Arian Foster working out for Phins today

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Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by mercury22nathan on Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:54 am

Free agent running back Arian Foster will work out for the Dolphins on Monday, nine months after a ruptured Achilles prematurely ended his season with Houston.

A source confirmed to me the workout, which was reported by Adam Schefter earlier this evening.

Foster, who averaged just 2.6 yards on 63 carries last season, visited the Dolphins earlier this offseason, but that visit was more exploratory in the sense that the Dolphins wanted to check on his progress from surgery.

At that time, they had no intention of signing him. This time around, the interest is at least somewhat more serious.

Foster also plans to work out for the Lions this week.

If Foster impresses Dolphins officials on Monday, they are expected to seriously consider making an offer, though it's not assured that they would.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-buzz/2016/07/arian-foster-visiting-dolphins-on-monday.html

just kicking the tires - or perhaps more?

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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by DolFan 316 on Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:51 pm

So this team has finally realized that sadly, even a completely washed up Foster is better than anyone they currently have? It's about damn time.

Yeah yeah, I know, I'm always going on about how irrelevant the running game is in today's NFL. And it is. But you still need *somebody* halfway competent back there. IMO this is the worst situation the Fins have been in at RB in about 25 years. Well okay, there was '07 but this right now is looking almost as bad.

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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by DolFan 316 on Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:26 pm

BTW I just found something that might be interesting. Last season the Fins ran almost exclusively from a one-back formation, with just 11 runs all season when 2 RBs were in the backfield Shocked Only the Eagles had fewer attempts out of a multi-back formation.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/running-number-backs-2015

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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by mercury22nathan on Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:49 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:BTW I just found something that might be interesting. Last season the Fins ran almost exclusively from a one-back formation, with just 11 runs all season when 2 RBs were in the backfield Shocked Only the Eagles had fewer attempts out of a multi-back formation.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/running-number-backs-2015

and considering that both Gase's recent coaching stops in Chicago and Denver are ranked 28 and 30 respectively - and the fact that there is no fullback on the roster - i'm going to guess that the Phins' one-back trend won't be changing anytime soon.

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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by white1 on Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:37 pm

Signed him to a 1 year 1.5 million dollar deal.

Good low risk signing, adding a proven veteran to a young stable of backs. Only way Thomas or Pead make the squad now is if Foster gets hurt in preseason. I wouldn't give him many preseason carries.


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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by JMP on Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:58 pm

mercury22nathan wrote:
DolFan 316 wrote:BTW I just found something that might be interesting. Last season the Fins ran almost exclusively from a one-back formation, with just 11 runs all season when 2 RBs were in the backfield Shocked Only the Eagles had fewer attempts out of a multi-back formation.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/running-number-backs-2015

and considering that both Gase's recent coaching stops in Chicago and Denver are ranked 28 and 30 respectively - and the fact that there is no fullback on the roster - i'm going to guess that the Phins' one-back trend won't be changing anytime soon.

yep. The fact is, Gase's offense isn't going to look all that different from Lazor's in terms of formations. It'll be almost exclusively shotgun with 11 personnel (1 back, 1 TE, 3 receivers including a slot) - just like Lazor. The hope is that the playcalling will be better, but it's going to look very similar to what we've seen the past couple of years.

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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by JMP on Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:00 pm

white1 wrote:Signed him to a 1 year 1.5 million dollar deal.

Good low risk signing, adding a proven veteran to a young stable of backs.  Only way Thomas or Pead make the squad now is if Foster gets hurt in preseason.  I wouldn't give him many preseason carries.


I like it. Foster immediately becomes the best back on this roster, and it's not even close. If he is even at 90% healthy, he has to be the day one starter - it's a no brainer. I don't know if the coaches will make this an open competition or just hand the job to Ajayi, but if it's up for grabs Foster should win easily barring injury.

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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by Degarmo on Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:04 pm

It's a waste. Foster will be injured. Ever since he turned vegan he's been on the IR.
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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by JMP on Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:37 am

Degarmo wrote:It's a waste.  Foster will be injured.  Ever since he turned vegan he's been on the IR.

Yeah, Foster probably will get injured...but while he's playing he's the best we have. Hopefully Ajayi can pick up some things from him, because in theory he could be the same type of all-purpose back if he learns the nuances of running, blocking and receiving that Foster excels at when healthy.

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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by white1 on Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:58 am

Agree on the likelihood of injury, but that's why we have 2nd year back Ajayi and rookie Drake on the roster as well. Depth for the inevitability of injury, at one of the most oft-injured positions across the NFL.


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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by scotgif on Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:27 am

This sounds like Knowshon Moreno part 2. Take an oft-injured high-quality vet RB and try and get as much mileage out of him as you can. We got one pretty good year out of Moreno. Actually, not even a full year. Injury (go figure) ended his season early.
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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by white1 on Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:42 am

Good point and Moreno played I think just a few games.

He was, however, key in our victory against the Patriots in week 1 that year. 134 yards on 24 carries, literally pounded them to death on the ground.

Awesome game to watch and quite the shocker. Of course, the Pats improved over the season while our team regressed. As usual.

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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by DolFan 316 on Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:49 pm

white1 wrote:Agree on the likelihood of injury, but that's why we have 2nd year back Ajayi and rookie Drake on the roster as well.  Depth for the inevitability of injury, at one of the most oft-injured positions across the NFL.

Ajayi and Drake are just as likely to be injured as Foster IMO. It's like the Fins are trying to collect as many injury-prone RBs as they can for some reason. At least Foster was actually good at one point.

scotgif wrote:This sounds like Knowshon Moreno part 2. Take an oft-injured high-quality vet RB and try and get as much mileage out of him as you can. We got one pretty good year out of Moreno. Actually, not even a full year. Injury (go figure) ended his season early.

More like one good game. But at least he made it count Very Happy If Foster helps beat the Pats once then as far as I'm concerned he'll have justified the signing, I'm not expecting anything more from him honestly.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoreKn00/gamelog/2014/

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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by Degarmo on Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:11 pm

In my opinion, the reason so many RBs get hurt more than ever now is because of the lack of hitting in practice. You need to get in hitting shape. It's an actual thing. Case in point, there's this guy who can kick through baseball bats with his shins, three at once actually. A normal person would blow up their leg doing it, but he's tempered his bones through practice to do it . It's an extreme example, but there is such a thing as hitting shape.

So, there will always be injury there, but when you get guys that already are breaking down in one way or another, you exponentially increase that issue to arise again.

It's what we do though. I've picked an excellent year to shitcan Sunday Ticket and DirecTV's fucking outrageous pricing structure. I'll just deal with illegal streams, or better yet, just watch Red Zone on Charter Cable when I move out to California here shortly.
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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by JMP on Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:30 pm

Great post, Degarmo. Seems to me that injuries are way up across the board, not just RB, since the no-hitting policy came in.

The Dolphins are stockpiling players with injury histories this offseason. Very risky to count on all of them staying healthy.

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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by white1 on Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:44 pm

To me this approach screams rebuild, whether the team admits it or not. Players with injury histories have been acquired from a value perspective.

2016 is Tannehill's live audition in Gase's offense. By far the most important question to answer is will Gase ride with him long term or will we go back to the drawing board at QB in 2017?

You can see it in our approach in multiple ways, many of which have been pointed out by various people here on the forum:

- We dumped an aging Grimes and brought on a much younger Maxwell, who will fill one starting corner spot long term.
- We added several players to the roster using short-term deals. Foster only adds to that trend. Outside Suh, the starters on our defensive line are all temporary solutions. Kiko Alonso is finishing out his rookie year. Stills is on the last year of his contract. No one at TE is signed long term. Albert is nearing the end of his career.
- Across the board you can point out several examples where starters are either rookies, young players or aged veterans. Our roster is one of the youngest, if not the youngest, in the league.
- We did not come close to spending the max against the cap this year, and let guys like Lamar Miller, Vernon and Matthews walk.

The way this team is structured, we have the flexibility to make a drastic pivot in any number of directions over the next two years, starting with next offseason. The only player we are really committed to long term is Suh, and that's not a bad thing, considering he is a top 5 defensive lineman that opposing teams have to game plan for.

Big things in 2016? Nah, I don't think so. But building for success long term? Hell yes, if we can hit on our drafts and get the right pieces through free agency.

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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by JMP on Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:46 pm

Nice post, white. 

I agree with a lot of what you said, and I think the team really is trying to rebuild and is looking to free up some cap space for the next couple of seasons.

That said, the only thing that really matters with this plan is the draft.  If we continue to draft role players and career backups, the plan will absolutely fail.  I am not convinced that this 2016 draft is anything more than filler, and really, that's not going to work.  We need players that are going to be legitimate starters sooner rather than later...and by 'legitimate' I don't mean guys that are starters simply because there's no one else.  Fielding a starting team of Koa Misi-type players is not the answer.  Somehow, some way, the Dolphins are going to have to start getting A drafts instead of C drafts.

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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by Degarmo on Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:23 pm

The problem with rebuilds is in this age they have to be accomplished quickly. We haven't taken the necessary big first step. You don't have 5 seasons to get it done anymore.
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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by DolFan 316 on Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:45 pm

white1 wrote:Big things in 2016? Nah, I don't think so.  But building for success long term? Hell yes, if we can hit on our drafts and get the right pieces through free agency.

You had me dreaming of a day when this team would finally clean house once and for all. I was getting a vision. And then you said that Laughing Razz

But seriously, I love your optimism. Probably because you're not forcing it down my throat like certain people on a certain other site used to. It's just your honest opinion. I've never had a problem with people giving their honest opinion.

JMP wrote:That said, the only thing that really matters with this plan is the draft.  If we continue to draft role players and career backups, the plan will absolutely fail.  I am not convinced that this 2016 draft is anything more than filler, and really, that's not going to work.  We need players that are going to be legitimate starters sooner rather than later...and by 'legitimate' I don't mean guys that are starters simply because there's no one else.  Fielding a starting team of Koa Misi-type players is not the answer.  Somehow, some way, the Dolphins are going to have to start getting A drafts instead of C drafts.

PREACH AWN, BRUTHA!!! TESTIFY!!!

Yes, I was waiting for a chance to say that. It's been too long Smile

Degarmo wrote:The problem with rebuilds is in this age they have to be accomplished quickly.  We haven't taken the necessary big first step.  You don't have 5 seasons to get it done anymore.

Nor should you. It only took JJ four seasons to get the Cowboys from 1-15 to SB winners. Hell, it only took the Fins five seasons to go from being formed to the playoffs. And that was when expansion teams were expected to suck for a while. This five seasons thing is outdated, antiquated, and for suckers. I would even go so far as to say these days three seasons might be the limit.

Of course that all depends on getting the right coach and players, which this team has been utterly horrible at doing this century.

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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by Degarmo on Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:57 pm

In this day and age, you have three years at the most. Free agency, injuries, suspensions, all that crap factors into your team having nearly constant turnover.

It's really more like one year to start winning, then start competing for championships immediately thereafter, or you're stuck in the mud of the constant rebuild cycle.
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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by JMP on Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:46 pm

Yep, that's why you can't afford to draft players that aren't ready to play. At least 5 of the 8 players the Dolphins drafted this year are projects, and role players at best. Obviously you can't draft 8 superstars every year, but the goal of the draft should not be to stack the bottom of your roster - it should be to build the middle and top of your roster. Guys like Jakeem Grant, Kenyan Drake and Thomas Duarte are NEVER going to be legitimate NFL starters...NEVER.

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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by rightchea on Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:26 am

That is true Miami doesn't look for players that can start day one but they look for player that they hope that they can develop. IMO, Miami isn't looking for a super bowl win but just enough to say that they are okay.

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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by white1 on Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:26 pm

Interesting tidbit on Gase running scheme and Ajayi vs Foster comparison, lifted this from Barry Jackson blog on the Herald:

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-buzz/2016/07/wednesday-night-six-pack-cam-wake-dolphins-secondary-um-footballbasketballbaseball-buzz-big-marlins-.html

The Dolphins don’t read anything into Arian Foster’s 2.6 yards per carry average last season because he played just four games.

Pro Football Focus says this about the move: “Assuming Foster gets back to form not from 2015, he should be a solid fit in that scheme as well, but Jay Ajayi’s numbers suggest he might be an even better fit, and shouldn’t automatically get dropped down the depth chart to accommodate Foster.

“In Chicago, Adam Gase ran primarily inside zone as the primary run concept. 48.9 percent of the team’s rushes last season were inside zone runs, and the team was pretty successful running them, averaging 4.2 yards per carry. Foster was bad across the board last year even before injury shut him down, but what is interesting is that Ajayi outperformed not just Foster, but also the Bears as a team when running inside zone. Ajayi gained half a yard more per carry than the Bears and 1.6 yards per carry more than Foster running inside zone plays, and was markedly more productive on those runs than other concepts in 2015.”

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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by JMP on Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:19 pm

white1 wrote:Interesting tidbit on Gase running scheme and Ajayi vs Foster comparison, lifted this from Barry Jackson blog on the Herald:

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-buzz/2016/07/wednesday-night-six-pack-cam-wake-dolphins-secondary-um-footballbasketballbaseball-buzz-big-marlins-.html

The Dolphins don’t read anything into Arian Foster’s 2.6 yards per carry average last season because he played just four games.

Pro Football Focus says this about the move: “Assuming Foster gets back to form not from 2015, he should be a solid fit in that scheme as well, but Jay Ajayi’s numbers suggest he might be an even better fit, and shouldn’t automatically get dropped down the depth chart to accommodate Foster.

“In Chicago, Adam Gase ran primarily inside zone as the primary run concept. 48.9 percent of the team’s rushes last season were inside zone runs, and the team was pretty successful running them, averaging 4.2 yards per carry. Foster was bad across the board last year even before injury shut him down, but what is interesting is that Ajayi outperformed not just Foster, but also the Bears as a team when running inside zone. Ajayi gained half a yard more per carry than the Bears and 1.6 yards per carry more than Foster running inside zone plays, and was markedly more productive on those runs than other concepts in 2015.”


I could be wrong, but I think several of Ajayi's inside zone runs were on draws in long yardage situations.  I seem to recall that a few of his first carries came in those situations, and people thought he was going to be a stud because he gained big yards on those carries.  Of course, nearly every RB gains big yards on draw plays up the gut in long yardage when the D is playing pass.  Anyway, I'm just saying that assumptions like Jackson makes here should be taken with a grain of salt.  Bottom line for me is that Ajayi can't hold Foster's jock at this stage IMHO.

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Re: Arian Foster working out for Phins today

Post by DolFan 316 on Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:41 pm

There's actually an Ajayi highlight vid from last season on Youtube, but it's so bereft of anything substantial that I can't in good conscience post it here. Plus the music is terribad. But if you want to take almost 4 minutes of your life to see it, feel free.

Or I suppose you can look up all his individual runs on PFR, that would work too.

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