Billy Turner to be Released

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by JMP on Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:36 pm

mercury22nathan wrote:
Gase seemed to say the Dolphins kept Thomas and Turner, who were both cut Tuesday, on the roster as reserves because they couldn’t find anyone better.

“A lot of times everybody thinks it’s really easy to just say, ‘Hey, let’s go grab this guy,’ ” Gase said.

“I mean, who’s out there? We’ve got a list of guys that we’re always tracking and evaluating. This is part of our evaluation process. At the time, that’s where we were at. That was the roster we went with and we decided to make a change.”

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/dolphins-blog/sfl-adam-gase-answers-two-important-questions-20161013-story.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sports%2FMiamiDolphinsweblog+%28Miami+Dolphins+%7C+Sun-Sentinel+Blogs%29

wait - what??  this front office had the entire offseason and was unable to find anyone better than Dallas Thomas?  i mean, isn't that their job - to improve the roster?  this is a total fail.

Wow, that is VERY disturbing.  It speaks to the total lack of talent evaluation skill in this organization.

It also doesn't make sense.  You kept Thomas and Turner because you couldn't find anyone better, but now 40 days later you cut them without finding anyone better.  Huh???   scratch

Gase sounds more clueless by the day.  If this keeps up and the team continues to tank, there's absolutely no way you can let this fraud coach a second season.  He has no idea what he's doing, and it couldn't be more obvious.

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by rightchea on Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:54 pm

That a bunch of bull. There are way better players out there than Turner or Thomas. The issue really is that Miami can't afford no other good player or players just don't want to come to Miami.

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by JMP on Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:19 pm

With all the cap space the Phins have, it should have been VERY easy to find better linemen than Thomas and Turner.   FAIL.

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by Umix10 on Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:24 pm

total fail doesn't do the situation justice.  It's more like Nuclear Fallout.  I applaud Gase for imploding this team from the inside. I think rock bottom is the way to go.

this roster was poorly put together but it didn't start with Tannebaum (and that was so hard for me to say) its just getting compounded.  

Last week I mentioned that by the trade deadline i thought that Jones and Landry should go.  Jones is in his prime and Landry although very good, is a hit away from OBJ II.  this kid cant just shut up and play ball. But these two can bring in quality picks and/or multiple potential players.  Jones is set to be a free agent so we are going to lose him anyway. I don't see the point of keeping a pro bowl safety on 32nd ranked defense on a contract year.  Landry is about to join OBJ in the temper tantrum room.  I would get younger and smarter starting with these two.

PS if we get rid of Landry then we would allow Tannehill to get rid of the Landry goggles helmet that he's been wearing the last 3 years and force his dumb ass to actually look at the rest of the field. that's if he's not part of the purge

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by JMP on Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:40 pm

I'd be on board with trading Landry ONLY IF Parker had shown that he could be a true #1 alpha receiver and IF Carroo had given any indication that he's more than a benchwarmer. Unfortunately, Parker looks below average and Carroo can't even get on the field. The Phins have almost no choice but to keep Landry and overpay him on a long-term deal. You get rid of Landry, and there's nothing at WR. As overrated as he is, he's still the only legit receiver on the team.

As for Jones - no way the Phins will re-sign him, so yeah, trade away. I doubt we'd get much for him - I'm thinking a 3rd or 4th - but it'll be better than nothing.

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by DolFan 316 on Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:05 pm

I knew there was a reason I liked this Umix guy Very Happy cheers

Trading Jones makes perfect sense, which is why the Fins will never even consider it for a second.

On the other hand, trade Landry and even Gase knows he won't be able to spin Tannehill's ineptitude any more. Landry's apparently the only person standing between mere badness and 'worst QB in the league by a mile" territory for him.

BTW I've said for years this scouting staff has no ability whatsoever to evaluate O-line talent beyond the no-brainer first rounders, and this proves it once and for all. They all need to be given the boot even more than Tannenbaum.

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by Umix10 on Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:25 pm

I see your point JMP.  But if you're fine with Jones then wouldn't Landry be the same.  I see what your saying about no one behind him but we don't really have anything behind Jones either.

Landry has had a tremendous amount of catches due to the lack of skills by Tannehill and basically making him overrated.  To me if he's on any other team he is mediocre.  We should capitalize on that and start hoarding picks.  Landry and Jones are the only two that get us the meat and potatoes draft picks or replacement players.

PS Jones has been healthy all season, Yet couple weeks before the trade deadline he stops practicing. wouldn't it make a lot of sense to keep him limited in practice while you shop him around?

MY BOLD PREDICTION. Jones doesn't play against the steelers and He'll be gone by Wednesday

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by DolFan 316 on Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:39 pm

Umix10 wrote:MY BOLD PREDICTION.  Jones doesn't play against the steelers and He'll be gone by Wednesday

Followed by Gase losing the team completely to the point where there's an open mutiny and 1-15 becomes a stone cold lock? I'm strangely comfortable with it Twisted Evil

Not to mention Jones deserves better. Then again, considering all his offseason whining maybe not scratch

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by JMP on Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:23 pm

Umix10 wrote:if you're fine with Jones then wouldn't Landry be the same. I see what your saying about no one behind him but we don't really have anything behind Jones either.

Landry is young and just entering his prime, while Jones is getting close to 30. You're right that we don't have any depth at safety, but that's been the case forever on this team. I just don't see the logic in paying an aging safety...paying a young WR makes more sense.

Umix10 wrote:Landry has had a tremendous amount of catches due to the lack of skills by Tannehill and basically making him overrated. To me if he's on any other team he is mediocre.

Landry is overrated, but I totally disagree that he'd be mediocre on another team. I think he'd be a star in an offense that uses him the right way. Even though he's not the fastest guy, I'd line him up outside where he has more room to work. The Dolphins are wasting him by using him only in the slot, where he has to work through traffic and constantly try to make something out of nothing. He's the best young talent the Dolphins have had in ages, at any position, and IMO it would be foolish to let him go.



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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by Umix10 on Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:40 pm

JMP wrote:Landry is overrated, but I totally disagree that he'd be mediocre on another team.  I think he'd be a star in an offense that uses him the right way.
 

I can agree to disagree. This offense totally features Landry. I would be hard pressed to see what the right way would look like because he catches a hell of a lot of balls or done everything and anything on offense. On the off chance that he went to a team that had a great QB with a solid supporting cast I can agree that he could be a star.

JMP wrote:and IMO it would be foolish to let him go.

I think it boils down to the situation. We dont have a QB, we don't have an OL, we dont have a RB, we need a TE. IMHO this team will need a rebuild. hanging on to players is not the way to go right now. I would certainly keep him long term if we were on the cusp but we are talking about 3-4 years from now to see any hope of playing in a playoff game. that would push him past his prime. I say get rid of him now and get something out of it. Ideally a younger player that will mature as the new team peaks. kinda like taking the medicine at the right time to maximize the effectiveness.



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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by JMP on Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:01 am

Umix10 wrote:I can agree to disagree. This offense totally features Landry. I would be hard pressed to see what the right way would look like because he catches a hell of a lot of balls or done everything and anything on offense. On the off chance that he went to a team that had a great QB with a solid supporting cast I can agree that he could be a star.

Sure the offense features Landry...but mostly on passes within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage and many times at or behind the line. That's what I mean when I say he's not being used right. Put him on the outside and let him get in space where his yards after catch ability can be better utilized. He's a solid route runner and he has great hands. Making him do grunt work all game every game greatly limits his effectiveness.

Umix10 wrote:I think it boils down to the situation. We dont have a QB, we don't have an OL, we dont have a RB, we need a TE. IMHO this team will need a rebuild. hanging on to players is not the way to go right now. I would certainly keep him long term if we were on the cusp but we are talking about 3-4 years from now to see any hope of playing in a playoff game. that would push him past his prime. I say get rid of him now and get something out of it. Ideally a younger player that will mature as the new team peaks. kinda like taking the medicine at the right time to maximize the effectiveness.

Realistically the team needs to upgrade every single position. A major rebuild is needed for sure. But why get rid of the one good young player you have? I still believe letting Lamar Miller walk was a huge mistake. Why create another hole when you don't have to? Landry can be a building block.

But really, none of this matters because Gase will (unfortunately) be back next season and there's no way he's trading his best receiver. I doubt Jones gets traded either, but that one wouldn't surprise me.

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by white1 on Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:01 am

Wake is another prime candidate. Pass rushers league wide are difficult to find, and we are under utilizing him to an almost criminal extent.

There must be a team that needs a pass rusher and is setting their sights on the playoffs. Get a pick for him right now.

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by JMP on Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:08 am

white1 wrote:Wake is another prime candidate.  Pass rushers league wide are difficult to find, and we are under utilizing him to an almost criminal extent.

There must be a team that needs a pass rusher and is setting their sights on the playoffs.  Get a pick for him right now.

Not sure it's even worth it...what are you going to get?  Maybe a 6th or 7th?  No one's giving up a premium pick for Wake at this stage.  He looks like he's running on empty this season.

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by scotgif on Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:47 am

I seem to recall that many of us advocated trading Wake at least two, maybe three years ago, when he was still in his prime and his market value was at it's all time high. But, of course, we just had to hang on to him then , because we were just so close to... what I don't know. Now, perhaps we get a 5th, at best for him.

The smart organizations, like Pittsburgh and the pats know when to get rid of players to maximize their worth. Very rarely do you see them hold on to a productive vet too long, before they just lose him for nothing, or keep years after his best days are behind him.
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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by JMP on Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:30 pm

scotgif wrote:I seem to recall that many of us advocated trading Wake at least two, maybe three years ago, when he was still in his prime and his market value was at it's all time high. But, of course, we just had to hang on to him then , because we were just so close to... what I don't know. Now, perhaps we get a 5th, at best for him.

The smart organizations, like Pittsburgh and the pats know when to get rid of players to maximize their worth. Very rarely do you see them hold on to a productive vet too long, before they just lose him for nothing, or keep years after his best days are behind him.

Yep, absolutely.

2-3 years ago we could have gotten a high pick for Wake...2nd or 3rd would be my guess.  But that ship has sailed.

Of course, we need a GM that knows what to do with the picks, but that's another story...

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by white1 on Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:32 pm

On the original topic of this thread, the Ravens claimed Turner on waivers.

Any guesses on who is correct that he's worth investment? Us or Baltimore?

Who do you think is a better run, better led organization?

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by JMP on Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:45 pm

white1 wrote:On the original topic of this thread, the Ravens claimed Turner on waivers.

Any guesses on who is correct that he's worth investment? Us or Baltimore?

Who do you think is a better run, better led organization?


The thing with Turner is, I still believe he has tools that you can develop.  I've always said that his natural position is probably LT, but the Phins never played him there at all - not even in practice - till last week's game.  The Dolphins have moved him around since day one - he's practiced and played games at RT, RG and LG.  I think the Ravens need to decide where he fits best (LT or RT, I'd say), and then keep him there.  That's step one.  Step two is teach and develop him - something the inept Dolphin coaches couldn't do.

Let's face it - chances are, he fails in Baltimore and is out of the league in a year.  But, he does at least have ability that is worth looking into.  A competent coaching staff could do wonders for him, as IMHO poor technique is his biggest problem.  I guess we'll see.

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by Degarmo on Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:13 pm

We haven't had a good offensive line coach in Miami in forever, so getting these "project" guys doesn't really look intelligent, but no one ever said we had intelligent and cogent communication between the front office and coaching.
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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by HalCHorn on Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:45 pm

Degarmo wrote:We haven't had a good offensive line coach in Miami in forever, so getting these "project" guys doesn't really look intelligent, but no one ever said we had intelligent and cogent communication between the front office and coaching.

I'd say the last O-line coach to really do a good job was Paul Boudreau. 16 years ago :-(

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by Degarmo on Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:39 pm

HalCHorn wrote:
Degarmo wrote:We haven't had a good offensive line coach in Miami in forever, so getting these "project" guys doesn't really look intelligent, but no one ever said we had intelligent and cogent communication between the front office and coaching.

I'd say the last O-line coach to really do a good job was Paul Boudreau.  16 years ago :-(

I'd agree with that, and man, 16 friggin years . . . sheesh.
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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by DolFan 316 on Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:38 pm

The Ravens have now cut Turner as well. So much for all that talk about how a real team would properly develop him Laughing Clearly even in his brief evaluation the Ravens didn't like what they saw.

http://www.profootballrumors.com/2016/10/ravens-waive-billy-turner

It's mind-blowing, even by this team's standards, that two O-linemen who were deemed worthy of being starters when preseason began are now out of football probably for good before the season's halfway point.

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by JEGnj on Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:25 pm

To me this is a dead subject but you develop in HS and college. You step it up to the next level and become elite in the NFL. Watching the game and replays last week it was like they took one of us and gave us a jersey and said go out and play. He looked nothing like an NFL caliber player out there. Good riddance and shame on the coaching staff for letting this happen.
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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by JMP on Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:13 pm

JEGnj wrote:To me this is a dead subject but you develop in HS and college. You step it up to the next level and become elite in the NFL. Watching the game and replays last week it was like they took one of us and gave us a jersey and said go out and play. He looked nothing like an NFL caliber player out there. Good riddance and shame on the coaching staff for letting this happen.

Almost every player on this team plays like they're on their own, just doing their own thing. The coaches have done a terrible job of getting these guys to learn the scheme and know what they're supposed to do. On every play, on offense and defense, there are multiple players doing the wrong thing and screwing up. That's coaching...none of the players know what they're supposed to do. Seems to me that this coaching staff is getting money for nothing. Yeah, most of our players suck, but the coaches aren't helping them at all.

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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by white1 on Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:34 pm

Well I feel better in one respect, we cut a guy that's not NFL caliber and it does not look like we dumped anyone worth anything.

So there's that at least.


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Re: Billy Turner to be Released

Post by rightchea on Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:39 pm

Well since he was picked up by the Ravens he must have meant something

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