Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

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Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by rightchea on Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:45 pm

Michael Sisemore wrote:For what it’s worth, you probably would at least entertain the possibility of bringing back Terrance Williams, as he’s the better receiver of the two. This is also a position that has some intriguing options in the draft. If the scenario should arise that both guys are on different teams next season, there are some veteran options that could peak some interest. One guy that makes a lot of sense is Kenny Stills, the somewhat maligned receiver from the Dolphins.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2017/1/28/14407700/dallas-cowboys-free-agency-focus-2017-kenny-stills-has-little-bit-of-everything

This might be a problem if Miami allows Stills to walk. Miami might want to focus on Stills first then anyone else at the moment. The loss of Stills is one weapon that Miami can't afford.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by JMP on Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:30 am

If Stills is smart, he'll see what he can get on the open market. I bet he'll get more than the Phins want to pay him. Hopefully the Phins can find a way to keep him, but I have a feeling he's gone.


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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by white1 on Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:37 pm

I question this whole article based on the phrase "Somewhat maligned". That would have been an accurate description after 2015 - not after this season. Gase loves Stills, and he lead the team in touchdown catches.

Sure the Cowboys can get him. But he won't be cheap.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by Umix10 on Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:10 pm

The Cowboys are certainly behind this. They put it out in the media to make the #1 suitor (Miami) to overpay. They are feeling out Miami to see if they can get into the game. I hate this shit.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by rightchea on Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:57 am

To be honest if he wants to play in Miami Stills won't let it go overboard

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by Birdmond on Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:14 am

Stay or walk. I'm good either way but he has to do what's best for him. I think he'll get overpaid by someone.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by JMP on Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:50 am

rightchea wrote:To be honest if he wants to play in Miami Stills won't let it go overboard

I don't think Stills has any loyalty to Miami - why should he? Like most players and agents, he will probably chase the money - and why not? Earn it while you can.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by Birdmond on Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:59 am

JMP wrote:
rightchea wrote:To be honest if he wants to play in Miami Stills won't let it go overboard

I don't think Stills has any loyalty to Miami - why should he? Like most players and agents, he will probably chase the money - and why not? Earn it while you can.

I personally think any player who has loyalty to a team and/or gives a hometown discount is a fool.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by JMP on Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:46 am

Birdmond wrote:
JMP wrote:
rightchea wrote:To be honest if he wants to play in Miami Stills won't let it go overboard

I don't think Stills has any loyalty to Miami - why should he?  Like most players and agents, he will probably chase the money - and why not?  Earn it while you can.

I personally think any player who has loyalty to a team and/or gives a hometown discount is a fool.  

Yeah, it's one thing if the guy has been with a team 10 years or something and is firmly established in the community...I could see that. But Stills has been with the Phins for just 2 seasons, one of which was pretty forgettable. No need for him to show any loyalty to the Phins. They certainly won't show him any loyalty if the $ gets too high.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by white1 on Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:20 am

This is going to show a lot about this front office.

Letting Stills walk entails more than a small measure of risk.

You just can't project how another receiver will perform in our scheme, with our quarterback, and all the other players on the offense. We've seen time and again the free agent receivers brought in only to disappoint (Wallace, Marshall, Naanee, Wilford, etc).

If Stills contract demands are astronomically high, of course we can't afford to sign him. But if we see him signed elsewhere to what looks like a reasonable deal for a player still young and entering his prime, coming off a 9 touchdown season, and providing the deep threat many teams crave - that's a huge red flag that our value proposition on players is all wrong.

This is not baseball, and you can't play moneyball all the time. Sometimes you have to overpay a bit to keep players that work well and have proven themselves in our offense, working with our coaches and QBs.

Losing Miller last season worked out for us but I believe we were lucky in that case. Reports are we were 500k apart, you don't let a player you want to keep walk over that amount of money.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by JMP on Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:00 pm

white1 wrote:This is going to show a lot about this front office.

Letting Stills walk entails more than a small measure of risk.

You just can't project how another receiver will perform in our scheme, with our quarterback, and all the other players on the offense.  We've seen time and again the free agent receivers brought in only to disappoint (Wallace, Marshall, Naanee, Wilford, etc).  

If Stills contract demands are astronomically high, of course we can't afford to sign him.  But if we see him signed elsewhere to what looks like a reasonable deal for a player still young and entering his prime, coming off a 9 touchdown season, and providing the deep threat many teams crave - that's a huge red flag that our value proposition on players is all wrong.

This is not baseball, and you can't play moneyball all the time. Sometimes you have to overpay a bit to keep players that work well and have proven themselves in our offense, working with our coaches and QBs.

Losing Miller last season worked out for us but I believe we were lucky in that case.  Reports are we were 500k apart, you don't let a player you want to keep walk over that amount of money.

I think the difference here is that the Dolphins spent a bunch of draft picks on Leonte Carroo last season. While his skillset is completely different than Stills', you have to wonder if the Dolphins are OK with moving Carroo up to #3 on the depth chart to replace Stills. Because if Stills comes back, Carroo is almost certainly going to be a benchwarmer again in 2017 and for years beyond that (barring inuries to the top 3 receivers). It just seems crazy to me that the team would make a huge investment in Carroo, and then just keep him on the bench for the majority of his rookie contract.

I've been saying for years that the Dolphins should start doing what teams like the Patriots, Packers and Steelers do: let your high-priced FAs walk and then replace them with younger players that you drafted and developed. As white points out, that worked for the Phins this season, with Ajayi replacing Miller...but that's really the only example we've seen in Miami that actually worked. The issue with the Stills situation is that Carroo showed absolutely nothing as a rookie, to the point that he wasn't even active the last few games because he has zero Special Teams value. So that's the multi-million dollar question: can Carroo be the #3 receiver in 2017? If the coaches believe the answer is yes, then re-signing Stills is not a priority. But if the coaches think Carroo is only a #4 or 5, then re-signing Stills becomes much more important.

The other issue that comes into play is Jarvis Landry's contract. If he gets extended this offseason AND the Phins re-sign Stills, that's a huge chunk of cap space devoted to two WRs. The Phins can absorb the cap hit for both, but do they want to? I'm just not sure. Again, I think the team's evaluation of Carroo is the key factor in the Stills situation.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by DolFan 316 on Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:04 pm

JMP wrote:I think the difference here is that the Dolphins spent a bunch of draft picks on Leonte Carroo last season.  While his skillset is completely different than Stills', you have to wonder if the Dolphins are OK with moving Carroo up to #3 on the depth chart to replace Stills.  Because if Stills comes back, Carroo is almost certainly going to be a benchwarmer again in 2017 and for years beyond that (barring inuries to the top 3 receivers).  It just seems crazy to me that the team would make a huge investment in Carroo, and then just keep him on the bench for the majority of his rookie contract.

As soon as I found out what Tannenbaum traded for Carroo (which still irks me to this day) I knew Stills would be gone in the offseason. I'm not even sure Tannenbaum will even pretend to try to keep him.

It is what it is. I remember everyone fretting about Miller and Vernon, yet this team made the playoffs without them and sucked with them. Of course their new teams both made the playoffs too scratch

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by rightchea on Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:02 am

Carroo is horrible and I watch some videos on him in college and he only did good against teams that weren't close to being in the top 25. This is what we are getting out of Tannebaum camp then Miami will never be better than a wild card team

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by JMP on Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:24 am

rightchea wrote:Carroo is horrible and I watch some videos on him in college and he only did good against teams that weren't close to being in the top 25. This is what we are getting out of Tannebaum camp then Miami will never be better than a wild card team

Watching Carroo in college, it seemed like he was open a lot due to schemes and coverages. I don't really see him consistently beating corners or otherwise getting open due to his talent. He does have good hands and he's tough - both great skills for a receiver, of course. But he's on the slow side and doesn't get separation. Really, there's nothing special about him. I hope he does well if he ever gets an opportunity, but I honestly don't see much upside. I still can't figure out why the Dolphins felt that they absolutely had to have Carroo at any cost.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by Birdmond on Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:25 pm

rightchea wrote:Carroo is horrible and I watch some videos on him in college and he only did good against teams that weren't close to being in the top 25. This is what we are getting out of Tannebaum camp then Miami will never be better than a wild card team

You're going to regret this post. Mark my words.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by Birdmond on Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:26 pm

Maturity is Caroo's only issue. He can and will be a player.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by Degarmo on Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:35 pm

The point is to win games. If Stills is our best option, then sign him. If he can be replaced, then you let him walk. There is no one on our roster currently that can replace him, so they'd either have to get lucky in the draft or go out and spend on a free agent. Might as well keep the ones we can.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by white1 on Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:31 am

There is no one on our roster currently that can replace him, so they'd either have to get lucky in the draft or go out and spend on a free agent. Might as well keep the ones we can.

This is my point exactly. We have precious few draft picks likely to net a starter, makes little sense to burn yet another pick on a receiver. Free agency is full of long-odds players that you'd be lucky if they even match what Stills did for the team in 2016. Let alone exceed what he did.

Our depth chart at receiver is Landry - Parker - Stills - Carroo. Landry you sign to a long term deal no question. Stills, maybe you play with the guaranteed money/roster bonuses and you give yourself an "out" for the year that Parker hits free agency, so at that point you can decide which player is better to retain. Let's be honest, the jury is still out on Parker, so I'd be hesitant to release my TD receptions leader only to see Parker fail to pan out and then we have another hole on the roster.

The team was smart with the Tannehill contract in that we have tons of ways to get out of that contract if we want to. The same can be done here. There's no law that we HAVE to sign Stills to a 6 or 8 year deal, I'm sure Stills would see value in hitting free agency again a few years down the road. He's going to want a reasonable amount of guaranteed money (because injury is always a risk), and a reasonable value on an annual basis relative to his performance in 2016. I think that can be done, and we don't have to handcuff ourselves into losing Parker, Carroo, or both in the process.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by JMP on Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:04 pm

All valid points, Degarmo and White. But again - this team has a lot invested in Carroo. Re-sign Stills, and Carroo remains your #4 or 5 receiver for at minimum the next two years, barring injury. I'm not sure that's what the Dolphins have in mind.

If you're asking me - yes, I'm in favor of keeping Stills at the right price. But, I just don't know what the team thinks of Carroo at this point in time. If they want to get something out of their investment in him, I'm not so sure they will try hard to re-sign Stills. On the other hand, if the team does make a huge offer to Stills, that will tell us exactly what they think of Carroo.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by rightchea on Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:37 pm

I not going bank on the fact that he might be good until he can prove that he is worth it. Keep Still until you know that he can carry the weight Still brought to the table last season.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by DolFan 316 on Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:26 pm

Meh. Until proven otherwise, Caroo is a bum. I never thought I'd be saying this, but re-signing the anthem kneeler is a must. Only if he pulls a Vernon and demands the sun, moon and stars should Stills be let go.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by JMP on Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:37 am

Don't misread me - I'm not saying I like Carroo and think he can be great. I actually think he'll be mediocre at best - and maybe a lot worse than that. I'm just saying that the Phins invested a lot in him, and I don't know that the plan is to keep him on the bench (or inactive) for the majority of his rookie contract.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by Degarmo on Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:27 pm

If Caroo is the real deal, he'll beat out Stills or Parker for a spot in straight-up competition.
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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by rightchea on Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:00 am

Ya'll about as crazy as Tannebaum. Carroo stats in college were below average at best.

He only score in seven games in 2015 and one was against Norfolk State. The other team they won where he made it into the endzone was against Indiana. He made it in the endzone once against Maryland and three times against Michigan State, those are not trade up for me stats.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/leonte-carroo-1/gamelog/

Also heard that the Eagles are interested in Stills as well. If Miami really want to get rid of him I resign him then trade him away for a pick.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by Birdmond on Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:35 am

Stills is going to walk. He'll get overpaid. I'm hoping it's not by Miami. I'm all about opportunity cost. If Stills money goes to an upgrade at guard , DE or LB I'm good with it. Remember we lost all those "great" players last year and got better.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

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