From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

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From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by Degarmo on Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:00 am

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

As much as the Patriots tried to keep the circle of those who knew about the taping small, sometimes the team would add recently cut players from upcoming opponents and pay them only to help decipher signals, former Patriots staffers say. In 2005, for instance, they signed a defensive player from a team they were going to play in the upcoming season. Before that game, the player was led to a room where Adams was waiting. They closed the door, and Adams played a compilation tape that matched the signals to the plays from the player's former team, and asked how many were accurate. "He had about 50 percent of them right," the player says now.

It's a decent-sized read, but it's great.
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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by mercury22nathan on Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:47 am

In fact, many former New England coaches and employees insist that the taping of signals wasn't even the most effective cheating method the Patriots deployed in that era. Several of them acknowledge that during pregame warm-ups, a low-level Patriots employee would sneak into the visiting locker room and steal the play sheet, listing the first 20 or so scripted calls for the opposing team's offense. (The practice became so notorious that some coaches put out fake play sheets for the Patriots to swipe.) Numerous former employees say the Patriots would have someone rummage through the visiting team hotel for playbooks or scouting reports. Walsh later told investigators that he was once instructed to remove the labels and erase tapes of a Patriots practice because the team had illegally used a player on injured reserve. At Gillette Stadium, the scrambling and jamming of the opponents' coach-to-quarterback radio line -- "small s---" that many teams do, according to a former Pats assistant coach -- occurred so often that one team asked a league official to sit in the coaches' box during the game and wait for it to happen. Sure enough, on a key third down, the headset went out.

and that is why the Patriots were so good for so long.

Looking back on it, several former Patriots coaches insist that spying helped them most against less sophisticated teams -- the Dolphins and Bills chief among them -- whose coaches didn't bother changing their signals.

and the Phins were particularly vulnerable (and stupid).

and if you don't think the Patriots still are working to slant things in their favor...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/alleged-locker-room-break-ins--secret-tapes-and-hamptons-parties--the-patriots-way-191617766.html

Turns out, Patriots owner Robert Kraft and U.S. District Judge Richard M. Berman, who vacated Brady's suspension and might wind up with a bridge or something named after him in Boston, happened to be at the same party in the Hamptons over the weekend.

Of course they were. The two reportedly "mingled," but the Patriots say it was only for a few minutes.

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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by JMP on Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:53 am

Here's what I find most interesting in this story: other teams knew (or at least had strong suspicions) that the Pats were cheating...so what did they do about it? Did they inform the league (it sounds like some did)? If not, why not? If they did inform the league, why didn't the league do anything? And - were other teams cheating in these ways too (I would guess yes)?

As FYI, my brother-in-law is a Long Island police officer and does security as a sidejob. He does security for a couple of the biggest names in the country. Anyway, he worked security at the David Zaslav Labor Day party where Kraft talked with Berman!

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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by DolFan 316 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:24 pm

JMP wrote:Here's what I find most interesting in this story: other teams knew (or at least had strong suspicions) that the Pats were cheating...so what did they do about it?  Did they inform the league (it sounds like some did)?  If not, why not?

It's that outdated, antiquated macho "code of silence" thing. As ludicrous as it is to believe, some teams genuinely thought they'd be "pussies" if they "snitched" on the Pats. I will be SO glad when this society finally moves past that absurd way of thinking, you have no idea.

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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by JMP on Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:30 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:It's that outdated, antiquated macho "code of silence" thing. As ludicrous as it is to believe, some teams genuinely thought they'd be "pussies" if they "snitched" on the Pats. I will be SO glad when this society finally moves past that absurd way of thinking, you have no idea.

Yeah, and the 'old boy network' is still alive and well in the NFL too.

I don't mean to blame the victim here, because clearly the Pats cheated. But, all the teams that let it happpen - and the NFL itself - are part of the process...clearly, these other teams were at least enablers.

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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by Degarmo on Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:28 am

Let's be honest too, other teams have tried to cheat, some have succeeded, some have failed. That said, the Patriots have been paramount in this capacity. These are just the times that they have been caught. There is a 0% chance that these are the only times they tried. They are still cheating in any way they can. They have never stopped.

Never in NFL history has a team been caught cheating so egregiously and had literally nothing of merit done to them. Draft picks are bullshit, so is a couple million dollars to a multi-billionaire.

I firmly believe the only reason the Pats won the last Super Bowl is because the football gods looked away from two of it's most infamous sinners and let evil take its course. (Of course I'm referring to Bellichick and Carroll).
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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by Degarmo on Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:34 am

And even then, I still feel like it was a stolen play, OR a payback to Bill.  I mean, who runs a pass play into an obvious passing D on the goal line? The Patriots coaching staff has even said they never had to use that formation . . . but they did a nice job pretending it was installed in preseason, which is shit, because if that were the case NO ONE would have remembered where to line up on defense.  Is Russell Wilson all of the sudden a moron?  Did he receive instructions to run the play as called, period?  Who calls that play?  It was viewed instantly by most who watched the game as the most-stupid call in history in a game of that consequence.  Then after the game, the apologists came out of the woodwork, just like any good spin campaign.

Bleh, I'm waiting to find out all of this shit is fixed and I can move on.

You see, the biggest deal in all of this is the cover-up factor.  The NFL has tried implicitly on several occasions to cover up this cheating bullshit because there is something innately true about its fan base, and it was mentioned in the article.  Sure people may only want to watch the games and not deal with this bullshit, but they want to know for sure the games are on the level.  The money implications if they are not are quite impressive.
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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by DolFan 316 on Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:24 am

What makes it even more absurd is that the Pats actually had the worst short yardage D in the league last season. I cannot make this up. No wonder I keep hearing about how unhappy Lynch has been all offseason.

Oh well. The damage has been done, and it's no longer going to be my concern now. I have other things to worry about.

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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by mercury22nathan on Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:14 am

and they just keep on doing it...


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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by JMP on Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:51 am

So crazy how this stuff keeps happening over and over. Once or twice could be coincidental, but it seems like it's just always something with this team. The Pats certainly subscribe to the old saying: 'Win if you can, lose if you must - but always cheat.' And they'll continue to do it and get away with it, because the rest of the league lets it happen.

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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by mercury22nathan on Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:33 am

as the Rooney family were part of the group that pushed Goodell (along with Jim Irsay, Steve Bisciotti and Jerry Richardson) to go after Brady, i saw this as a big "FUCK YOU" on national TV from Kraft to the Rooneys.

unless the really super wealthy owners (Paul Allen, Stanley Kroenke, Malcolm Glazer and yes, our Steven Ross) start to care, nothing will be done. but they are too busy with their "real" business ventures to give a damn about their football "hobby"...as long their teams continue to turn a profit, they are not going to do anything to upset the apple cart.

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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by Degarmo on Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:17 pm

Steve Ross should offer $10 million for hard PROVABLE and incriminating evidence from anyone, per piece of evidence.

Then, sue the league for damages.
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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by DolFan 316 on Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:37 pm

The Pats are going 19-0 this season. It's inevitable. That's what all of this has been building up to.

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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by JMP on Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:57 am

DolFan 316 wrote:The Pats are going 19-0 this season. It's inevitable. That's what all of this has been building up to.

It would make me vomit repeatedly, but I can't say it would surprise me.

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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by DolFan 316 on Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:06 pm

Remember the Snow Plow game? Proof the Pats have actually been cheating like hell for over 30 years!!! The Raiders have NOTHING on this team.

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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by mercury22nathan on Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:14 am

because i certain you guys just haven't had enough of this story yet...

When Deflategate broke wide open, Indianapolis-based former NFL head linesman Mark Baltz wasn’t particularly surprised. More specifically, he wasn’t surprised that lockerroom attendant Jim McNally, who this week got his job back with the Patriots along with equipment assistant John Jastremski, was in the middle of the months-long investigation.

“He always asked for the footballs way, way before he was supposed to get them,’’ said Baltz, who was an NFL official from 1989-2013. Baltz spoke to WTHR.com last week, before the pair was reinstated. “If he could get them 10 or 15 minutes before he was supposed to get them, instead of the usual two minutes before the game – and there were some crews that let him do that – he would do it. I wouldn’t let him take them early, and I think he eventually figured that out because he stopped asking after a while. I probably did 10 to 15 games up there (in Foxboro, Mass.) and those first few times, he’d always ask. I always thought it was very suspicious. He certainly acted in a suspicious manner.’’

“For an officials’ locker room attendant, I always thought he was an unusual dude,’’ Baltz said. “Most locker room guys, they sit there and if you need something, they got it for you. When you left the locker room, you’d lock the door and they’d stay right there. The other 31 teams, that’s what they would do. That was his job.

“But McNally, he was running all around like a chicken with his head cut off. Asking for the balls early. What I specifically reported him for several years ago, and I thought this was really unusual, he’d run out on the field with the footballs before the game and the next thing you know, he’s playing pitch-and-catch with (Tom) Brady. Then, next thing, he’s on the sidelines right next to (Bill) Belichick, like he’s a (bleeping) assistant coach or something."

“He (McNally) was always worried about the footalls,’’ Baltz said. “Always. It was very odd. I reported him to the league, but never got any reaction from them. I don’t think they thought it was a big deal at the time. But (McNally) did things that 31 other locker room attendants don’t do.

“I think McNally did his homework and knew which crews he was dealing with and which crews he could get over on. `Are the footballs ready yet? Are the footballs ready.’ I’d tell him, `Yeah, they’re ready, but when we got out on the field, you can have them.’ Obviously, there were a lot of times when he’s gotten them early and had the time to let some air out of the ball, or whatever he was doing with them.

“All I know is, when he got them (the footballs), he would run. He would take off. Whether he was going somewhere and letting air out, I’m definitely suspicious, but I don’t know for sure.’’

http://www.wthr.com/story/30056286/kravitz-blogindy-based-nfl-official-baltz-was-suspicious-of-mcnally-years-ago

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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by JMP on Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:26 am

Obviously, there were a lot of times when he’s gotten them early and had the time to let some air out of the ball, or whatever he was doing with them.

I still think letting air out of the balls is a non-factor, but regardless, if this dude was indeed letting air out of the balls on a regular basis, why didn't any official notice it? The ball is spotted by an official on every single play, and if it's deflated a bit I find it impossible that not one ref noticed it and reported it. Unless some sort of payola was involved, I just find it very hard to believe that ball deflation was a common occurrence and no one knew about it.

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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

Post by DolFan 316 on Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:07 pm

Spygate is actually a perfect reflection of modern society. It's not that people are too "dumb" to know there was cheating going on. They know. Just like everybody knows at this point that the government is tracking everyone's every move. They simply don't care. Because caring would get in the way of their mindless entertainment, you see. Caring would force them to look at everything a completely different way. Caring would force them to swallow the blue pill and disconnect from the matrix, and most people aren't ready to do that. And they're rapidly running out of time to be ready.

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Re: From Spygate to Deflategate - Good article

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