Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

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Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by mercury22nathan on Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:35 am

Bovada wrote:...an online betting site, has set the Dolphins' over-under at 8 1/2 wins for this upcoming season...

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/dolphins-blog/sfl-vegas-sets-the-overunder-line-for-dolphins-at-85-wins-in-2015-20150603-story.html

so Vegas sees the Phins staying right where they've been for the last couple years.


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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by white1 on Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:38 am

Makes sense to me.

New England back just as strong as ever, Buffalo and the Jets both improved - the AFC East will be tough, and likely tough enough to offset the roster improvements we did make this offseason.


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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by JMP on Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:04 am

Until proven otherwise, I think it's very fair to predict 8-9 wins for this team. It's a mostly unproven roster with a poor head coach and very little locker-room leadership, and the team has failed to get above .500 in 8 of the last 9 seasons. Add in a tough division and a tough overall schedule, and I can absolutely understand Vegas and the national media not drinking the Miami Dolphins kool-aid. Hell, I'm a fan, and I'm not ready to predict a winning season.

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by Birdmond on Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:05 am

If the Brady suspension is upheld I'd jump all over the under on NE. Garapolo threw 5 picks yesterday.

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by Degarmo on Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:08 pm

Vegas also understands entirely that the Dolphins will lose 2-4 games based on terrible game-day coaching as well, just like last season.
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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by Birdmond on Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:32 pm

Word out of NE is Garapolo sucks. I'm liking that under bet more every day on the Patsies.

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by JMP on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:25 am

I think Garoppolo is going to be a great NFL QB. He's surrounded with weapons in New England, and he's learning from the best. Hope I'm wrong, but unfortunately I think he's a future star.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the one OTA practice where he threw a bunch of INTs...Brady also threw a bunch that same day.

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by DolFan 316 on Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:59 pm

The Fins have improved??? Since when??? Neutral

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by Birdmond on Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:35 am

Well the Pats signed Matt Flynn. They can deny it all they want but they did it because Garapolo is going to struggle and they're looking at a 1-5 start if the suspension is upheld.

316 I think Miami has improved on both sides of the ball. I think Vegas is accurate because Albert won't contribute and your boy Philbin is a below average NFL head coach.

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by DolFan 316 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:55 pm

I picked up my annual Lindy's NFL preview mag the other day and they didn't have anything good to say about the Fins at all, to the point where I was seriously wondering if Jmp had written their team preview.

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by JMP on Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:35 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:I picked up my annual Lindy's NFL preview mag the other day and they didn't have anything good to say about the Fins at all, to the point where I was seriously wondering if Jmp had written their team preview.

Ouch! LOL

Plenty of positives on the Phins...Suh, Wake, Landry, Miller, I'll even throw in Tannehill for the hell of it. But the question marks and uncertainties far outweigh the positives IMO. Plus, it's difficult to get excited about anything when Philbin is the head coach.

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by white1 on Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:24 am

Our coaching staff is a huge downer in general. From the lifeless Philbin to the underachieving Coyle.

Easily worse coaching staff in the AFC East. I would take Rex Ryan and the staff he's assembled, or that of Todd Bowles over Philbin in a heartbeat.

Tannenbaum has done a nice job gathering talent this offseason, hopefully this is the last year we suffer under Philbin. I'm a firm believer that with a better coach and one more offseason of acquiring talent we can make some noise. Just don't see much potential in 2015 - hopefully I am pleasantly surprised.


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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by JMP on Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:33 am

white1 wrote:Our coaching staff is a huge downer in general.  From the lifeless Philbin to the underachieving Coyle.  

Easily worse coaching staff in the AFC East.  I would take Rex Ryan and the staff he's assembled, or that of Todd Bowles over Philbin in a heartbeat.  

Tannenbaum has done a nice job gathering talent this offseason, hopefully this is the last year we suffer under Philbin.  I'm a firm believer that with a better coach and one more offseason of acquiring talent we can make some noise.  Just don't see much potential in 2015 - hopefully I am pleasantly surprised.


The Jets have really put together a stellar coaching staff. QB needs aside, they are putting together a really strong team. And Rex Ryan with that defense in Buffalo? Damn...and they're stacked with playmakers on offense (again, putting QB needs aside...) This division is crazy-strong right now.

As for the Phins, I'm expecting more of the same this season...8-8 sounds about right to me, given the state of the OL, LB and secondary, and poor coaching (not to mention a lot of new pieces on offense). But I am worried about what will happen to this roster in 2016, given the cap situation. It's not unthinkable that we lose Vernon in free agency, and have to cut Wake and Grimes for cap reasons. If those three things happen, our defense is completely screwed. We haven't drafted well enough at DE or CB to make up for those losses. But, we'll see. If Tannenabaum can clean house and bring in a strong GM and coaching staff, that will be a huge boost.

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by scotgif on Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:41 am

JMP wrote:

As for the Phins, I'm expecting more of the same this season...8-8 sounds about right to me, given the state of the OL, LB and secondary, and poor coaching (not to mention a lot of new pieces on offense).  But I am worried about what will happen to this roster in 2016, given the cap situation.  It's not unthinkable that we lose Vernon in free agency, and have to cut Wake and Grimes for cap reasons.  If those three things happen, our defense is completely screwed.  We haven't drafted well enough at DE or CB to make up for those losses.  But, we'll see.  If Tannenabaum can clean house and bring in a strong GM and coaching staff, that will be a huge boost.

It is a sad state of affairs when we as fans are already looking to next year to "clean house" and bring in a new coaching staff and GM. We haven't even played one pre-season game yet. And we are already looking to blow the whole thing up. Shees.

Now, don't get me wrong, it will most likely need to happen that way. it is just the hand we are dealt.
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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by JMP on Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:38 am

scotgif wrote:It is a sad state of affairs when we as fans are already looking to next year to "clean house" and bring in a new coaching staff and GM. We haven't even played one pre-season game yet. And we are already looking to blow the whole thing up. Shees.

Now, don't get me wrong, it will most likely need to happen that way. it is just the hand we are dealt.

It is sad, but I don't see the Phins making any progress till they get a new staff...and I include GM in that, because I don't think Hickey has done enough to get this team to the next level. I know most Dolfans love Hickey, but I don't think he's been much better than Fireland overall.

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by Birdmond on Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:36 pm

8-8 to me would indicate the team did improve because the division on paper is much tougher. That being said 10 wins is all I will accept.

I'm not ready to anoint Bowles a quality head coach. I'll need to see it first.

But like everyone else Miami's coaching staff does make me nervous.

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by white1 on Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:54 pm

Bowles looked pretty good as our interim head coach following the firing of Sparano.

I don't think any of us took him seriously, given he was part of the failed Sparano regime in the first place.

In hindsight, he may turn out to have been the better choice than the new head coach we got instead.

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by JMP on Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:51 pm

white1 wrote:Bowles looked pretty good as our interim head coach following the firing of Sparano.  

I don't think any of us took him seriously, given he was part of the failed Sparano regime in the first place.

In hindsight, he may turn out to have been the better choice than the new head coach we got instead.

To me, it's not just Bowles. The Jets have what I believe to be an excellent offensive coordinator in Chan Gailey, and one of the top assistant coaches in the league in Kacy Rodgers. That will help a rookie head coach immensely.

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by mercury22nathan on Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:10 am

maybe its just because this is the time of year that hope springs eternal or perhaps the memory of the sting of the past season's failures has begun to fade, but...

i'm starting to drink the kool-aid (again). i can't help it. call me a sheep, but i am a fan of the Dolphins and i find things more tolerable when i try to hope for the best. okay, so maybe i will curse myself (again) in November for having believed (again), but a Phins fan gotta do what a Phins fan do.

the Dolphins will win the AFC east.

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by JMP on Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:34 am

mercury22nathan wrote:maybe its just because this is the time of year that hope springs eternal or perhaps the memory of the sting of the past season's failures has begun to fade, but...

i'm starting to drink the kool-aid (again).  i can't help it.  call me a sheep, but i am a fan of the Dolphins and i find things more tolerable when i try to hope for the best.  okay, so maybe i will curse myself (again) in November for having believed (again), but a Phins fan gotta do what a Phins fan do.

the Dolphins will win the AFC east.

I refuse to feel even a hint of optimism for this team, and the thought of winning the East is not even a remote possibility in my mind. I've been trampled too many times by the Phins, and the defense mechanism my brain has built is not coming down any time soon! I'll just take the season as it comes...not putting the cart before the horse ever again with this damn team.

And...Joe Philbin.

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by DolFan 316 on Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:18 am

WELL...now that Rexy's the coach at Barfalo they will stop sweeping the Fins since he could never sweep them with the Jets even with teams that reached the AFC title game twice. And that's all I've got Laughing

I know exactly when any shred of a sliver of a hint of an iota of optimism died for Jmp. It was in '13 when the Fins FINALLY seemed to have turned the corner with what seemed like a Franchise Defining Win over the Pats thanks to Michael Thomas having just joined the team and literally being too ignorant to know he wasn't supposed to do crazy stuff like pick off Brady in the end zone. And all they had to do was win ONE of their last two to make the playoffs, and they were facing the lowly Bills and Jets. What could possibly go wrong? I remember this because at that moment in time I was the most optimistic I'd been in years. Jmp and I both boldly and proudly proclaimed the postseason was ours. So of course the Fins went and did Finsy things and I made a vow to myself to never, EVER do anything stupid like feel good about this team again. And Jmp took it even harder than that Shocked

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by white1 on Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:29 am

Yeah. Heartbreaker for sure. Just thinking back on it makes me sad all over again.


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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by Birdmond on Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:50 am

Yeah, at least Miami went after a playmaker in round one so maybe there's a philosophy change. So that's changed my attitude somewhat. It doesn't seem like the same old Dull organization. And yes I also cannot get my hopes up, BUT I'm more curious about this team than any I can remember. I absolutely cannot wait for week one.

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by JMP on Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:54 am

DolFan 316 wrote:I know exactly when any shred of a sliver of a hint of an iota of optimism died for Jmp. It was in '13 when the Fins FINALLY seemed to have turned the corner with what seemed like a Franchise Defining Win over the Pats thanks to Michael Thomas having just joined the team and literally being too ignorant to know he wasn't supposed to do crazy stuff like pick off Brady in the end zone. And all they had to do was win ONE of their last two to make the playoffs, and they were facing the lowly Bills and Jets. What could possibly go wrong? I remember this because at that moment in time I was the most optimistic I'd been in years. Jmp and I both boldly and proudly proclaimed the postseason was ours. So of course the Fins went and did Finsy things and I made a vow to myself to never, EVER do anything stupid like feel good about this team again. And Jmp took it even harder than  that Shocked

Nailed it! Yep, that's it in a nutshell.

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Re: Vegas doesn't recognize Phins' improvement

Post by JMP on Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:21 pm

Birdmond wrote:Yeah, at least Miami went after a playmaker in round one so maybe there's a philosophy change.  So that's changed my attitude somewhat.   It doesn't seem like the same old Dull organization.  And yes I also cannot get my hopes up, BUT I'm more curious about this team than any I can remember.   I absolutely cannot wait for week one.  

I don't know...Fireland drafted some supposed "playmakers" in round one too...Vontae Davis, Ryan Tannehill, Dion Jordan. We'll see.

I'm still seeing more or less the same Fireland M.O. at work...spend a shit-ton of money on the biggest free agent name, draft mostly role players and special teamers, throw a bunch of trash on the OL and hope for the best, ignore the LB position except with late round picks and undrafted FAs.

I think Tannenabum wants to change the culture of the organization, but we're not there yet - and likely won't be until Philbin and his staff, as well as Hickey, are gone and replaced with "Tannenbaum guys".

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