's history Crapepper over Brees. Rosen is finally a real effort at bringing in a QB.

You're right JEG - and Rosen is the most talented QB we've had since Marino. Hopefully these new coaches can make the most of that talent. Best QB room we've had in ages.

I saw Rosen's video on NFLN...awesome. He posted a video thanking the Cards and their fans, welcoming Kyler Murray to Arizona, and letting the Phins know he's ready to work. Class act all around. Love to see stuff like that. Showing his leadership skills already. Here's an article about it:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001028761/article/josh-rosen-congratulates-kyler-murray-on-no-1-pick

That's all good news.

I love the deal. I nothing against Rosen but my skepticism of him last year was him seeming to be injury prone. How much pro potential he has I don't know but a lot of people thought he had a lot of potential last year and still do. He was horrible for the Cardinals last year but there are other factors that go into that. The way I see it, this team went out and got a young QB with a lot of talent and now it is up to the team and Rosen to develop. I am glad we didn't wait until next year. Maybe we got our guy now and if so we can use picks for other areas that this team as needs in. If the coaches aren't sure about him, they can always go after another QB.

Killah Sith wrote:The way I see it, this team went out and got a young QB with a lot of talent and now it is up to the team and Rosen to develop. I am glad we didn't wait until next year. Maybe we got our guy now and if so we can use picks for other areas that this team as needs in. If the coaches aren't sure about him, they can always go after another QB.

Well said, and that's the bottom line. We've been screaming for years for the Phins to invest in the QB position, and that's exactly what they did. From a pure talent standpoint, Rosen is close to elite. And we got him for, essentially, a 4th this year and a 5th next year, with a salary of about $2 million a year. That's an absolute steal, and if the new coaching staff can help him hit his potential, we're sitting pretty for the future.

Imagine if Rosen has a big season and we don't need to draft a QB in round one next year! That would be HUGE and would give us a chance to really beef up the roster. Fingers crossed...

I said I was gonna trust Grier. So, I am. As I look at it, he used a 2nd rounder (he traded down and picked up some picks, then traded the lower 2nd!!! ) Good move, not like the Phins usual strategy of being the easiest mark in the NFL and getting suckered on every deal!!!

I do not know if Rosen is the answer at QB for the Phins, but...
One - the Cards had a lot of injuries last year
Two - The Cards fired the new HC after ONE YEAR...Phins Phans see Cam Cameron for example of what this means!!! YIKES!!!
THREE - He was a 1st rounder rookie
FOUR - Would the Cards have dumped Rosen if Kylar Murray had gone to Baseball instead of opting for football. What I mean is... How many teams would take a chance at a possible Russell Wilson and jettison their present QB? About 20 or so teams I'ma thinking?

SO, I do not know if this move will work out, but I do know one thing.... I APPLAUD Grier for having the stones and the recognition to go after a QB instead of playing it safe and drafting an Olineman or a DE Pass rusher.

Do the Phins finally have a GM that recognizes the importance of the QB position? And has the knowledge and ability to not go out and get shafted by the other teams when acquiring a QB?

The move to sign Fitz is looking better and better IMO. With Fitz onboard, the Cards KNEW they couldn't chisel too much out of Grier. They had to take what he was offering BEFORE the Phins used the 2nd round pick. It is about time the Phins are the ones putting the boots to another team!

So, maybe Rosen will work out, maybe not. The more important question, and the one that is weighing more heavily upon my mind is this: Let's say Rosen has a so-so year; sort of Tannehill-ish, where you see a flash now and then, but generally, he is inconsistent. But Rosen has done ENOUGH to make some think he COULD BE the QB of the Future for the Phins. And in the 2020 draft, when the Phins have a chance at a possible franchise QB, is Grier gonna wimp out and trade down, go for another position, or generally "Pull another Miami Dolphins Dumbarsed Draft Special" like most of the GMs for the past 20 years or so???

I think next year will tell the tale on Grier. And let us Phins Phans know if we finally have a real GM IMO.

Great post, FF. It is refreshing to see that we finally have people in charge that value the QB position.

And yes, next year will tell us everything we need to know about Grier and his staff. Not just how they handle the QB situation (which of course is key), but also what they do with the dozen or so other picks they have.

My guess: if Rosen struggles, we go for a QB in round one. With the other picks, I expect a lot of wheeling and dealing and more picks added for 2021. I think we can expect the Dolphins to have 10+ picks every single year with this staff - which gives us the ability to move up and down the draft as needed. This is what I've always wanted...so sick of seeing other teams work the draft and we get left behind. The times they are a changin!

Amen Brother!!! Let it be so.

Yes, this was a very low risk deal. As I mentioned in the other thread, by either draft value chart it is the equivalent of getting a 22 year old Rosen with a full season under his belt for the 57th pick in the draft.

That's essentially what we spent on Chad Henne, and Rosen has a better chance to succeed.

It is less than we spent on John Beck, or on Pat White, or on Duante Culpepper, and a hell of a lot less draft capital than we spent on Ryan Tannehill.

And cost to the Fins is $6.3 million for 3 years. We spent $10 million on one year of Jay Cutler!

I could go on, but I'm optimistic that the front office has improved, I'll put it that way.

In retrospect, I can't believe I was DREADING this trade on Friday. Looking back, that was a foolish stance.

There is no way you can go into the season with Fitzpatrick, and a giant cloud of vapor-nothingness behind him on the depth chart. How can you convince any of your players on offense that you are a threat to score and win the game?

Rosen is a legitimate franchise-caliber talent. Will he pan out? Who knows. But this is the most talented QB we've had on our roster in a very long time. The equation for him his simple, and he said it yesterday at his press conference. If he wants to start, he's got to beat out Ryan Fitzpatrick. Pure and simple. This should not be too tall a task for him, not at all. If he fails, that's a huge disappointment and the first sign he may not work out.

If he succeeds in earning the starting job (I think he will), then we've got a legitimate starting QB with real upside, and both a solid veteran backup and valued mentor behind him. Rudock/Falk/Whoever will battle it out for third string, in the hopes of developing into a quality QB over time.

It has been a very long time since we've had a QB depth chart that resembled an actual NFL caliber franchise.

The beat writers are split on this, with Mando and Kelly not really liking the move. Hyde/Jackson are in support and I think they are looking at it wisely.

Distilling it down to the larger team interest, this is a full, one-year audition for Rosen. Our staff and front office will know at the end of the season if Rosen is worth further investment. Entering year 3 of his rookie deal, it would not be a terrible idea to STILL draft a top rated QB in round 1 of the 2020 draft.

Look at it this way: Rosen may be good, he may eventually be great. But I don't think he will be good enough THIS YEAR to take the squad we've assembled to a winning record. Not close. We have way too many holes on the roster, especially on defense where our pass rush looks laughable right now. I expect us to lose a lot of games, even if Rosen wins the starting job like I expect.

If Tua/Fromm/Herbert grade out as superior prospects to Murray (that seems to be the consensus) then you absolutely draft one of them even if you have to trade up to do so. Start Rosen again in 2020, or let them compete and see who wins the job in camp. With two years separation, you're kind of in the Rivers/Brees scenario - and that's not a bad thing.

white1 wrote:In retrospect, I can't believe I was DREADING this trade on Friday.  Looking back, that was a foolish stance.  

Same here. I didn't want it to happen (not for a 2nd, anyway), but when it did I was very cautiously optimistic because I do have faith in this coaching staff.

But it wasn't until I watched footage of Rosen at UCLA that I finally "got it". This a supremely talented QB...I'd even say the most technically sound QB in each of the past 2 drafts, when you consider his stellar footwork and overall mechanics. He's very intelligent, and he's overcome tons of adversity at UCLA and in Arizona (including a new OC just about every season, and poor talent around him).

Adding Rosen to a QB room that features Ryan Fitzpatrick - the undeniable MVP of the league after the first month of the 2018 season, by the way - gives us the most talent at the QB position that we've had since Dan Marino and Scott Mitchell.

I don't know who wins the QB competition this spring, but I do know this: IF (huge IF) the OL is even somewhat decent and the backs/receivers/TEs stay healthy and learn the offensive system well enough, we could have an offense that scores a lot of points. Yes, I may be dreaming...but seriously, Fitz and Rosen are good enough that with a decent supporting cast they'll find the endzone a lot. I really believe that. This may not be the shitshow most people are expecting.

Regardless, this was a gamble worth taking. The salary we are taking on is equivalent to a low-end veteran back-up, and taking the trades into consideration it cost us a 4th this year and a 5th next year. There's almost zero risk, with a potentially massive upside.

White1 wrote:With two years separation, you're kind of in the Rivers/Brees scenario - and that's not a bad thing.

Dang straight. That is a VERY GOOD Situation to be in. And one all teams should endeavor to get themselves into IMHO.

QB is the most important player position. Teams SHOULD be looking to improve the position EVERY YEAR. They don't do it. Or most of them don't do it. Most of them are run by nincompoops who do not want to deal with a QB controversy so they ensure THEIR QB doesn't have any real competition. We have seen it from the Phins for decades.

Yep, when you REALLY look at this deal, it was a VERY SMART move by the Phins. The only downside is the PERCEPTION/RUMOR that Rosen does not inspire his teammates. I am inclined to think this is sheer horse hockey, but as others have said, if the Phins have to trade Rosen or cut him, they can and not take a hit.

Not much downside, and the possible upside is enormous. And Grier managed the draft and still got the player he wanted.

Impressive IMO.

If Rosen works out, so much the better.

Like many others, I was hesitant at first to get beind the thought of this move, but I have changed my thinking.

Simply put, if he balls out and shows great promise and all the traits of a bona fide NFL caliber starting QB, then we have our QB of the future. No need to use the top pick on a QB to come in and start.

If he looks OK, meaning up and down, inconsistent, but does show ability, then, he can be your cheap backup. Then you draft your QB in 2020.

To me, this is a win-win situation. We got a top rated QB for basically a 5th round pick (the 2nd rounder we gave and the 2nd rounder in 20 are a wash). Plus, he is dirt cheap.

I say, open the QB competition up from day 1. If Rosen can't beat out Fitz, then, that tells you a lot. Either way, I still want to see Rosen at some point this year. Let's say, we start Fitz and we go 0-4 to begin the season. Guess who comes in and starts? Rosen.

I, for one am really looking forward to an exciting preseason (as much as possible). You know both QB's are going to want to show out and make plays. Should be fun to watch it unfold.

Nice write up from a Cards fan:

https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2019/5/2/18526437/breaking-down-arizona-cardinals-quarterback-for-miami-dolphins-fans-about-josh-rosen

The worst possible thing he can do is show potential. He's either got to show he has what it takes or not. This should be an on/off situation. We don't have time to fuck around here, some of us just turned 60 and don't want to die without seeing the Dolphins win a Super Bowl in our adult lifetimes.

Degarmo wrote:The worst possible thing he can do is show potential.  He's either got to show he has what it takes or not.  This should be an on/off situation.  

So true. One way or another, a decision has to be made on Rosen THIS SEASON. He's either our franchise QB, or he becomes a backup in 2020 and beyond. If that puts pressure on Rosen, good - pressure is when you see what a QB is truly made of.

Degarmo wrote:We don't have time to fuck around here, some of us just turned 60 and don't want to die without seeing the Dolphins win a Super Bowl in our adult lifetimes.

I think next year is going to tell us if Grier is the real deal or not.

More of the Wannstedt-ish "Anti-QB" thinking that made Dave's tenure with the Phins the horrendous era of vast suckitude it was, or more of the mealy-mouthed "We have Rosen and want to see how he develops before we spend a high draft pick on another QB" we have seen from some of the chicken-hearted GMs and HCs the Phins have employed... and we will know.

Grier has got to remain aggressive on the QB position.

Everything else is relative IMO.

if Miami goes 8 wins or lower, Miami will have to go QB and find players to build around him. Miami goes 9-7 or anything higher they will build around Rosen

I somewhat disagree. With this roster, if Rosen wins more that 5 games, it will be a tremendous feet. Everyone is expecting 3-4 wines and now if they win les that 8, we need a new QB?

scotgif wrote:I somewhat disagree. With this roster, if Rosen wins more that 5 games, it will be a tremendous feet. Everyone is expecting 3-4 wines and now if they win les that 8, we need a new QB?

Rosen should be evaluated on how he grasps the offense and how he plays within the scheme. Wins would be great - but this season is really about setting the foundation. The final W-L record is secondary in 2019.

Based on what New England does, I'm expecting an offense with quick passes, mostly short with the occasional downfield strike when it is available. So, with Rosen we need to see an ability to read the defense pre-snap and make lightning-fast decisions as soon as he has the ball in hand. His release, accuracy and ball placement need to be on point. I'm also expecting a strong focus on the run, which means Rosen needs to sell the play action as well. If he can do all of this at a high level, getting better throughout the season, then we have our QB. If he struggles and doesn't get any better as the season goes on, we go all in for a QB in the 2020 draft.

One important point: a lot of us are pounding the table for adding studs to the offensive line. BUT...if the offense works as it should, our OL will only need to pass protect for about 2.5-3 seconds max per play...this is going to be a quick passing offense, so pass protection is not as important as it is in other offenses. The ball should come out in a hurry, so the OL won't be asked to sustain blocks for long periods of time. I think that's why we're seeing a focus on maulers added to the OL this offseason...run blocking is going to be key, with pass pro really being "don't get beat off the snap".

Unless Rosen absolutely blows up this season (in a positive way), I'd still draft a QB next season.

I'd be very surprised if the Dolphins finish with more than 5 or 6 wins in the best of circumstances this year. It's all about evaluating Rosen. Even if he looks like the answer, the horses aren't around him yet.