Draft move down and FA

white1 wrote:My newest fear is we trade up to draft Elliott.

I'm fine drafting him if he falls to 13 - trade up no. We need our picks

I'd give up a 3rd or 4th to move up and get a player who I believe is a difference maker. I'm just really nervous about ALL the first round CB's.

Miami can get a good DB in the second round but nothing under the second round. RB might be different. As far as trading up, I never like the sound of losing picks

At 13, I think the CBs that will be available are no better than the CBs the Phins can get with their pick in the 2nd. I'd prefer to go Ragland or DE, because the value of both of those positions won't be there in the 2nd IMO.

Here's our guy:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/kyler-fackrell?id=2555340

JMP wrote:At 13, I think the CBs that will be available are no better than the CBs the Phins can get with their pick in the 2nd. I'd prefer to go Ragland or DE, because the value of both of those positions won't be there in the 2nd IMO.

I agree.

The ultimate fail would be trading up to 8 to get him, when we already HAD the 8th pick.

scotgif wrote:The ultimate fail would be trading up to 8 to get him, when we already HAD the 8th pick.

That would be the absolute Finsiest move ever, which is why I'll now be shocked if it DOESN'T happen.

scotgif wrote:The ultimate fail would be trading up to 8 to get him, when we already HAD the 8th pick.

Not if Maxwell and Alonzo play well.

If Miami trades back up then they going after Elliott

Birdmond wrote:

scotgif wrote:The ultimate fail would be trading up to 8 to get him, when we already HAD the 8th pick.

Not if Maxwell and Alonzo play well.  

As Long-time Dolfans, do we really expect this to happen? More likely than not, one or both will be injured, and/or not perform to what they are cracked up to be. And, in a year or two, after one or both are gone, we will hear more of the "the coaches handcuffed us" BS loser talk.

Typical Dolphin BS.

Hopefully, I'm wrong... But we all know this is how we roll.

scotgif wrote:

Birdmond wrote:

scotgif wrote:The ultimate fail would be trading up to 8 to get him, when we already HAD the 8th pick.

Not if Maxwell and Alonzo play well.  

As Long-time Dolfans, do we really expect this to happen? More likely than not, one or both will be injured, and/or not perform to what they are cracked up to be. And, in a year or two, after one or both are gone, we will hear more of the "the coaches handcuffed us" BS loser talk.

Typical Dolphin BS.

Hopefully, I'm wrong... But we all know this is how we roll.

I expect Maxwell to be VERY good in this system and Alonzo to get hurt in preseason.

The thing I hate about Maxwell's game is that he plays soft.  Yeah, he's big - but he plays small.  I'm so tired of seeing soft Dolphin defenders, and to me it looks like Maxwell is another one.  I fully expect him to get dominated by the big receivers in the AFC East.

As for Alonzo, I loved him as a rookie but he looked like a shell of himself last season.  Part of that could be explained by recovery from his injury, but there's no excuse for looking totally lost.  I don't trust him at all, and I do think there's a high probability that he injures that leg again.

I'll be the first to admit I write players off to easily based on injuries. I hope I'm wrong on Alonzo because if he does regain his form and stays healthy that's a game changer there.

DolFan 316 wrote:

scotgif wrote:The ultimate fail would be trading up to 8 to get him, when we already HAD the 8th pick.

That would be the absolute Finsiest move ever, which is why I'll now be shocked if it DOESN'T happen.

and that is exactly what former GM Charley Casserly expects the Phins to do - and give up there second rounder in the process. why? cause as Casserly explains, that just what Tannenbaum does (see video).

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/mock-drafts/charley-casserly/305662

Oh man! I thought I was the gloom and doom sayer for this offseason, but some of you guys got me beat hands down!!!!

If Tannebaum trades UP.....Aiiiieeeeee!

I am running out of references for stupidity to refer to this buncha constipated losers!

What is worse than a buncha Drunken Monkeys???



I have been looking things over DRAFTWISE, let's assume the Eagles do not grab Zeke at Miami's former #8 pick (sniffs back a tear and keeps typing bravely...) I se NO WAY seeing Zeke get by Chicago. John Fox loves the running game and the more he can get the ball out of Jay Cutler's mitts, the more he likes it!!!

So, if Tannebaum has a stiffie for Zeke, he will have to trade up IMO. If he does, he should be....<<insert something unkind and cruel, also humiliating, and results in loss of anything to do with the Miami Dolphins franchise for the rest of eternity!!!!>>

Who knows what ill fate might await the miserable Phins Phans as this Off Season from Hades continues??!!!

Tune in Phin Phans.

Birdmond wrote:I hope I'm wrong on Alonzo because if he does regain his form and stays healthy that's a game changer there.  

Yep, without a doubt.  If he somehow plays at the level he played as a rookie, that would be HUGE for this Miami defense.  A dominant MLB would cure a lot of ills.

mercury22nathan wrote:

DolFan 316 wrote:

scotgif wrote:The ultimate fail would be trading up to 8 to get him, when we already HAD the 8th pick.

That would be the absolute Finsiest move ever, which is why I'll now be shocked if it DOESN'T happen.

and that is exactly what former GM Charley Casserly expects the Phins to do - and give up there second rounder in the process.  why?  cause as Casserly explains, that just what Tannenbaum does (see video).

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/mock-drafts/charley-casserly/305662

Wow...that would be insane.

But it all comes down to Maxwell and Alonzo.  If those guys play great or even good, then the whole "we traded for two starters" justification looks genius.  But if those guys suck, it becomes a monumentally EPIC fail...especially if we trade a 2nd to move up and draft the guy we could've drafted at 8 in the first place!

Birdmond wrote:I'll be the first to admit I write players off to easily based on injuries.

And you're absolutely right to do so. Health is a skill. Being injury-prone is a real thing.

finfanatic wrote:Oh man! I thought I was the gloom and doom sayer for this offseason, but some of you guys got me beat hands down!!!!

I keep telling you, you still have much to learn, grasshopper

Seriously, you know it's bad when ex-GMs are PREDICTING exactly what sort of mind-blowingly dumb things Tannenbaum will do

(BTW sorry Merc, but I didn't and won't watch the vid. Some things are just too depressing even for my standards. Hope you understand.)

JMP wrote:Wow...that would be insane.

But it all comes down to Maxwell and Alonzo.  If those guys play great or even good, then the whole "we traded for two starters" justification looks genius.  But if those guys suck, it becomes a monumentally EPIC fail...especially if we trade a 2nd to move up and draft the guy we could've drafted at 8 in the first place!

Just remember who predicted it to begin with. MOI Casserly's just ridin' my coattails. I never knew he read this site

DolFan 316 wrote:

JMP wrote:Wow...that would be insane.

But it all comes down to Maxwell and Alonzo.  If those guys play great or even good, then the whole "we traded for two starters" justification looks genius.  But if those guys suck, it becomes a monumentauully EPIC fail...especially if we trade a 2nd to move up and draft the guy we could've drafted at 8 in the first place!

Just remember who predicted it to begin with. MOI Casserly's just ridin' my coattails. I never knew he read this site

You've been working some weird hours my friend. I used to be able to accurately predict when you'll be on line. What's up? Girlfriend restrict internet access?

Birdmond wrote:You've been working some weird hours my friend.  I used to be able to accurately predict when you'll be on line.   What's up?  Girlfriend restrict internet access?

Only on the weekend when she hogs the PC for stuff she has to do. I did get an e-mail from AT&T regarding changes in allowable data usage next month I didn't like Since I've worked from home the entire time I've been posting I can actually do it any time I like My sleep pattern's just been really all over the place lately.

I love this time of year because everyone keeps guessing what the other teams are doing. I understand the challenges that are tannebaum but it could be that we are positioning our leverage in the draft.

With so many needs this year more than any other, we would never solve any issues in 3 years with that 8th pick. trading back on paper, seemed like a logical move because we got two potential starters! the value in the trade will only be determined on whether Alonso and Maxwell pan out. They don't need to make the pro bowl but simply play your role and limit mistakes.

I don't think 13 is a good spot for us right now. IMHO, Tunsil, Buckner, Elliot, and Ramsey are the only sure fire players! all will more than likely be gone. we need starters not hall of famers right now. We need to move back and load picks in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.

we need starters not hall of famers right now. We need to move back and load picks in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.

That is the conventional wisdom from what I've been gathering. The challenge this year are that several teams have reached the same conclusion, so there is a glut of teams looking to trade down. Our best chance IMO is if a team covets one of the QBs, and they are still available when we pick at #13.

I think the surefire guys will be long gone (Jack, Ramsey, Tunsil, Elliott, etc) - so really only trade bait left will be one (or more) of the first round QBs.

Most likely, we won't find a partner to trade down. In that case, I would expect us to take one of the highly rated CBs (Hargreaves, Apple or Jackson III). Or, we could select a defensive linemen if one of the top guys falls to us.

Umix makes some good points BUT....

At some point, if you do not have a DIFFERENCE MAKER(s) playing on your team SOMEWHERE, then everything else is just so much fluff IMO.

Good and solid is one thing, but it does not win Super Bowls IMO.

If any player drafted between 8 and 12 turns out to be a real impact player, we are going to look back on this draft as another "JJ trading down for John Avery" type trade IMO.

Especially if the Phins 1st pick turns out to stink.

That said....I have run some of the drafts where they let you pick a team's players for all the rounds....the 2nd thru 4th rounds have been KILLERS for me!

Another 2nd, 3rd, and or 4th round pick would sure be real nice!

That's why these guys get paid the big bucks tho. To make these decisions and allow us internet message board experts to rake them over the coals unmercifully!!!

Umix10 wrote:I love this time of year because everyone keeps guessing what the other teams are doing.  I understand the challenges that are tannebaum but it could be that we are positioning our leverage in the draft.

With so many needs this year more than any other, we would never solve any issues in 3 years with that 8th pick.  trading back on paper, seemed like a logical move because we got two potential starters! the value in the trade will only be determined on whether Alonso and Maxwell pan out. They don't need to make the pro bowl but simply play your role and limit mistakes.

I don't think 13 is a good spot for us right now.  IMHO, Tunsil, Buckner, Elliot, and Ramsey are the only sure fire players!  all will more than likely be gone.  we need starters not hall of famers right now.  We need to move back and load picks in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.  

I'm usually on board with you, Umix, but I have to disagree here.  I think we need to add as much All Pro-caliber talent as possible...that is what is really missing from this roster.  Other than Suh and maybe Reshad Jones, there is not one player on this team that could legitimately be in the discussion of "the best at his position".  That's a problem.  For too many years we've drafted role players and low-end starters.  That has to change.  We're not going to compete with good teams if we continue to field a team of lesser players.  It would be difficult to find another team that is so devoid of talent at positions like CB, OG and LB, for example.  We need home runs in the draft, not singles and groundouts.

I do agree with you that 13 isn't a great spot to pick.  All of the top guys will be long gone.  But I do think we could grab a very good player at DE or LB (Ragland), and maybe even shock the world with a WR like Treadwell.  Bottom line, though, as I said - we need a home run.  Not just a starter, but a very good if not great player, regardless of position.  No reaches, no projects, no scrubs.