Rookie playing time

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Rookie playing time

Post by mercury22nathan on Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:44 pm

interesting read from Armando.

The point is the Dolphins have put a not-ready rookie at right guard and they're sticking with him as he struggles. But they wouldn't do that to a lesser degree with a rookie defensive tackle?

And they wouldn't let a high-ceiling playmaker get out there more and develop faster because they're sticking with a veteran who isn't really producing?

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2015/09/douglas-struggles-and-plays-phillips-plays-better-and-is-inactive-parker-is-the-best-and-needs-his-c.html

makes some good points.

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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by JMP on Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:29 pm

Very odd how they handle rookies. No rhyme or reason.




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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by DolFan 316 on Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:16 pm

How many times have I said it? Philbin CLEARLY plays favorites and puts players in the doghouse for no reason, and hates playing rookies unless he literally has no other option. Which means Billy turner *has* to be a serious candidate for worst guard in NFL history.

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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by JMP on Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:20 am

The Jordan Phillips benching makes zero sense, unless of course there is some off-field issue we don't know about. He seemed to be progressing nicely, and is the only Dolphin with a sack this season. Veterans Earl Mitchell and CJ Mosely look terrible, so I'm not sure why they get a pass while a rookie that's playing better doesn't.

Turner can't be worse than Thomas/Douglas...he just can't be. I bet he dared to speak his mind and now Philbin is holding a grudge.

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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by mercury22nathan on Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:24 am

DolFan 316 wrote:Which means Billy turner *has* to be a serious candidate for worst guard in NFL history.

actually, to the contrary...

Joe Philbin says he will stick with struggling Jamil Douglas at right guard. So why can’t Billy Turner get on the field? Offensive line coach John Benton wants his linemen to block with the technique he teaches, and Turner hasn’t done it to Benton’s liking.

“[The issue] wasn’t my production,” Turner said. “Every coach wants things done with their technique. It’s much different than what I did in college, which was straight up power.”

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-buzz/2015/09/from-wade-contract-to-dragic-pregnancy-to-bosh-illness-heat-reaffirms-family-commitment-dolphins-can-1.html

so performance isn't the issue. Turner indeed may be better than Douglas (and probably Dallas Thomas), but he doesn't do it the way they want it done, so he doesn't see the field. so much for putting the best 5 players on the field. Turner played with power in college and now they want him to do something else - ah, its the old Miami Dolphins square peg in a round hole approach again.

so i guess this means that Douglas and Thomas are doing it the way they want...you know, because that is working so well. Rolling Eyes

JMP wrote:The Jordan Phillips benching makes zero sense...

unless your Philbin, then it makes perfect sense.

Why was Jordan Phillips, who has Miami’s only sack this season, inactive against Buffalo? He said coaches told him it was performance-based, that “I’ve got to be better” and “I didn’t do what I needed to do in practice.” He said being inactive was somewhat shocking because “I’m supposed to have a big role on this team.”

again, its not about production on the field - its about looking right in practice regardless of whether you can perform or not.

these guys have got to learn the right technique and attitude...umm, like players like Brice McCain...

McCain has allowed 63.6 percent of the passes thrown in his coverage area this season to be completed, and through three games is surrendering nearly 17 yards per completion.

On Sunday, Sammy Watkins got behind McCain for a 39-yard catch.

“I gave up one deep ball,” McCain said. “Everybody’s making dramatic stuff about one deep ball. He didn’t score. I tackled him. Everybody in the league gives up deep balls. I don’t understand what the big deal is. I gave up one deep ball, back to back weeks. One, and the rest were like 5 yards and under.”

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article37119684.html

he's supposed to give up deep balls, right? isn't that a CBs job? no big deal - because he sure had real pretty technique while watching Watkins blow right past him. cheers

and look at this Vernon guy. he had the audacity to start going after the QB...

Perhaps the most puzzling part of the Dolphins’ defensive struggles has been the team’s use of defensive end Olivier Vernon — or, more accurately, lack thereof.

Vernon, who had 18 sacks in the previous two seasons, was on the field for 79.4 percent of the Dolphins’ defensive snaps last season.

In 2015, his usage rate has dropped to 53.9 percent.

so the Phins fixed him - just try and get those sack numbers with a third less playing time. oh, and because those guys getting his snaps have been playing so much better, right? right?

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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by JMP on Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:41 am

Damn, that is mind-boggling stuff, merc.

I'd like to think that Stephen Ross is aware of all these asinine statements, but I guess he just doesn't get it. How he can continue to let these guys destroy your team is beyond me.

The McCain quote is shocking. I've talked about a lack of accountability with this team, but that takes the cake. You think you did a good job because the receiver didn't score??? Really??? Shocked

And the quotes about Turner are really scary. Is this really how the coaches run this team? You draft a guy because you like the way he plays, and then not only do you put him at a position that he's not suited for, you want him to completely change the way he plays??? WTF??? But it's all good - we'll continue to start linemen that are ranked below every other starter in the league - fantastic.

As for Phillips, you draft the guy in round 2, and even though he performs well in games, you bench him in favor of a scrub that barely made the roster, all because Phillips didn't practice the way you wanted??? Again, WTF???

Everytime I think I've seen the worst from this team, it just gets even worse. And the scary part is, we haven't even approached rockbottom yet.

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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by scotgif on Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:16 am

And just think, this is the "easy" part of the schedule. I see bad things coming, very bad things.
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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by Degarmo on Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:54 pm

Okay, that's enough.  It's time for Tannenbaum to pull the plug.  When coaches start with their "system" and their special super amazing "technique" it's clear that they're terrible coaches.  Good coaches, great coaches take what they're given and work around that, not try to hammer in the old round/square philosophy.  They're terrible.  They're egotistical and think their system is so fucking effective, but meanwhile they've never done anything to show that their system is anything better than average, AT BEST.

We need a guy who comes in here and plays the guys that are good enough to play.  We all know, everyone knows, that Thomas has no place on an NFL football field, and I firmly believe there are only a few teams that would even try to put him out there.  This is a clear, and fatal indication for this coaching squad.  Now, my concern lies with Tannenbaum.  Did he learn anything?  Will he be a cutthroat killer now, when it's important for it to happen immediately?  

I understand that broad, sweeping change in the middle of an NFL season is not the norm, but this is a special situation.  It needs to happen here, because Ross' monetary losses are going to reach a very significant level here soon, and regardless of all the money he's putting into his Goodell Fluffer Fund to improve the stadium, his fan base is extremely close to saying, "Fuck it, move the team to LA and we'll take our chances with another team moving here.  We're not coming back."  

So, what do we have then?  We have a rare opportunity for Tannenbaum to come out and become a strong leader around these parts and actually formulate a team around a football philosophy.  We have a chance for him to stand up to Ross and tell him that it's time to get his head out of his ass, and the clouds, and start seeing that he needs to trust football people to bring in football coaches and front office personnel to get the job done.  

Ross needs to step away and let the football folks bring in the right people.  It doesn't matter if he thinks Philbin is "like a son" to him.  It is readily apparent that this coaching staff has no idea how to use the tools they're given, and it's readily apparent that they also have no clue as how to use any talent that doesn't match up to their "system".  

That, my friends, is what terrible coaching really looks like.  A system is not as important as the players in the system.  You don't try to change a player to do something he's not good at.  You drafted someone because they were good at what they do, not might be good if we can change him to maybe be able to do what we want.  

This shows a serious disconnect, STILL, between the front office guys who are getting the players and what the coaches want.  They are dropping Vernon's snaps?  Suh is freelancing because he doesn't agree with the plays?  We have linemen that are performing really well but since the super special "technique" isn't good enough in practice they don't see the field on game day?  We have guys like McCain who actually is pissy about performing badly, but thinks it's all fine because he didn't allow a TD?  This is a clear indication that Brice McCain isn't being held to even a decent standard, let alone a high one.  That's on the coaches.

All of this is on the coaches.  

They must make a change now, which translates to after the Jets game.  My fear is, they'll win, and that's sad to admit, because then it's more of the same for the next six weeks until the late-season firing happens.  Part of being a good businessman is being able to spot trends before they're apparent to everyone else.  Well, Ross missed that boat, but he still has a chance to fix this if he allows his people to get it fixed.  Ross has no idea how to run a football team.  His job is to get the right people at the top and get the hell out of the way.

It's time.
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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by HalCHorn on Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:04 pm

Mind boggling to say the least.

You know, if it weren't for all the money being sunk into stadium improvements, the fact that these statements are being made by coaches combined with the owner's lack of action in response would lead me to believe that Ross is pulling a "Major League" and planning to relocate. Intentional sabotage is seriously the only thing that would make any sense.

If Philbin is truly "like a son" to you, Mr. Ross, I'd say it's time to put him up for adoption. Smile

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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by HalCHorn on Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:10 pm

Degarmo wrote:Okay, that's enough.  It's time for Tannenbaum to pull the plug.  When coaches start with their "system" and their special super amazing "technique" it's clear that they're terrible coaches.  Good coaches, great coaches take what they're given and work around that, not try to hammer in the old round/square philosophy.  They're terrible.  They're egotistical and think their system is so fucking effective, but meanwhile they've never done anything to show that their system is anything better than average, AT BEST.

We need a guy who comes in here and plays the guys that are good enough to play.  

All of this is on the coaches.  

It's time.

Remember when we had arguably the greatest NFL coach ever, Don Shula? What was it that made him such a great coach? Oh, yeah! He actually adapted his philosophy to suit the personnel available to him!

Sure would be nice to find a coach who would at least TRY to do that.


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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by Degarmo on Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:10 pm

HalCHorn wrote:Mind boggling to say the least.

You know, if it weren't for all the money being sunk into stadium improvements, the fact that these statements are being made by coaches combined with the owner's lack of action in response would lead me to believe that Ross is pulling a "Major League" and planning to relocate.  Intentional sabotage is seriously the only thing that would make any sense.

If Philbin is truly "like a son" to you, Mr. Ross, I'd say it's time to put him up for adoption. Smile

You can ask 316 about my Miami-to-LA theory I've had for three years now Wink
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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by HalCHorn on Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:16 pm

Degarmo wrote:
HalCHorn wrote:Mind boggling to say the least.

You know, if it weren't for all the money being sunk into stadium improvements, the fact that these statements are being made by coaches combined with the owner's lack of action in response would lead me to believe that Ross is pulling a "Major League" and planning to relocate.  Intentional sabotage is seriously the only thing that would make any sense.

If Philbin is truly "like a son" to you, Mr. Ross, I'd say it's time to put him up for adoption. Smile

You can ask 316 about my Miami-to-LA theory I've had for three years now Wink

That theory is going to look more valid than ever if Philbin is still coaching this team two weeks from now.

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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by JMP on Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:48 pm

Degarmo, this whole dumpster fire of a season has brought the best out in you. Outstanding post.

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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by Degarmo on Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:48 pm

HalCHorn wrote:
Degarmo wrote:Okay, that's enough.  It's time for Tannenbaum to pull the plug.  When coaches start with their "system" and their special super amazing "technique" it's clear that they're terrible coaches.  Good coaches, great coaches take what they're given and work around that, not try to hammer in the old round/square philosophy.  They're terrible.  They're egotistical and think their system is so fucking effective, but meanwhile they've never done anything to show that their system is anything better than average, AT BEST.

We need a guy who comes in here and plays the guys that are good enough to play.  

All of this is on the coaches.  

It's time.

Remember when we had arguably the greatest NFL coach ever, Don Shula?  What was it that made him such a great coach?  Oh, yeah!  He actually adapted his philosophy to suit the personnel available to him!

Sure would be nice to find a coach who would at least TRY to do that.


That's an epidemic problem with coaching nowadays. Mike Martz was one of the pioneering guys who put system over players, because he thought that is what made Bill Walsh great. Turns out having Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Roger Craig, and a bunch of other great players didn't hurt either. Remember when people though Billick was a great offensive genius because he had an uninjured and very good Daunte Culpepper with Randy Moss? How did that translate when he was coaching guys like Kyle Boller?
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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by Degarmo on Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:51 pm

JMP wrote:Degarmo, this whole dumpster fire of a season has brought the best out in you.  Outstanding post.

Thanks Very Happy

It's been so long, and we have to endure this BS every year from this team, and it's completely unnecessary.  We're all just sick to death of it, and those of us that were branded as "negative" on the Finnation site were all actually correct, and the "positive guys" were all wrong.  We're not negative as a fan base because we're jerks.  We're smart enough to see that right now reality is negative when it comes to this team.

So they can all kiss my entire ass.

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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by JMP on Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:58 pm

LOL Classic scene!


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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by DolFan 316 on Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:32 pm

scotgif wrote:And just think, this is the "easy" part of the schedule. I see bad things coming, very bad things.

HEY!!! I'm on record as having seen them first! Razz

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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by DolFan 316 on Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:47 pm

HalCHorn wrote:Remember when we had arguably the greatest NFL coach ever, Don Shula?  What was it that made him such a great coach?  Oh, yeah!  He actually adapted his philosophy to suit the personnel available to him!

Sure would be nice to find a coach who would at least TRY to do that.

Remember when Ross declared Philbin was his Shula? That's right up there with whoever declared the Titanic was unsinkable.

JMP wrote:Degarmo, this whole dumpster fire of a season has brought the best out in you.  Outstanding post.

I hope nobody ever finds all the dead bodies in his closet, because he's been absolutely KILLING it lately. (Rim shot.)

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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by mercury22nathan on Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:48 am

Degarmo wrote:They are dropping Vernon's snaps?

and its even worse than that.

"Ndamukong 'the beast from the east' Suh, from what I've seen he's still playing very well," Umenyiora said. "Cameron Wake is one of the best pass rushers we have in this league. I am going to put this squarely on the defensive coordinator's shoulders.

"What I've seen is Olivier Vernon dropping into coverage, I've seen Cameron Wake two-gapping, I've seen Ndamukong Suh two-gapping which is what you can't have with these perennial All-Pro pass rushers. You have to let them rush up the field. You have to let these rushers rush and the defensive coordinator hasn't done that.

"That's why they're underperforming. But I think they're going to get back to that this weekend."

The Dolphins run a base 4-3 defense that should typically use one-gap concepts for the four defensive linemen. That means a lineman is responsible for one gap. He must try to stop running plays there. He often rushes the passer from that gap.

The Dolphins do switch things up. And they do run two gap concepts. And in that regard, the defensive lineman is responsible for gaps on either shoulder. That means he must first read the play (pass or run, and to what side it is going if a run) and then react to the play through the appropriate gap.

Two gap defensive linemen typically read and react by definition.

And the problem with that?

The Dolphins are asking aggressive up-field rushers to think first and then react to the play in front of them rather than attack one gap and let everyone else fill the other gaps which are their assignments.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2015/10/osi-umenyiora-dolphins-defense-issue-on-defensive-coordinator.html

complete misuse of the talent on this team.

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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by HalCHorn on Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:02 am

DolFan 316 wrote:
HalCHorn wrote:Remember when we had arguably the greatest NFL coach ever, Don Shula?  What was it that made him such a great coach?  Oh, yeah!  He actually adapted his philosophy to suit the personnel available to him!

Sure would be nice to find a coach who would at least TRY to do that.

Remember when Ross declared Philbin was his Shula? That's right up there with whoever declared the Titanic was unsinkable.


Ross was correct. Philbin is his David Shula. See, we're the ones who misunderstood what he meant. Smile

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Re: Rookie playing time

Post by JMP on Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:07 am

HalCHorn wrote:
DolFan 316 wrote:
HalCHorn wrote:Remember when we had arguably the greatest NFL coach ever, Don Shula?  What was it that made him such a great coach?  Oh, yeah!  He actually adapted his philosophy to suit the personnel available to him!

Sure would be nice to find a coach who would at least TRY to do that.

Remember when Ross declared Philbin was his Shula? That's right up there with whoever declared the Titanic was unsinkable.


Ross was correct.  Philbin is his David Shula.  See, we're the ones who misunderstood what he meant. Smile


lol!

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