Draft class struggling

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Draft class struggling

Post by mercury22nathan on Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:51 am

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/dolphins-blog/sfl-miami-dolphins-rookie-draft-class-off-to-slow-start-20160812-story.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sports%2FMiamiDolphinsweblog+%28Miami+Dolphins+%7C+Sun-Sentinel+Blogs%29

Plenty of hype surrounded the Miami Dolphins rookie class, which was filled with bold talkers who possessed strong personalities.

Unfortunately for the Dolphins, the rookie class' verbal game has exceeded their football game heading into tonight's preseason opener against the New York Giants.

None of the eight draft picks have earned starting spots, and only one - first-round pick Laremy Tunsil - has a realistic change to take one before the regular season begins.

Two of the selections - cornerback Xavien Howard (surgically repaired right knee) and tailback Kenyan Drake (hamstring strain) - are nursing injuries that might keep them out of preseason games.

Miami's two drafted receivers - Leonte Carroo and Jakeem Grant - are both struggling with their consistency.

And the Dolphins final three picks - cornerback Jordan Lucas, quarterback Brandon Doughty and tight end Thomas Duarte - haven't impressived enough to earn a spot on Miami's 53-man roster. All three need strong preseason performances to move themselves up the depth chart, potentially securing practice squad spots.

so how do you respond to this?

a. relax. they'll be fine. its way too early to start evaluating this draft class.

b. disappointing. i really thought this draft class would make an impact.

c. DUH!! i could've told ya back in April this class was worthless.

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by JMP on Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:11 am

Pretty much C for me. When you draft primarily projects and role players, this is what you get. It was a C draft class at best at the time, and now it's looking more like a D...if not an F. The saga continues.

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by DolFan 316 on Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:45 am

Why should this Fins draft class be any different than the previous 17 or so?

It's like Philbin never left. I see the same insistence that rookies ride the pine and see as little playing time as possible.

Meh.

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by white1 on Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:22 am

Omar writes this after about ten days in camp.  New meaning to the term "early assessment".

I''ll refrain from debating the merits of any of our rookies until about week 10 or so.

EDIT: I used the word "early", but "premature" is better.

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by DolFan 316 on Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:17 pm

No, not premature. Right after the first preseason game of '96 is when Zach took Jack Del Rio's job and ran him out of the NFL as a player, for example.

When a rookie is good he'll tend to show something right out of the gate.

Also, Fins rookies have a history of sucking anyway. Tunsil not being the starting guard is really the only surprise, and that's apparently because Dallas Thomas is a world class suckup.

Did anyone really think a QB whose arm makes Pennington's look like Marino's (Doughty), a slow WR converted to TE who can't block at all but thinks he's Jordan Reed (Duarte), a converted safety (Lucas), a CB selected solely due to his height and might not be able to actually play (Howard) yet another injury prone RB (Drake) and someone who might not be the biggest kid on a Pee Wee team (Grant) would really amount to anything in the NFL? And what exactly did Caroo ever show in college to justify the absurd tradeup to get him?

Buncha injury-prone projects. The Fins love drafting those. And if they draft a guy who can actually play a position well, they'll make him a project by forcing him to play 1-2 others because "versatility" Rolling Eyes

This class already seems like it might make the infamous class of '13 look good, and that's saying something.

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by Degarmo on Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:25 am

DolFan 316 wrote:

It's like Philbin never left. I see the same insistence that rookies ride the pine and see as little playing time as possible.


Wait until you see the "new" offense. I don't notice any difference at all between Gase and Lazor at this point.
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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by DolFan 316 on Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:49 am

I did see it. Seems like the same old "don't even try to run a play past the first down marker" offense to me.

My favorite part was Thomas getting rollerskated back into Tannehill. And I'm supposed to believe Tunsil is worse than HIM? Yeah right, whatevs Rolling Eyes

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by HalCHorn on Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:11 am

Grant looks like a good value at this point. He will never be an every down player but if he's even a poor man's Darren Sproles that's a plus.

Doughty should be better than Matt Moore eventually at least. Had no problem with taking him where he was taken.

Tunsil at 13, no problem with the value. All the picks in between? I have some concerns. Howard over Alexander is the big mistake IMO. Hope I'm wrong.

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by JMP on Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:37 am

white1 wrote:Omar writes this after about ten days in camp.  New meaning to the term "early assessment".

I''ll refrain from debating the merits of any of our rookies until about week 10 or so.

EDIT:  I used the word "early", but "premature" is better.

I get what you're saying, but looking at these draft picks, who really stands out and seems like they could develop into a star, or at least a legit starter? Tunsil, sure...although he's currently playing out of position and I think he's very overrated. After that, maybe Howard if he can stay healthy...although his college career was very much up and down. Carroo can make some plays, but his lack of speed makes me think he'll never be more than an extra receiver. Beyond hat, I see a lot of role players and benchwarmers that will have short NFL careers.

So yep, I agree - too early to write them off...but you also have to have realistic expectations. To me, this was not a draft class that will help to get the Dolphins to the next level.

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by DolFan 316 on Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:59 am

Speaking of draft classes, this one just keeps looking worse and worse, doesn't it?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=2013&year_max=2013&draft_round_min=1&draft_round_max=30&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=500&pick_type=overall&team_id=mia&pos=qb&pos=rb&pos=wr&pos=te&pos=e&pos=t&pos=g&pos=c&pos=ol&pos=dt&pos=de&pos=dl&pos=ilb&pos=olb&pos=lb&pos=cb&pos=s&pos=db&pos=k&pos=p&college_id=all&conference_id=any&show=all&order_by=default

So much for this silly business of needing 4 years to properly evaluate, or however long people say these days. BTW Tannehill's the sole survivor of the '12 draft class, although at least Miller, Vernon and Matthews amounted to something. We should take it as a huge compliment when other teams actively seek out Fins' draftees years after the fact. It doesn't happen very often.

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by white1 on Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:05 am

I'm really torn on that one. So we drafted some legitimate prized free agents in Vernon, Miller and even Mathews, yet we did not reap the rewards of finding our own young talent. Instead we let them go.

True, the price for Vernon was more than we could afford to pay.

Perhaps we write this off as the cost of the constant churn we've had in the front office and coaching staff? System fit and all that?

At least we have hope for one reason. Hey we DRAFTED four NFL starters in one class. Certainly that's a good thing, right?

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by DolFan 316 on Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:08 am

white1 wrote:I'm really torn on that one.  So we drafted some legitimate prized free agents in Vernon, Miller and even Mathews, yet we did not reap the rewards of finding our own young talent.  Instead we let them go.

True, the price for Vernon was more than we could afford to pay.  

Perhaps we write this off as the cost of the constant churn we've had in the front office and coaching staff? System fit and all that?

At least we have hope for one reason.  Hey we DRAFTED four NFL starters in one class.  Certainly that's a good thing, right?

I said before any of them left that I would not blame Miller, Vernon and Matthews one bit for doing so. If you were in their shoes would you not have done the same? We all know what a dumpster fire this team is, and we're only getting secondhand info. Imagine how much more someone knows who's actually there day after day for years.


Last edited by DolFan 316 on Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:17 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by white1 on Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:15 am

I can't blame them, but at the same time the reality is that money talks in the NFL.

If we really wanted Matthews, Miller or Vernon, we simply would have outbid our competition. Added to the Florida tax laws, we have the advantage financially.

The loss of all players simply came down to the fact we did not want to retain them.

This goes to my earlier posts, this team is clearly rebuilding. Whether they admit it or not. A team that wants to contend right now does not let young talent walk with nothing in return.

Instead of signing Vernon, Matthews or Miller to long term deals we brought in replacements on 1 or 2 year deals. In the case of Foster and Williams, older vets at that - meaning we really will have no choice but to replace them in the near term with younger talent.

The one exception is at WR. We have Parker, Landry and now Carroo all on rookie deals. Stills is on the last year of his contract, if nothing changes he is gone after 2016. He just hasn't shown enough to resign here. He probably won't want to either, if he never catches on - like last year. So in this respect, I can see why Matthews was not retained. How many receivers can a team really pay? You know Landry will break the bank. He's arguably our best player on offense.

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by JMP on Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:20 am

Definitely rebuilding...look at all the players we have on one-year deals.  I'm totally fine with that if we start drafting well.  Unfortunately, that's easier said than done.  Expect another big roster purge after this season.

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by white1 on Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:30 am

Totally expecting a roster purge after this season.

If we come out of 2016 with a good, solid offensive line in place long term - I for one will be thrilled. If we also end up with 2 or 3 starting defensive backs that prove themselves worthy this year, that will by far exceed my expectations. A quarterback? Probably too much to hope for.

I'm not convinced Tannehill will ever turn the corner. Just knowing one way or the other is a good thing, I guess. We've been in limbo with him for way too long.

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by rightchea on Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:46 am

I know that Gase is looking into a QB in next year's draft. IMO Tannehill is going to be gone by next training camp

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by white1 on Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:49 am

Entirely possible. Hell, given where I think our cap space could be, we could even sign a free agent QB to hold the reigns while we coach up a rookie QB.

Not sure about the QB class of 2017 though. In fact I heard early reports it is kind of weak.

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by rightchea on Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:11 am

Just saw on ESPN.com that Laremy Tunsil is starting at practice I really hope this means that Dallas Thomas is out of the picture. He sucks at Guard and needs to be replaced.

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by JMP on Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:29 am

white1 wrote:If we come out of 2016 with a good, solid offensive line in place long term - I for one will be thrilled.  If we also end up with 2 or 3 starting defensive backs that prove themselves worthy this year, that will by far exceed my expectations.  A quarterback? Probably too much to hope for.  

Not sure the OL will be solved long-term:

- Albert will probably not be back in 2017 ($10.6 million cap hit, and Tunsil will take his job)
- James could be in danger of losing his starting job this season and is a FA in 2018 - and he's an easy cut in 2017 if needed
- Turner has struggled and is a FA in 2018 - and he's an easy cut in 2017 if needed
- Thomas is a FA in 2017
- Bushrod will be 33 next summer and is a FA in 2017

I'm sure Pouncey is safe, but keep in mind that he has a cap hit of $9 million in both 2017 and 2018...you never know...

So, really, Tunsil and probably Pouncey are the only locks beyond this season...

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by DolFan 316 on Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:14 pm

Yup. The O-line is the absolute last area of this team that is or should be set after the season. Hell, at this point I'd prefer everybody except Tunsil gone.

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by finfanatic on Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:16 pm

I admit to being underwhelmed by this draft class, and more than bit perplexed by some of the moves.

The trade up for Caroo???

I was never a fan of Tannenbaum, and still admit to thinking he is a "poser", but I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

As of now, I am leaning towards "He stinks!"

There just does not seem to be a plan in place. More a bunch of random moves based on some vague ill-defined insight shared by only those in in the inner circle. Shades of the "Drunken Monkey Clan" begin to rise unbidden in my mind.

SOMEBODY needs to take a top-down approach to team building and make some LONG TERM PLANS...at least for the next three years or so. I just do not think anything LIKE THAT is being used for the Phins. Everything seems to be for some immediate goal.

"We MUST have Caroo or the team is doomed!!! Trade away whatever to get him!!!"

I am still at a loss to understand some of the draft picks.

At this point, Tunsil is the ONLY ONE I would think might be termed close to a sure-thing, but his history of dumbarsedness makes that a non-starter.

This could be one of those renowned Dolphins drafts; more for the utter EPIC FAIL of it than for being good.

Sad to say.

Rolling Eyes

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by JMP on Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:41 pm

I tend to agree, FF.

Forgetting Tunsil, who should be fine if he can stay away from the weed, here's my take on the picks:

Howard was a maddeningly inconsistent corner in college...sometimes good, sometimes awful.  Doesn't appear to have a very high ceiling.

Drake is an injury-prone part-time player that is only suited as a third-down back on offense (assuming he ever learns to pass protect).  He should in theory be a good STs player, but that's not enough to warrant a 3rd down pick.  Throw-away pick, IMO.

Carroo is big and slow.  He is strong and has good hands, but there's a hundred street free agents with his skillset available at any given moment.  I don't necessarily have a problem with drafting him in the third (although I wouldn't have), but the Phins gave up way too much to trade up for him.

Grant is tiny and fast.  Assuming he doesn't break in half ala Pat White (who actually looked big compared to Grant!), he can be a returner and very limited role player on offense.  I suppose it's good if we get something out of a 6th rounder, but again, there are guys with this skillset scattered all over the undrafted FA pile.

Lucas seems like a throw-away pick to me.

Doughty has surprised me, but he's got a very limited skillset and I don't see him ever being more than a clipboard holder. 

Duarte seems like another throw-away pick that will hang around the practice squad for a couple of years before fading into obscurity.

Overall, not what I was hoping for from this draft.  Very little in the way of immediate impact, and not much better looking at long-term prospects.

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by DolFan 316 on Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:27 pm

finfanatic wrote:SOMEBODY needs to take a top-down approach to team building and make some LONG TERM PLANS...at least for the next three years or so. I just do not think anything LIKE THAT is being used for the Phins. Everything seems to be for some immediate goal.

"We MUST have Caroo or the team is doomed!!! Trade away whatever to get him!!!"

Even in that context, trading up for Caroo made absolutely no sense.

JMP wrote:Lucas seems like a throw-away pick to me.

From what I've been reading he might not even make the team. You have to be a hot mess of a dumpster fire of a draft pick not to make a team these days.

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by rightchea on Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:49 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:Yup. The O-line is the absolute last area of this team that is or should be set after the season. Hell, at this point I'd prefer everybody except Tunsil gone.

Yeah what you say is true but you know that is not going to happen. At least three to five of those guys are going to be staying next year. Even if they are not starters they will be backups

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Re: Draft class struggling

Post by finfanatic on Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:48 pm

Well, one has to wonder if Tannenbaum is counting on getting some supplemental picks for the free agents he lost this year? A 3rd or two and the Carroo trade up does not look " as stupid" from a cost in picks perspective.


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