Tedd Ginn Jr better than Miami thought

James Walker wrote:Ted Ginn Jr. earned a lot of negative labels in South Florida during his three-year tenure with the Miami Dolphins.

To Dolphins fans, Ginn is one of the biggest draft busts of the past decade. He is mostly remembered as an overhyped college receiver who couldn't catch consistently or make enough plays at the NFL level. In some ways, Ginn is a primary example of Miami's ineptitude on the field and overall poor drafting during its current string of eight consecutive non-winning seasons.

But Ginn, 30, has come a long way since his early days with the Dolphins. He's had a career transformation with the Super Bowl-bound Carolina Panthers this season, which was punctuated with Ginn's important 22-yard touchdown run in Sunday's NFC Championship Game victory over the Arizona Cardinals.

http://scores.espn.go.com/blog/miami-dolphins/post/_/id/19577/super-bowl-bound-ted-ginn-jr-came-a-long-way-from-struggles-in-Miami


Yeah I put that up there.......What you gonna do about it

Just add him to the list. Not as supremely talented as other players we've dumped, but talented still and we had "no use for him".

Ted Ginn is good at two things: running go routes, and returning kicks and punts.  With the Dolphins, he didn't have a QB that could throw deep, so the coaches tried to turn him into an every-down versatile possession receiver...huge mistake, because he's a poor route runner and lacks the toughness of a possession receiver and has poor hands. The Dolphins had such a shitty receiving corps at the time, and they tried to force Ginn to be something he could never be.  He's not a #1, he's not a possession receiver...he's just a deep threat.

Literally, you just tell the guy to go deep a couple of times a game and he'll be open every time.  Give him the ball every now and then on an end-around/reverse, and he'll produce.  Pick your spots with him, and he'll give you a lot of big plays.  As usual, our coaching staff didn't know how to use him, and didn't have a QB that fit with his skillset.  The old adage that "speed kills" still holds true in the NFL, and it should be pretty easy to figure out how to use a guy like Ginn.

I had this conversation with a football fan yesterday. Ginn Jr was a bust in Miami and had to go. If he was taken in the middle or late rounds and turned out to be the player he has been the last few years he would have been great for the Fin's. Since he was a high first round and the we also drafted his family could not justify overpaying to resign a #2 or #3 and KR with 1 standout game

Since he was a high first round and the we also drafted his family could not justify overpaying to resign a #2 or #3 and KR with 1 standout game

I've got a different take.

As a team and a front office, you must resist the temptation to view transactions based on draft position. With the stats that Ginn put up over his first three years, there was no need to hand him a big money contract. He didn't get big money on the free agent market either. We could have kept him at a reasonable salary, and continued working with him while we drafted a true #1 receiver, a true possession receiver, and he would have fit in just fine as our deep threat guy. Plus we eliminate the need for a KR and PR. A position we have struggled with for years now.

Bad move by the Fins, just another bad move, to let him walk.

Bottom line: I don't care where Ginn was drafted, if you have the right QB and the right play-caller, you should be able to get 5-10 total TDs out him per year (receiving, rushing and returns).  He can be a valuable part of a big-play offense, and that's exactly what he's shown both seasons he played in Carolina.  The Phins and Niners both misused him.

He never should have been drafted with the # 9 overall pick, and it didn't help the perception here that 1) 4 of the 6 players drafted after him have had much better pro careers, and 2) Cameron sounded like a complete idiot afterwards--as it turned out, Cameron usually sounded that way.

Parcells just didn't like him, and ended up all but giving him away to the 49ers.  Same thing he did with Satele.  Why he disliked Ginn but thought Pat White was worth a 2nd round pick is something I've never been able to figure out.

Square peg meet round hole. The list goes on with a disconnected front office that just put the head of college scouting into the role of GM. Expect some 3-4 defensive players for our 4-3 and cover 2 corners when we need man. Probably going to draft Henry at the 8th pick because we can't find a talented RB later in the draft. Plus I hear we need a DT since we signed Suh and drafted Phillips. One thing is certain, Dallas Thomas needs to be re-signed to a top five contract because we can't afford to lose him!

CarsonChris wrote:Square peg meet round hole. The list goes on with a disconnected front office that just put the head of college scouting into the role of GM.  Expect some 3-4 defensive players for our 4-3 and cover 2 corners when we need man. Probably going to draft Henry at the 8th pick because we can't find a talented RB later in the draft. Plus I hear we need a DT since we signed Suh and drafted Phillips.  One thing is certain, Dallas Thomas needs to be re-signed to a top five contract because we can't afford to lose him!

I want to laugh, but it's all so true...pathetic.  

If there's one thing I can HOPE (will never believe again until I see results), it's that our GM and head coach are on the same page this year and going forward.

For crying out loud, Grier was already hired as GM and part of the interview process as we talked to all the coaching candidates in that one week preceding the ultimate hiring of Gase.

Please tell me, that Grier, Gase (and Tannenbaum for that matter) all share a common vision on how to build this squad. If they don't, then yes we are already screwed before we make a single roster move or install a single offensive or defensive play. Building on that, if they are not aligned then it's Tannenbaum's fault because he hired both of them. No one to blame but his own-self if at all explodes in a failed mess.

It just doesn't make any sense to me for anyone to lament Ted Ginn of all people just because he happens to be in a Super Bowl now six seasons and three teams after the Fins let him walk--which I don't recall a single person complaining about at the time BTW.

Hell, if Ginn was so special then how is it that the Panthers got rid of him once already before he just *happened* to be available again two years later because no other NFL team wanted him, not even the Pats? Think they couldn't use a deep threat?

No offense Rightchea, you know you're my bro

To clarify, I didn't have any problem with letting Ginn go, but getting only a 5th for him (he was still on his rookie contract at the time, why couldn't we get a 3rd a la Stills this past off-season?) and a 6th for Satele (a two year starter at C still on his rookie contract) while spending 2nd and 3rds on the Pat Whites, Patrick Turners and John Jerrys of the world didn't exactly scream value. Either Parcells was phoning it in, or just not giving a damn. Just like JJ in '99.

Congrats to Ted Ginn. He wasn't getting there with us. His talent set did not fit this team, and it was a terrible pick.

DolFan 316 wrote:It just doesn't make any sense to me for anyone to lament Ted Ginn of all people just because he happens to be in a Super Bowl now six seasons and three teams after the Fins let him walk--which I don't recall a single person complaining about at the time BTW.

Hell, if Ginn was so special then how is it that the Panthers got rid of him once already before he just *happened* to be available again two years later because no other NFL team wanted him, not even the Pats? Think they couldn't use a deep threat?

No offense Rightchea, you know you're my bro

I don't thik anyone is lamenting that Ginn isn't on the Phins.  It's just another example of how the Phins had a dynamic player with a specific skillset and couldn't figure out how to use him, and gave him away for nothing only to watch him do well with another team.  Ginn was made the scapegoat of those crappy Dolphins teams because of where he was drafted and what Cameron said about him.  But the fact is, the problems went way depper than Ginn and still haven't been solved to this day.

white1 wrote:Please tell me, that Grier, Gase (and Tannenbaum for that matter) all share a common vision on how to build this squad.  If they don't, then yes we are already screwed before we make a single roster move or install a single offensive or defensive play. Building on that, if they are not aligned then it's Tannenbaum's fault because he hired both of them.  No one to blame but his own-self if at all explodes in a failed mess.

sorry white1, i can't tell you that. supposedly Hickey and Philbin shared a common vision (a flawed one, but common nonetheless) until Ross decided that wasn't enough and brought in Tannenbaum, with a different vision, to run the show. Tannenbaum has put an unqualified puppet in as GM - as in the guy who has run the Phins' "amazing" scouting department - to do his bidding (mostly overpay on FA contracts) while Ross gets his pick of the "flavor of the month" inexperienced coach in Gase. i think Tannenbaum has a flawed, expensive FA vision. Grier has no vision other than what Tannenbaum tells him. And now Ross has hand picked the coach and who has to figure out how to run Tannenbaum's team. i'm not getting a good feeling on any of this.

but as to the original purpose of this thread. i do not miss Ginn one bit. after banging around the league with a mostly useless career, he happens to be at the right place at the right time with Carolina. there are a lot of other guys in league that would look much, much better than Ginn has looked with a QB like Newton.

sorry white1, i can't tell you that. supposedly Hickey and Philbin shared a common vision (a flawed one, but common nonetheless) until Ross decided that wasn't enough and brought in Tannenbaum, with a different vision, to run the show. Tannenbaum has put an unqualified puppet in as GM - as in the guy who has run the Phins' "amazing" scouting department - to do his bidding (mostly overpay on FA contracts) while Ross gets his pick of the "flavor of the month" inexperienced coach in Gase. i think Tannenbaum has a flawed, expensive FA vision. Grier has no vision other than what Tannenbaum tells him. And now Ross has hand picked the coach and who has to figure out how to run Tannenbaum's team. i'm not getting a good feeling on any of this.

No arguing the fact that you could be totally right here.

I stand by my one point - if this does come to pass and it all implodes, Tannenbaum has no one to blame but himself. If Ross forced Gase on him, it's his fault he didn't make it clear why the selection of Gase is a bad idea and articulate the reasons it won't work.

This is Tannenbaum's show. There's no hiding if it does not go well. It's his to own.

There were a number of pro bowlers that left and made. Just not with the fins

white1 wrote:If Ross forced Gase on him, it's his fault he didn't make it clear why the selection of Gase is a bad idea and articulate the reasons it won't work.

Tannenbaum may well have made it clear - and Ross ignored him nonetheless.

i don't like defending Tannenbaum (and i won't as there is plenty to criticize), but the coaching choice and lack of a unified vision seems to begin at the top with Ross and his meddling. i suppose Tannenbaum could've stood on his principles if he didn't want Gase and walked away...but i suspect like many of us, that paycheck is hard to overlook. the crap roster and over-priced FAs might be Tannenbaum's fault, but the dysfunction and lack of unity and clarity falls on Ross in my book.

yes, Tannenbaum has a lot of power, but everyone answers to Ross and he is running this franchise like its his little toy...

"We feel really good about the result," Tannenbaum said. "We spent the better part of January working, Chris {Grier} and I with Adam, talking with [owner] Steve {Ross] daily about where we are.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2016/01/debunking-a-false-narrative-about-the-miami-dolphins-coaching-staff-.html

EVERY DAY!! Ross is involved and approving each step on a daily basis.

in the big game, Teddy did what Teddy does - drop passes and look for the sidelines well before contact.

mercury22nathan wrote:in the big game, Teddy did what Teddy does - drop passes and look for the sidelines well before contact.

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed his fraidy cat routine after finally making a big play. It seems even the thought of a SB ring wasn't enough to eliminate Ginn's utter fear of any sort of physical contact whatsoever He also sucked ass on punt returns--and he sure as hell had a lot of chances.

After last night I never want to see any DolFan complain about not having Ginn or Shula as OC ever again.

I'll never forget when Ginn was drafted. I was so happy Brady Quinn wasn't the pick I didn't care if he was overdrafted and I'll be honest, I didn't know who Patrick Willis was. I wanted Okoye, who really didn't do squat either.

Ted Ginn is what he is: a guy with outstanding speed that can get open deep against anybody, and a pretty damn good returner - but is soft as cotton and has poor hands.  Nothing has changed, other than the fact that he's now on a team that knows how to take advantage of his limited skillset.

Ted Ginn sure can run right the hell out of bounds, can't he?

Birdmond wrote:I'll never forget when Ginn was drafted.  I was so happy Brady Quinn wasn't the pick I didn't care if he was overdrafted and I'll be honest, I didn't know who Patrick Willis was.  I wanted Okoye, who really didn't do squat either.

Wait...what?!?! DIDN'T KNOW WHO WILLIS WAS?!?!

That was actually really ballsy of you to admit BTW.

Then again knowing who Willis was would've required you to know about Ole Miss so you were honestly better off.

DolFan 316 wrote:

Birdmond wrote:I'll never forget when Ginn was drafted.  I was so happy Brady Quinn wasn't the pick I didn't care if he was overdrafted and I'll be honest, I didn't know who Patrick Willis was.  I wanted Okoye, who really didn't do squat either.

Wait...what?!?! DIDN'T KNOW WHO WILLIS WAS?!?!

That was actually really ballsy of you to admit BTW.

Then again knowing who Willis was would've required you to know about Ole Miss so you were honestly better off.

No I didn't. Remember I was one of the only non SEC fan boys on the site at the time.