Grier's biggest failure

Looking at all the drafts Grier has been in charge of the biggest failure no one talks about is what happens with his first round picks long term?

The only first round pick he's re-signed long term is Austin Jackson.

I know a deal might be in the works for Tua (3-12 vs playoff teams) but that's it.

Winning teams find players that are standouts and last long term. I've said this for at least the last ten years on this forum.

We can't build a lasting franchise without a foundation of bedrock. Bedrock players are long term solution to a position. If we go into every draft missing crucial parts of the foundation we can't complete the house. The walls fall over in the slightest storm.

We keep doing this over and over and over.

Austin Jackson, that's our fucking bedrock we build the franchise on?

Where's the bedrock on this team?

Here we go again. We will let foundational players hit FA because Grier used to much money in FA to re-sign what should be our bedrock players.

CC, I agree that the approach Grier has used lately is unsustainable.

I also agree his drafting is suspect, not just because of the busts he picks but more for the approach to the draft and his rankings of team needs and values in the draft. The whole Tindall versus Zach Tom thing for example.

This is year six in the Grier rebuild, year three in the McD experiment. SO maybe the changes in HC have the personnel mixed and matched somewhat?

I ma going to give Grier one more year before I go full-nuke on the fire Grier strategy!!! Maybe he has learned his lesson??

Grier was around when the Phins biggest draft day blunder ever took place IMHO, and any and all concerned with that should be immediately excommunicated from the football, NFL thru the peewee leagueS!!! : They took Charles Harris instead of T J Watt!!!

Just a gosh-awful hideous blunder that still makes me ill!

CarsonChris wrote:

The only first round pick he's re-signed long term is Austin Jackson.

That's a misleading statement. Grier became the "true" GM in 2019. Christian Wilkins is Grier's only first round pick to hit free agency so far - and technically he won't become a free agent till next week, and the Phins can still sign him.

The other first round picks were Tua, Jackson, Iggy, Waddle and Phillips. As you mentioned, Jackson has been re-signed and Tua is about to be re-signed. Iggy was a bust. Waddle and Phillips are the only other two players in question, and their deals are not up yet. I suspect both will be extended when the time comes.

CarsonChris wrote:Where's the bedrock on this team?

Younger players like Tua, Jackson, Waddle, Phillips, Smythe, Achane, Holland and Kohou, along with vets like Hill, Ramsey, Chubb, Sieler, Mostert, Ingold, Long, etc.

Grier's biggest blunder to date, IMO, was drafting Iggy.

WHOOO!!! PREACH AWN, CC!!! ALSO, POST MORE!!

finfanatic wrote:I also agree his drafting is suspect, not just because of the busts he picks but more for the approach to the draft and his rankings of team needs and values in the draft.  The whole Tindall versus Zach Tom thing for example.

THANK YOU!!! (Whispers.) Thank you...

If a GM keeps drafting busts and insists after every draft they were the "best players on our board" then he needs to completely re-evaluate how the board is set up.

Grier was named GM in 2016 not 2019.

CarsonChris wrote:Grier was named GM in 2016 not 2019.

But he was not the true GM till 2019. Mike Tannenbaum was in charge from 2015-2018, and he called all the shots. Grier was a GM in name only - Tannenbaum was the decision-maker. Grier became "the man" in 2019.

To double down on the positive view point, Holland Waddle and Phillips are all good high draft picks and are certainly worthy of an extension.

Hunt and Wilkins earned it too - I believe the team is pivoting to the approach you have to take once you pay a franchise QB.

There are only so many positions you can choose to throw big money at. We’ve got Chubb, Phillips, Holland, Hill, Waddle, Ramsey, Armstead. I don’t know that you can pay more than that in big money players once you have Tua on his second deal.

I would certainly choose Seiler over Wilkins if that means I can sign an elite center. Williams seams to fit the bill but he got hurt

white1 wrote:To double down on the positive view point, Holland Waddle and Phillips are all good high draft picks and are certainly worthy of an extension.

Hunt and Wilkins earned it too - I believe the team is pivoting to the approach you have to take once you pay a franchise QB.

There are only so many positions you can choose to throw big money at. We’ve got Chubb, Phillips, Holland, Hill, Waddle, Ramsey, Armstead. I don’t know that you can pay more than that in big money players once you have Tua on his second deal.

I would certainly choose Seiler over Wilkins if that means I can sign an elite center. Williams seams to fit the bill but he got hurt

Just look at the cap trouble the Bills and Chargers found themselves in after signing Allen and Herbert to their monster deals--and the meat of Herbert's won't even kick in until next season!

https://overthecap.com/player/justin-herbert/8746

The lesson to be learned here is that teams need to decide if they want players at least a year in advance because if they wait even a few months to offer an extension, the player's demand will skyrocket. Sadly, Herbert will be making chump change compared to what Tua will inevitably get simply because he was extended much sooner and that's it.

white1 wrote:

There are only so many positions you can choose to throw big money at. We’ve got Chubb, Phillips, Holland, Hill, Waddle, Ramsey, Armstead. I don’t know that you can pay more than that in big money players once you have Tua on his second deal.

white is killing it today!

Great point here. One thing to consider about Holland: the safety position is so devalued right now - just look at all the good/great safeties getting cut this week, as well as the overall rankings of top safeties in the draft. Do we even re-sign Holland if he's looking for a big payday?

One thing to consider about Holland: the safety position is so devalued right now - just look at all the good/great safeties getting cut this week, as well as the overall rankings of top safeties in the draft. Do we even re-sign Holland if he's looking for a big payday?

I am thinking the safety market will take care of itself.

Holland's agent is going to find that high priced safeties are very few and far between, and Holland's stats won't provide a compelling argument to "break the bank".

I really like Holland. Safety is probably a great position to lock up a player long term, because there just isn't much money allocated to the position. However, I think a great safety can be a key piece of an effective defense. Long story short, it's a good "value" play.

just thinking about all the cap gymnastics Miami has to do to just under the cap - not to mention get under far enough to fill all the holes.

The Dolphins remain about $23 million over the cap and must be cap compliant by 4 p.m. Wednesday. The restructuring of Terron Armstead’s contract will clear out at least $8.3 million. Realistically, Miami needs to clear out more than $40 million in space to conduct offseason business.

One thing that’s hurting the Dolphins: dead money. Cornerback Byron Jones, who hasn’t been on the team in a year and hasn’t played in an NFL game since 2021, is counting $10 million against Miami’s 2024 cap. Jerome Baker, who was released recently, is counting $4.9 million against the 2024 cap.

Without those two - combined with the money to be saved on the Armstead restructuring - Miami would be at the cap, not well over.

Impending unrestricted free agent receiver Cedrick Wilson Jr. has a $2.5 million cap charge this season.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/live-updates-dolphins-news-where-143523353.html

with the exception of Baker, its all about dealing with money problems for names of guys that weren't drafted. and the guys who need to be extended/renegotiated to address the cap problem? yep, Ramsey, Chubb and Tyreek Hill...guys who were not drafted.

Yes, Merc, thus the "Unsustainable" in my description of Grier's personnel approach. Even with the salary cap increasing year after year, paying players who are no longer on the team means "mistakes were made" and makes filling holes much more difficult in free agency.

I am hopeful what Grier said a while back about not being able to trade for and sign proven big money players long term is what he is going to do in the future.

But that will put more "em" on the "pha-sis" of the draft!!! And while Grier has hit some picks for sure, he ain't exactly knocking it out of the park IMHO.

But we shall see.

Bottom line, up to this point we have whiffed on every single draft pick the past two years outside of Achane. I can't say the outcome would have been different last year with more production out of the 22/23 drafts, since you can't predict injuries to that level, but we would sure be in better shape now with some known quantities as second and third year players ready to take another step. Outside of Achane and maybe Thompson (who isn't a starter), we can't count on anyone else from those drafts to step and do anything at this point in time.

HalCHorn wrote:Bottom line, up to this point we have whiffed on every single draft pick the past two years outside of Achane.  I can't say the outcome would have been different last year with more production out of the 22/23 drafts, since you can't predict injuries to that level, but we would sure be in better shape now with some known quantities as second and third year players ready to take another step.  Outside of Achane and maybe Thompson (who isn't a starter), we can't count on anyone else from those drafts to step and do anything at this point in time.  

Again it's not the whiffing of the actual picks but who Grier chose NOT to pick that's the issue. Could've had Tom, Torrence and Humphrey on the O-line rigt now with the exact same draft capital from '21-23 with no trade-ups.

More foundation crumbling today. No bedrock. Hope Austin Jackson can play all positions on the line at the same time because he's the only lineman left that isn't always on crutches or getting abused like a turnstile

CarsonChris wrote:More foundation crumbling today. No bedrock. Hope Austin Jackson can play all positions on the line at the same time because he's the only lineman left that isn't always on crutches or getting abused like a turnstile

This team actually decided they'd rather have Jonnu Smith than AVG. This is an actual thing they actually did. SMH.

2016-2019 drafts virtually wiped out. Only player left from those now is Smythe. Tua and Jackson only ones remaining from 2020. Waddle, Phillips and Holland all guaranteed to leave next offseason because no cap space.

Why is Grier still employed again? Oh that's right, the Flores suit somehow continues to exist.

Hallelujah, we signed Eli Apple

DolFan 316 wrote:

This team actually decided they'd rather have Jonnu Smith than AVG. This is an actual thing they actually did.  

Huh??? The two have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

JMP wrote:Huh??? The two have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Exact same pool of money. I'll put it another way: if you have ten grand and are looking at two items to buy but know you can't afford both with the money you have, then choosing one absolutely has something to do with the other. Spending on AVG would've been a far better decision than bringing in Smith, simply because edge is (or should've been) a much greater need than backup TE wo for all we know won't even get thrown to that much in this offense which is known for not throwing the ball to TEs.

Hey, I did give you credit for being right about one thing

It's not the same pool of money, though. The Dolphins will have the cap space to sign whoever they want. They'll probably play it conservatively, as they usually do in free agency, but they certainly could have afforded AVG. I don't know why he left...could be he wanted to play for Flores again. And the Dolphins just might have other plans. We'll see.

Either way, it sucks to lose AVG but I'm going to see how it all plays out.

JMP wrote:It's not the same pool of money, though. The Dolphins will have the cap space to sign whoever they want. They'll probably play it conservatively, as they usually do in free agency,  but they certainly could have afforded AVG. I don't know why he left...could be he wanted to play for Flores again. And the Dolphins just might have other plans. We'll see.

Either way, it sucks to lose AVG but I'm going to see how it all plays out.

At least you conceded the bolded part. I'll take whatever small victories I can get today Good point about Flores, I hadn't even thought of that. Although I can't imagine why someone as likeable as AVG would ever *want* to play for someone on the complete opposite end of the humanity scale as Flores, especially when his breakout came AFTER Flores left

You have to assume Weaver did not want AVG.

If Weaver was pounding on the table for AVG, I have to assume Grier and Co. would have been able to offer the same amount the Vikings did.

I want to believe their is a plan and this is all not just cosmetic to cover up having to let talent go because you foolishly went all in on a "Live-for-today" personnel approach that has yielded one team that won 11 games and not one playoff win!!

But so far... it ain't lookin' too good!!!

Maybe things will improve? Right. RIGHT!!!

We've been screaming for years to rebuild the LB corps. We did that yesterday, and it looks MUCH improved.

Not to pat myself on the back (proceeds to do so)

I predicted the LB corps would be revamped. And it has been. I think Queen is still available? Rumor has it Fins will be in play for him...

Hallelujah, we signed Eli Apple

I believe that was a fake Twitter account. The money was ridiculous.