Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by rightchea on Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:49 pm

I be okay with that as well if they try to over pay him. IMO, Miami doesn't have the best record in finding good WR in the draft.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by Birdmond on Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:11 pm

Degarmo wrote:If Caroo is the real deal, he'll beat out Stills or Parker for a spot in straight-up competition.

If Stills gets a new deal Caroo is not beating him out. Miami is also not putting their first round pick on the bench. I'm betting Stills walks and Caroo has a solid year.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by Birdmond on Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:00 am

Tannembaum said that Stills earned the right to test the market. So good bye Kenny.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by HalCHorn on Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:01 am

Without Stills, we don't have a true deep threat. Caroo isn't, even if he reaches his potential. If we don't re-sign Stills, we will have yet another need.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by Birdmond on Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:29 am

HalCHorn wrote:Without Stills, we don't have a true deep threat. Caroo isn't, even if he reaches his potential. If we don't re-sign Stills, we will have yet another need.

Parker should be the deep threat. Also Caroo did get open twice deep and Tannehill missed him and Moore missed him.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by JMP on Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:47 am

Regardless of what happens with Stills, we need Parker to finally grow a pair and become the receiver he was drafted to be. Enough talk about his "potential"...time to step up.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by Birdmond on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:17 am

JMP wrote:Regardless of what happens with Stills, we need Parker to finally grow a pair and become the receiver he was drafted to be. Enough talk about his "potential"...time to step up.

Absolutely.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by finfanatic on Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:45 pm

Well...I have not seen MUCH of Caroo, but I never saw anything that made me think he was gonna be good either.

I say Matt Hazel makes it as the ## WR!!!

Very Happy

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by rightchea on Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:54 pm

Supposedly Still want 5 year $30Mil with 12mil in hand.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by JMP on Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:28 pm

rightchea wrote:Supposedly Still want 5 year $30Mil with 12mil in hand.

That's cheaper than I thought...if the Phins want him, that's not bad at all.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by Degarmo on Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:49 pm

I'd grab that deal.
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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by Birdmond on Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:31 am

finfanatic wrote:Well...I have not seen MUCH of Caroo, but I never saw anything that made me think he was gonna be good either.

I say Matt Hazel makes it as the ## WR!!!

Very Happy
.

Caroo did more in college than Rashad Matthews. Everyone said Matthews sucked because he didn't start. How did that work out?

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by Birdmond on Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:33 am

rightchea wrote:Supposedly Still want 5 year $30Mil with 12mil in hand.

Problem is he's going to test the market. So If a team offers him more, which they will, he's gone.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by white1 on Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:15 am

Problem is he's going to test the market. So If a team offers him more, which they will, he's gone.

Valid point.

I guess my point is, if we see another team sign him and the deal is close to the projected 5 yr 30 million with 12 guaranteed, then we've made a mistake.

That's not a cap busting contract, and it's good value to get a player like Stills who really blossomed last season - providing both the deep threat and a legit TD scoring threat.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by JMP on Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:37 am

Birdmond wrote:
Caroo did more in college than Rashad Matthews.  

I wouldn't say that. Carroo played 4 seasons at Rutgers, and Matthews played just 2 at Nevada - and their stats aren't that different. In fact, Matthews had more catches and almost as many yards in fewer games.

Carroo - 30 games, 122 catches, 2373 yards, 19.5 yards per catch, 29 TDs
Matthews - 26 games, 147 catches, 2243 yards, 15.3 yards per catch, 13 TDs

Matthews was also a punt returner and returned 2 punts for TDs (Carroo didn't return punts) and he also had 2 rushing TDs (0 for Carroo).

Anyway, right now Matthews is clearly the better NFL player...and at least Matthews caught 11 passes as a rookie.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by Birdmond on Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:25 pm

Competition is a bit different. Any the point is everyone was down on Matthews until he actually played.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by JMP on Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:18 pm

Birdmond wrote:Competition is a bit different.   Any the point is everyone was down on Matthews until he actually played.  

Sure, the competition is different but Matthews still put up excellent numbers anyway you look at it.

Personally, I was never down on Matthews - I liked him from his first preseason action and wanted the Dolphins to get him more involved. Carroo hasn't impressed me at all yet - not at Rutgers and not at any point in his rookie NFL season.

The big difference between the two is that Matthews was a 7th round pick, while Carroo was a 3rd round pick that also cost an additional 3rd and 4th. There were no expectations for Matthews...but there are huge expectations for Carroo given what it cost to get him.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by HalCHorn on Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:53 pm

I was never down on Matthews. I was down on Failbin for keeping him on the bench for the better part of four years. Every time the guy got a chance to play he played well IMO.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by white1 on Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:07 pm

Great discussion, and thanks to JMP for pulling the college stats.

All NFL teams are projecting to the next level based on college production, tangible attributes and the intangibles like character and work ethic.

Given the college stats, it's clear to see that production was likely a huge factor in what we gave up to get Carroo.

We know Matthews has been successful as an NFL receiver, and is likely to get better as he continues to learn the offense in Tennessee and work with Mariota.

Look at the comparative stats that JMP posted, and compare the two.

Carroo - 30 games, 122 catches, 2373 yards, 19.5 yards per catch, 29 TDs
Matthews - 26 games, 147 catches, 2243 yards, 15.3 yards per catch, 13 TDs

I have no idea how the measurables compare between the two, but the production IMO goes starkly in Carroo's favor. Number of catches (total) is pretty close between the two, a difference of about 11% or so. This means its a comparable and valid sample size. Over that number of catches, two things stand out for me.

One, Carroo posted a superior YPC by 4.2 yards. That's about a 25% increase over the YPC stat Matthews posted. This statistic suggests that Carroo could indeed prove to be a deep threat, in fact superior to what Matthews was.

Second, Carroo caught 29 touchdowns compared to only 13 for Matthews. Roughly translated, that's nearly 1 TD per game, and 1 TD for every 4 catches he made. A true scoring threat for sure. This suggests that Carroo is a dynamic threat with the ball and has a nose for the end zone. Again, to a larger extent than Matthews exhibited in college.

Comparing production is limited in that the players compared are going to naturally vary based on offense, coach, QB - all the variables separating how one team plays vs another. However, I can see the logic applied from a production standpoint, and I better understand the team thinking given these statistics.

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Re: Cowboys Free Agency Focus 2017: Kenny Stills Has Little Bit Of Everything

Post by JMP on Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:35 pm

Nice analysis, white. I know Rutgers ran a pretty wide-open offense, and I've read reports stating that a lot of Carroo's production was scheme-based as opposed to coming from his own skillset. That makes sense to me, given that from what I've seen Carroo lacks breakaway speed and has trouble getting separation. He's tough and has good hands, but I question how his other skills will translate to the NFL.

A bit off-topic, but Carroo also had injury concerns and an off-field issue where he reportedly assaulted an ex-girlfriend, so those things likely contributed to his being available late in the 3rd round.


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