Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

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Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by rightchea on Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:40 am

Mike Chiari wrote:Just one year after signing defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh to the richest contract for a defensive player in NFL history, the Miami Dolphins may already be looking to restructure it.

According to ESPN.com's James Walker, Dolphins vice president Mike Tannenbaum admitted it was a possibility Tuesday in an effort to put the organization in a better salary-cap situation: "By the time we get to the first day of the league year, we should have plenty of room to address the needs that we have. Certainly we will be looking at Suh's contract."

Suh is set to count $28.6 million against the cap in 2016.

Per Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald, a potential restructuring could save the Dolphins as much as $18 million against the cap in 2016:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2611460-ndamukong-suh-contract-latest-news-and-rumors-on-negotiations-with-dolphins

how many of y'all saw this coming. They paid the man way too much money and now for them to get some money back they have to restructure his contract. Lets see how Suh takes this and if he will be willing to do for win a playoff game with Miami.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by white1 on Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:12 am

I read some detail on this, there is actually a clause in the contract allowing the team to convert salary to more guaranteed money - I believe his cap hit this year will adjust to about 9.7 million.

The cap is projected to go up by about $10 million each year.

We have problems and holes all over the roster, but we need to draft well.

Stop using free agency for every player we need and we will have no cap problems. We're not all that bad off as it is. We have two very good receivers in Landry and Parker, and both are under rookie deals, that helps a lot.

It's not the worse thing in the world to sink money into the defensive line. It's important against both the run and creating pressure on opposing QBs. In fact, I am an advocate for signing Vernon long term. I think he's underrated as a pass rusher, and he's in his prime age wise.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by JMP on Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:25 am

Drafting well is the key.  We can't keep handing out huge free agent contracts - that's not the way to build long-term success.

As for Vernon, after giving this much consideration I have decided that the Phins should not break the bank to keep him.  If the price gets too high, I let him walk.  He's inconsistent as a pass rusher, he's a liability against the run, and his dirty play kills the team with all the personal fouls he draws.  I like him, but I just don't think it's wise to sink tons of money into a pass rusher that has reached double-digit sacks just one time in his career (and that was three years ago).  He's not an elite pass rusher, and he doesn't force fumbles or make game-changing plays.  I think he's going to get a lot more money than he's worth, and I'd prefer to draft his replacement and let some other team overpay him.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by white1 on Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:55 am

Yeah, interesting points on that JMP.

Price is definitely a factor, I don't think it would be wise to pay him like a premier defensive end (JJ Watt or similar), so I could see this going either way.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by JMP on Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:56 am

white1 wrote:I read some detail on this, there is actually a clause in the contract allowing the team to convert salary to more guaranteed money - I believe his cap hit this year will adjust to about 9.7 million. 

That's great for 2016...but all that does is raise his cap hit in future seasons.  So basically, it's a one-year fix and we have to go through this every single season.  Eventually, that money has to be accounted for.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by white1 on Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:12 am

Oh I'm with you - and I don't have the details we'll have to try and dig it up from somewhere, or maybe there is a resident capologist here we can tap.

My understanding is that THIS was the only year out of control with the current structure, but that in no year does the contract present an insurmountable problem.

I'm under the impression that - for once - we did a contract smart for the team.


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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by rightchea on Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:20 am

I want to see what Miami does. How Tannenbaum and Gase work together to find players that will fix Miami playoff issue.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by JMP on Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:30 am

white1 wrote:Oh I'm with you - and I don't have the details we'll have to try and dig it up from somewhere, or maybe there is a resident capologist here we can tap.

My understanding is that THIS was the only year out of control with the current structure, but that in no year does the contract present an insurmountable problem.

I'm under the impression that - for once - we did a contract smart for the team.


Well, according to Sportrac, 2016 is Suh's biggest cap hit...but it's still huge every season.  And by restructuring 2016, it will increase the cap hit in subsequent seasons.  Personally, I don't think there is a smart way to do a contract when the money is that high...you have to pay the piper at some point, and while restructuring helps short-term, it hurts long-term.

Here's the cap hit each year:


2015    $6,100,000
2016    $28,600,000
2017    $15,100,000
2018    $22,100,000
2019    $24,100,000
2020    $18,375,000

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/ndamukong-suh/

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by JMP on Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:34 am

And keep in mind...Suh is just one player.  By himself, yes, the cap hit is manageable.  The problem comes when you continue to build the team through free agency, and you have several players with huge cap hits every season.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by mercury22nathan on Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:18 pm

JMP wrote:The problem comes when you continue to build the team through free agency, and you have several players with huge cap hits every season.

i know i don't need to tell you this... but welcome to a Tannenbaum-built team.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by JMP on Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:55 pm

mercury22nathan wrote:
JMP wrote:The problem comes when you continue to build the team through free agency, and you have several players with huge cap hits every season.

i know i don't need to tell you this...  but welcome to a Tannenbaum-built team.

No doubt about it - he loves to trade draft picks and spend money...it's who he is.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by finskev on Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:16 am

I would let Wake go and use his Cap-savings on Vernon and this is only because he is Younger than Wake & Healthier.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by Umix10 on Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:54 am

The best situation is to get both Suh and wake to restructure. If cam is the health nut that he is he will back in no time. But in a situational role like Trace back in the day. Suh was never going to see that contract come to fruition, they structured it that way. The 10mil cap increase and a good restructure of many of those contracts will help keep Miller and Vernon. We need to keep playmakers and not give them
Away. Tanneba will send the wrong message by overpaying outside and not paying the guys inside the building

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by mercury22nathan on Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:34 pm

JMP wrote:
mercury22nathan wrote:
JMP wrote:The problem comes when you continue to build the team through free agency, and you have several players with huge cap hits every season.

i know i don't need to tell you this...  but welcome to a Tannenbaum-built team.

No doubt about it - he loves to trade draft picks and spend money...it's who he is.

and they're not even trying to hide it...

And the Dolphins, who need to make some cap room so they can work free agency aggressively (and they will be aggressive, I've been told)...

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2016/01/so-i-spent-some-time-on-profootballtalkcoms-live-radio-show-wednesday-afternoon-because-mike-florio-is-a-friend-and-he-pays.html

so expect more over-paid FA additions. when will the Phins learn that good teams must be built through the draft? that means drafting and developing young talent rather than continuing to create and plug holes by over-paying outside talent that impedes the progress of drafted players. relying on free agency is an endless cycle of mediocrity.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by JMP on Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:11 pm

mercury22nathan wrote:so expect more over-paid FA additions. when will the Phins learn that good teams must be built through the draft? that means drafting and developing young talent rather than continuing to create and plug holes by over-paying outside talent that impedes the progress of drafted players. relying on free agency is an endless cycle of mediocrity.



I have a feeling things are going to get a lot worse for the Dolphins under Tannenbaum's watch.  As bad as the Philbin/Sparano years were, we haven't hit rock bottom by a long shot - but it's coming...and it's going to be ugly.  Tannenbaum is going to mortgage the future and destroy the cap for years by the time he's finished.

But, this is what happens when you let non-football guys run a football team.

This team just never learns...doesn't matter who's running the show, it's always the same story.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by white1 on Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:29 am

I thought this article was a good read relevant to this topic, talks about the contracts and discussions around Wake, Vernon, etc.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-senior-bowl-0129-20160128-story.html


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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by JMP on Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:43 am

Crazy as it sounds, I'd be tempted to ditch both Wake and Vernon and go with cheaper options.  Re-sign Shelby to a cheap deal, and draft a top DE, maybe look to add a cheap vet as well.

I just think it's time to stop dumping huge money into players that are aging and/or inconsistent.  It's a perfect time to do it, because I expect the Phins to be bottom-dwellers in the East again in the coming season.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by Degarmo on Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:52 pm

Having to unload talent because of money issues and going with the unproven. Sounds a lot like the Jets, minus the two AFC Championship games.
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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by JMP on Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:45 pm

Degarmo wrote:Having to unload talent because of money issues and going with the unproven.  Sounds a lot like the Jets, minus the two AFC Championship games.

It's not just because of money.  Wake counts $8.5 million against the cap...he's 34, coming off a torn Achilles and has become awful against the run.  Vernon will get paid like a top pass rusher in free agency...and he absolutely, 100% is nowhere close to being a top pass rusher and is nowhere close to being a game-changer.  For years now the Dolphins have dropped huge $$$ on players that just aren't worth it.  I think Wake and Vernon fit that description. 

Giving Vernon huge money would be a very Tannenbaumesque Jets move...overpay for lesser talent.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by finfanatic on Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:57 pm

Unless the team suddenly turns things around and goes on to win some a SB...yes, even ONE would do...then paying that much money for any player who is not a franchise QB was/is a mistake IMHO.

I would bet any amount of money the team could have missed the playoffs WITHIOUT paying Suh that super buttload of money.

Let us hope the team's "brain trust" has learned their lesson, but I am betting against such.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by mercury22nathan on Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:13 am

JMP wrote:Vernon will get paid like a top pass rusher in free agency...

that's exactly what the boys over at PFF think...

Tagging Vernon might be a stretch, solely due to the Dolphins’ current cap situation, but moves could be made to free up enough space to keep him. From a production standpoint, Vernon was our third-ranked edge defender this season behind the aforementioned Mack and Miller. He ranked in the top five of edge defenders with a 9.2 run-stop percentage, and his 81 total pressures were fifth-most among all defenders. With Cameron Wake celebrating his 34th birthday last weekend (while also still recovering from a torn Achilles), keeping Vernon is shaping up to be the main objective for Miami’s defensive success moving forward.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/02/01/pro-8-players-that-should-be-franchised-tagged/

i think Vernon is a nice complementary DE, but i just haven't seen anything in his play that screams that he's top echelon player.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by rightchea on Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:18 am

He is one of the best young DE in the league right now per PFF and many other sites. He doesn't get a lot of sacks but at the same time he is a monster when it comes to pressure.

Here some interesting information as well:

M. Jussim wrote:The Miami Dolphins may look at restructuring Ndamukong Suh's contract this offseason and that could help the team potentially retain free agents like Lamar Miller, Rishard Matthews and Olivier Vernon.

Suh signed a massive $114 million contract last offseason and heading into 2016, Miami may look at fixing up the deal to save some salary cap space. Dolphins executive vice president of football operations Mike Tannenbaum said to the South Florida Sun-Sentinel last week that the team is going to "look at" the possibility of restructuring Suh's deal, which could help the team get some extra salary cap space to use this offseason.

http://www.sportsworldreport.com/articles/73226/20160201/miami-dolphins-rumors-ndamukong-suh-contract-restructure-helps-lamar-miller-rishard-matthews-olivier-vernon-free-agent-returns.htm

I see this happening for Matthews and Miller but Vernon is going to be too much.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by JMP on Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:48 pm

rightchea wrote:He is one of the best young DE in the league right now per PFF and many other sites. He doesn't get a lot of sacks but at the same time he is a monster when it comes to pressure.

I just don't view Vernon like that.  I view him as a guy that plays great sometimes, and disappears at others - sometimes I don't notice him do anything for games at a time.  And despite what PFF says, I think he sucks against the run.  Overall, I would call him a good, solid player...but he's not a gamechanger and he's not consistent.  I'm not paying top dollar for a guy like that.

Consider this: in three years as a starter, Vernon has forced just 2 fumbles and has only reached double-digit sacks once (back in 2013).  And it's improtant to note that more often that not he's up against a single blocker...Wake commands the double-teams, not Vernon.  In my world, you don't make a guy one of the higher-paid DEs in the league unless he consistently makes impact plays.  And Vernon doesn't.

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Re: Ndamukong Suh Contract: Latest News and Rumors on Negotiations with Dolphins

Post by mercury22nathan on Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:58 am

since this also seems to be a discussion thread on OV as well...

Early word is that the Dolphins view keeping defensive end Olivier Vernon as more important than retaining running back Lamar Miller, but it appears efforts will be made to retain both. They believe they do have another starting-caliber running back on the roster (Jay Ajayi) but not someone who could step in for Vernon. The franchise tag, worth nearly $15 million, remains an option for Vernon.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-buzz/2016/02/with-issues-swirling-whiteside-has-two-months-to-re-shape-his-image-dolphins-canes-marlins-chatter.html

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