Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

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Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by JMP on Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:59 pm

The Dolphins notched their 3rd consecutive win today, beating the Jets in a 27-23 victory in Miami today. Despite being a close game that featured 5 lead changes, this was actually a very boring, sloppy game. But boring is OK when it ends in a win.

This game was won on special teams, with a brilliant 96-yard kick return for a TD by rookie Kenyan Drake late in the 4th. The game was almost lost on special teams on the previous series, with punter Matt Darr muffing a perfect snap that gave the Jets the ball inside the Miami 20 and allowed them to score the go-ahead TD. Without that Drake TD, this is a game the Phins probably lose.

And the reason the Phins almost lost is in large part due to an ultra-conservative offense. The Dolphins had trouble running the ball most of the game, despite a beautiful 20-yard TD by Jay Ajayi and a tough 23-yard run by Damien Williams, both coming in the first half. Ajayi was able to seal the victory with some great running on the game’s final series, but prior to that he was mostly ineffective, getting stopped in the backfield numerous times. The Jets’ pass defense had been brutal all year, but Adam Gase refused to challenge them. Ryan Tannehill spent the day throwing short, safe passes and never testing the struggling Jets’ DBs, including Darelle Revis. I really don’t understand why the Phins were scared to attack the Jets secondary, but that was clearly the case. Tannehill was mostly efficient, although he did throw a near INT in the red zone that should have been a pick 6. I don’t know if Gase doesn’t trust Tannehill or if he was just scared of the Jets, but whatever the case, I hated the offensive gameplan today. The ultra-conservative gameplan was highlighted by the Phins letting the clock run out in the first half, despite having over 20 seconds left and 2 timeouts, and needing just 20 or so yards for a FG attempt. I really don’t like that type of “coaching scared” mentality, but fortunately it didn’t come back to bite the Phins.

The defense was shaky throughout, but made some big plays when they needed to. It was a case of “bend but don’t break”, as the Jets had numerous red zone opportunities and only managed two TDs. The Phins should send a thank you note to the Jets for abandoning the run in the second half, despite the fact that the Phins could not stop Matt Forte in the first half. A real head-scratching move by the Jets, but I’ll take it. Overall, the D got decent pressure, got two INTs and mostly kept the Jets out of the endzone, so I can’t complain too much – but overall it wasn’t a great effort by the D.

It is worth noting that this was yet another sloppy, undisciplined effort by the Phins, with 8 penalties for 86 yards, several of which kept Jets’ drives alive. This is an area Gase seems unable to fix, but if the Phins want to go anywhere this season, it must be addressed.

Overall, I’m happy with the victory and it’s great to see the Phins get to .500. Despite the winning streak, I am still not a believer in this team – the defense is full of holes and the offensive passing game is very lackluster. Still, the Phins are doing much better than I expected, and the fact that they have at least some playoff hopes after 9 weeks is encouraging. A very tough matchup in San Diego awaits next week, and we’ll learn a lot more about the Phins in that one.

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by DolFan 316 on Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:21 pm

It's amazing how quickly these come up after a win scratch Razz

In all honesty (and I never thought I'd be saying this) if you had Ajayi at RB and Tannehill at QB which one would you ride with? I'd be going with Ajayi all day every day. This team at least has an identity now. Seems to me the more Tanny throws, the less the chances of a victory.

And no snide remarks outta you, Degarmo Razz

As far as the penalties, all I know is this team got curbstomped by the Jets and Bills last season and this season they're 2-0 against them. I also heard the Jets had a few costly penalties of their own. So far it's not been a problem, so I'm not going to worry about it. If this team didn't commit a single penalty against the Pats would they beat them? I think not (although the Pats have been losing in Miami lately, hmmm). Maybe a couple extra fouls a game is giving them that edge we've all been wanting for what seems like over a decade. It worked for the Raiders in the 70s, right? Smile

It's the Jets. Games against them are always going to be ugly. I think it's one of the laws of the universe. An ugly win against this team sure as hell beats a pretty loss. The Jets might have more "how the HELL did they win?!" games against the Fins than any other two teams combined, it sure seems that way.

BTW I officially have a man crush on Drake now.

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by Degarmo on Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:47 pm

Just win, baby. I'll catch the 6 1/2 minutes of interesting play later on.
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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by JMP on Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:06 pm

For the record, Fitzpatrick missed at least two easy passes that would have been TDs. No need to play "what ifs", but I point this out to show that the Phins really didn't play great today. They got the W, and that's what matters - but I don't think Rivers is going to miss open receivers next week the way Fitz did today...

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by DolFan 316 on Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:29 pm

It seems to me the vast majority of NFL games come down to which team screws up the least. Everybody except the Pats seems thoroughly mediocre at best.

And besides, this team has given away so many wins to the Jets in the past it's only right that they steal one every now and then Twisted Evil

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by white1 on Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:24 am

I will start by saying simply this. I am proud of this team. A stark departure from seasons past.

It's easy to forget how quickly previous coaches have abandoned the run. Seeing Ajayi get caught behind the line three times during our opening drive would have resulted in a quick abandonment of the running game, and back to the pass-happy attack Philbin's teams sported. Not the case yesterday. Gase stubbornly kept at it, and the result was a big W over a division rival playing for their lives. At 3-6 the Jets are now all but dead. Realize this, the Jets came in with the #1 defense against the run, averaging only 74 rushing yards against. We doubled that average, and Ajayi himself went over 100 yards. Impressive effort. THIS is what a "strength" is. No matter the opponent, a strength is something you can rely on even when you are game planned against to take that component away.

The biggest accomplishment by our defense was the two turnovers, and good pressure on Fitzpatrick throughout the day. I will say some of those passes he missed were the result of the hits, pressure and sacks he was taking. I particularly liked the sack where Suh grabbed him by the shoulders and simply tossed him down like a rag doll. We almost knocked yet another starting QB out of the game. This is turning into quite a trend for us. Another key component of this victory was limiting the damage done by Brandon Marshall. He caught a short pass early and rumbled for 8 yards, reminding me how big and physical he is as a WR. He's virtually a TE size receiver. I thought it was going to be a very long day for our secondary. Instead, he was quiet - less than 100 yards receiving and no back breaking plays to speak of.

Jordan Phillips with an interception?!?! I guess that's why sometimes you drop linemen into the zone. Fitzpatrick clearly did not see him, and the ball came right to him.

Penalties are going to kill this league if drastic measures are not taken to completely change their impact on the game. When penalties are more important to the outcome of a game than the big plays made by superstars, and emerging superstars, you are well on your way to destroying the sport. We had a punt return for a TD nullified by some ghost call that no one could see. There appeared that there could have been something done wrong, but it was behind the play Grant was already past that point. The 15 yard unsporstmanlike penalties simply must stop. Total bullshit. The horse collar rule is a travesty. We all know the way it used to be done, with players hanging off the back of the shoulders and bringing down their full body weight. A simple tug to pull someone off balance should not result in a 15 yard penalty. JMP says a lack of discipline, and that used to be the case. In today's NFL, it's been well documented that some crews are simply flag-happy. No amount of discipline is going to change them. They see penalties where the rest of us see what looks like clean play. Too ticky-tacky.

If the NFL is going to try and wish away these poor ratings, they are going to kill the golden goose. In short, Mark Cuban was right. Here's what I would do to fix the league:
1. Get rid of the new-age rules, like the 25 yard start for offense, and the convoluted college-like overtime rules. Return to the tradition of the sport.
2. Stop playing games on Thursday nights. So many reasons from player health due to limited recovery time, to the saturation of the airwaves with sub-par matchups. The more primetime slots you have, the more often you are going to get those horrible, unwatchable games that can't be avoided.
3. Stop playing games in London. If you are going to expand, put a team in Toronto or Vancouver. Games at 9:30am ET are only angering your loyal fan base, in the hopes you will somehow cultivate fans overseas. A fool's errand.
4. Improve your officials and referees. I don't know how to do this, but it has to be done. Part of it has to be the complexity of the rules book. It should be pared way down. When fans, officials and sports announcers are arguing over what constitutes a catch, you have screwed up completely and should consider starting over.
5. In the next CBA, return to more padded practices. There is no evidence the current practice rules mandated in the CBA have made the league any healthier. But it certainly has made the play sloppier. The product on the field trumps all else. Don't let it suffer.
6. This goes hand in hand with penalties, but let the players celebrate. Fans want to see their favorite players show emotion after a big play. Stop trying to eliminate this personality, it goes against what should be in the interest of the league - showcasing the superstars. Let them spin the ball, let them dunk over the goal post, let them throw the ball into the stands. I miss the old highlights of some of the celebrations.

In short, the NFL is turning into an always-on, lackluster, flag-filled, head scratching sloppy contest held between faceless athletes and lorded over by spoiled billionaires. They are going to kill the golden goose, and the ratings demonstrate they are well on their way to doing it.


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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by JMP on Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:39 am

Marshall would have had a monster game if Maxwell wasn't holding/interfering with him constantly, and if Fitz didn't miss him several times when he was wide open. But, the end results were certainly good.

I am very pleasantly surprised by the play of Jones and Gray at TE. They are turning what was arguably the weakest position on the team into a strength.

As far as the penalties, the Phins rack up unsportsmanlike penalties and personal fouls every week - that is a lack of discipline. And Maxwell grabbing Marshall's arm with two hands, several times? That too is a lack of discipline, and a lack of technique. We kept one Jets scoring drive alive yesterday with a stupid penalty, and you can bet that against better teams those penalties will bite us in the ass.

There are too many flags - but much of that is on the players from what I can see. Look at all the 15-yard penalties in our game yesterday - mostly on the Jets. Those were legit flags. I don't see the refs doing anything differently than they have in past years.

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by rightchea on Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:21 am

The fins penalties were crucial to a point but at the same time I didn't see nothing wrong with the penalties that happened. It going to happen in the game and it is what it is. Miami gave up a lot of yards when they passed the ball and Miami needs to fix that. I don't think Gase wanted to send to many people on the blitz for that reason. Miami secondary is not great at all but they do just enough for Miami to win.

The biggest issue once again is all the invisible players on the offensive side. I understand that Stills couldn't play cause he was just to sick to play but I talking about Parker and Carroo. Both of these guys were suppose to be big time players and they were no where to be seen for most of the game. Miami can't just rely on Landry and Still all game . Thank God that Jones and Gray were doing their thing catching and blocking.

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by DolFan 316 on Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:32 am

WOW!!! Where to even begin???

white1 wrote:I will start by saying simply this.  I am proud of this team.  A stark departure from seasons past.

It's easy to forget how quickly previous coaches have abandoned the run.  Seeing Ajayi get caught behind the line three times during our opening drive would have resulted in a quick abandonment of the running game, and back to the pass-happy attack Philbin's teams sported.  Not the case yesterday.  Gase stubbornly kept at it, and the result was a big W over a division rival playing for their lives.  At 3-6 the Jets are now all but dead.  Realize this, the Jets came in with the #1 defense against the run, averaging only 74 rushing yards against.  We doubled that average, and Ajayi himself went over 100 yards.  Impressive effort.  THIS is what a "strength" is.  No matter the opponent, a strength is something you can rely on even when you are game planned against to take that component away.

IMO this is the game that made it official--the Fins are no longer a finesse team. Somewhere right now Lamar Miller is crying on the inside. Running early to wear down the D late, what a novel concept! At least to this team.

Jordan Phillips with an interception?!?! I guess that's why sometimes you drop linemen into the zone.  Fitzpatrick clearly did not see him, and the ball came right to him.

Firstb thing that popped into my mind when I heard about that was Randy Starks Smile  

Penalties are going to kill this league if drastic measures are not taken to completely change their impact on the game.  When penalties are more important to the outcome of a game than the big plays made by superstars, and emerging superstars, you are well on your way to destroying the sport.  We had a punt return for a TD nullified by some ghost call that no one could see.  There appeared that there could have been something done wrong, but it was behind the play Grant was already past that point.  The 15 yard unsporstmanlike penalties simply must stop.  Total bullshit.  The horse collar rule is a travesty.  We all know the way it used to be done, with players hanging off the back of the shoulders and bringing down their full body weight.  A simple tug to pull someone off balance should not result in a 15 yard penalty.  JMP says a lack of discipline, and that used to be the case.  In today's NFL, it's been well documented that some crews are simply flag-happy.  No amount of discipline is going to change them.  They see penalties where the rest of us see what looks like clean play.  Too ticky-tacky.

When I watched the games, it used to annoy the hell out of me that penalties on kick/punt return scores were never--and I mean NEVER--replayed. Viewers were always just expected to take the officials' word for it. Which as many are finding out now, is a dubious proposition at best.  

If the NFL is going to try and wish away these poor ratings, they are going to kill the golden goose.  In short, Mark Cuban was right.  Here's what I would do to fix the league:
1.  Get rid of the new-age rules, like the 25 yard start for offense, and the convoluted college-like overtime rules.  Return to the tradition of the sport.

White1, I now officially have a man crush on you Very Happy cheers

2.  Stop playing games on Thursday nights.  So many reasons from player health due to limited recovery time, to the saturation of the airwaves with sub-par matchups.  The more primetime slots you have, the more often you are going to get those horrible, unwatchable games that can't be avoided.

Player safety??? What's that??? Rolling Eyes  

3.  Stop playing games in London.  If you are going to expand, put a team in Toronto or Vancouver.  Games at 9:30am ET are only angering your loyal fan base, in the hopes you will somehow cultivate fans overseas.  A fool's errand.

Can a man crush be elevated to something more if the people involved aren't gay? scratch Laughing
 
4.  Improve your officials and referees.  I don't know how to do this, but it has to be done.  Part of it has to be the complexity of the rules book.  It should be pared way down.  When fans, officials and sports announcers are arguing over what constitutes a catch, you have screwed up completely and should consider starting over.

Three words: Full. Time. Officials.
 
5.  In the next CBA, return to more padded practices.  There is no evidence the current practice rules mandated in the CBA have made the league any healthier.  But it certainly has made the play sloppier.  The product on the field trumps all else.  Don't let it suffer.

Chalk that up to the spoiled brat millenial players. The sad part is, I really think most of them are too dense to even realize that fewer practices--what THEY screamed for--is actually responsible for MORE of them being injured than ever!

In short, the NFL is turning into an always-on, lackluster, flag-filled, head scratching sloppy contest held between faceless athletes and lorded over by spoiled billionaires.  They are going to kill the golden goose, and the ratings demonstrate they are well on their way to doing it.

Literally NO individual or institution is too big to fail. A basic grasp of Human History 101 will tell you that.

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by DolFan 316 on Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:35 am

JMP wrote:As far as the penalties, the Phins rack up unsportsmanlike penalties and personal fouls every week - that is a lack of discipline.  And Maxwell grabbing Marshall's arm with two hands, several times?  That too is a lack of discipline, and a lack of technique.  We kept one Jets scoring drive alive yesterday with a stupid penalty, and you can bet that against better teams those penalties will bite us in the ass.

Aside from the Pats, where all all these "better teams" you speak of? I'm not saying the Fins will win out, but right now there's not any other team remaining you can say is clearly superior to them.

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by JMP on Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:08 am

DolFan 316 wrote:
JMP wrote:As far as the penalties, the Phins rack up unsportsmanlike penalties and personal fouls every week - that is a lack of discipline.  And Maxwell grabbing Marshall's arm with two hands, several times?  That too is a lack of discipline, and a lack of technique.  We kept one Jets scoring drive alive yesterday with a stupid penalty, and you can bet that against better teams those penalties will bite us in the ass.

Aside from the Pats, where all all these "better teams" you speak of? I'm not saying the Fins will win out, but right now there's not any other team remaining you can say is clearly superior to them.

What I mean is, there are teams with better offenses than the Jets.  On our schedule, the Chargers, Cards and Pats - and maybe the Ravens - have better offenses than the Jets.  We make a million penalties that extend opponent drives against those teams, and we'll lose.

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by DolFan 316 on Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:35 am

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2674421-monday-morning-digest-big-bens-burden-rams-must-go-goff-raiders-on-a-roll/page/7

What It Means

This is simple, Dolphins:

RUN THE FOOTBALL.

You have a great run-blocking offensive line that isn't nearly as good at pass blocking and one of the best young running backs in the NFL. Run it with Ajayi. Run it with Damien Williams (who added a 23-yard rush) as a change-up.

Mix in some play action now and then, but only throw the ball on first down with the lead if nine defenders are in the box and there's a rookie cornerback playing 15 yards off Jarvis Landry. Don't abandon the run, even after a few stuffs, because you have spent five years proving that you cannot win games by passing.

What Happens Next

If history is any guide, the Dolphins will abandon the run, starting next week against the Chargers. But perhaps Gase and Ajayi are the ones who finally end the cycle.

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by JMP on Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:59 am

rightchea wrote:The biggest issue once again is all the invisible players on the offensive side. I understand that Stills couldn't play cause he was just to sick to play but I talking about Parker and Carroo. Both of these guys were suppose to be big time players and they were no where to be seen for most of the game. Miami can't just rely on Landry and Still all game . Thank God that Jones and Gray were doing their thing catching and blocking.  

Exactly.  Fortunately we've been running the ball very well lately, but I just don't trust Tannehill or the receivers if we play an opponent that takes away the run.  It's basically Landry and nothing else at WR, and as much as I like Gray and Jones I wouldn't exactly call them go-to receivers just yet.

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by rightchea on Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:16 am

white1 wrote: 
3.  Stop playing games in London.  If you are going to expand, put a team in Toronto or Vancouver.  Games at 9:30am ET are only angering your loyal fan base, in the hopes you will somehow cultivate fans overseas.  A fool's errand.  

NFL is getting so much heat for the US that they have to play aboard so that they can get the NFL better known world wide. This CTE stuff is big and for the fact that Everyone is totally going in about it they have to do what they got to do.

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by Umix10 on Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:03 pm

IMHO I think Maxwell did his damage to Marshall off the field. All the trash talking and back and forth got to Marshall. Maxwell didn't give a crap cuz he's been a constant target in the media since he got here

I think that messing with Marshall before the game and being physical with him took him out a little.

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by finskev on Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:16 pm

I 'm just happy the defense stopped them after the KO Return and Suh threw Fitz around like a Rag doll and than Ajayi just ran the Clock out, Shit like that hasn't happen for this team lately.

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by Degarmo on Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:52 pm

White summed up most of my "What's wrong with the NFL thoughts." There is such a thing as hitting shape, football conditioning. If your body is not ready to be hit, many injuries will come.
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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by JMP on Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:10 pm

Umix10 wrote:IMHO I think Maxwell did his damage to Marshall off the field.  All the trash talking and back and forth got to Marshall.  Maxwell didn't give a crap cuz he's been a constant target in the media since he got here

I think that messing with Marshall before the game and being physical with him took him out a little.

It looked to me like Marshall was open all day, and nearly every time I saw Maxwell he was grabbing Marshall.  I don't think Maxwell won that battle at all; in fact I think Marshall dominated him.  I think Marshall's lack of production was due to a combination of Fitz's inaccuracy and the Miami pass rush.

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by Umix10 on Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:04 pm

I saw the same thing JMP. But i also saw him talkin to Maxwell the whole time. Marshall is a beast. But clearly he is an emotional dude. He let's his emotions get the best of him. I don't care if Maxwell let him get open or not. Marshall clearly wasn't on his game.

Say what you want about Fitz or the Pass Rush, Marshall wasn't all there.

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by rightchea on Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:00 pm

He wasn't and it is easy to get to Marshall as we all can see.

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by JMP on Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:34 pm

Umix10 wrote:I saw the same thing JMP. But i also saw him talkin to Maxwell the whole time.  Marshall is a beast.  But clearly he is an emotional dude. He let's his emotions get the best of him.  I don't care if Maxwell let him get open or not.  Marshall clearly wasn't on his game.  

Say what you want about Fitz or the Pass Rush, Marshall wasn't all there.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Marshall is like that every single game - he loves going at it with cornerbacks. He's always trash talking and looking for flags. That's just who he is, and he is one of the top receivers in the NFL despite that. He was open all game, so I don't think Maxwell was an issue for him at all. I'd say he owned Maxwell - the issue, again, was Fitz and the Dolphin pass rush.

Maxwell will probably lose his job as soon as Culliver is ready, so enough about him! LOL


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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by rightchea on Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:41 am

JMP wrote:
rightchea wrote:The biggest issue once again is all the invisible players on the offensive side. I understand that Stills couldn't play cause he was just to sick to play but I talking about Parker and Carroo. Both of these guys were suppose to be big time players and they were no where to be seen for most of the game. Miami can't just rely on Landry and Still all game . Thank God that Jones and Gray were doing their thing catching and blocking.  

Exactly.  Fortunately we've been running the ball very well lately, but I just don't trust Tannehill or the receivers if we play an opponent that takes away the run.  It's basically Landry and nothing else at WR, and as much as I like Gray and Jones I wouldn't exactly call them go-to receivers just yet.

So what happens when the running game is stopped. I know the Bills aren't going to allow that performance happen again. Tannehill and the other need to step up

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by JMP on Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:38 am

rightchea wrote:
So what happens when the running game is stopped. I know the Bills aren't going to allow that performance happen again. Tannehill and the other need to step up

Yep, that's the big question - can this offense do well without a running game??  They never have before, so it's difficult to imagine that changing.

This Chargers game will be interesting.  I expect the Chargers to score a lot of points, and if they jump out to an early lead, will Gase abandon the running game and have Tannehill start flinging the ball around???

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by DolFan 316 on Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:23 am

I must be getting soft in my non-football watching old age. I've decided not to worry about bad things until they actually happen. Penalties schmenalties. If the Fins can run on the Jets, they can run on anybody IMO. I'm just going to let things play out, including the election, without stressing over what if this or that happens.

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

Post by CarsonChris on Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:41 am

Excellent post by White1. I will add, stand up for the National anthem!

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Re: Game 8 thoughts: Jets vs. Dolphins

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