We asked for it

This doesn’t look like the same team we’ve watched d for the last 15 years. 8-8, 7-9. We have wanted the team to be junked and for a complete rebuild. This is exactly what we wanted. Let’s not moan about it, celebrate it!

The real question will come at the end of the year. Do we have the right GM to find talented players in the draft?

I think they're actually set up fine. The thing with a dumpster fire is, it's better to just let it burn. I'd rather have a fire-cleaned dumpster than a bunch of half-burned wet garbage.

CarsonChris wrote:This doesn’t look like the same team we’ve watched d for the last 15 years. 8-8, 7-9. We have wanted the team to be junked and for a complete rebuild.  This is exactly what we wanted. Let’s not moan about it, celebrate it!

The real question will come at the end of the year. Do we have the right GM to find talented players in the draft?

Weren't you the one who started a thread about how you at least didn't want them to be pussies and if they were going to lose at least be physical and let the other team know they were in a game? I could've sworn I saw that from you.

BTW no team tanks this hard for a lineman or any other position except QB. Also, I didn't ask for 40-plus point curbstompings every week. There have been plenty of teams who somehow managed to lose just fine without setting franchise records for awfulness in the process.

Also I want to add, that even the 2011 Colts, who everybody knew were tanking from the start, took 5 games to get outscored by exactly how much the Fins did in one.

http://pfref.com/tiny/EaApi

In fact, other than a ridiculous 55-point loss to the Saints, that team never lost by more than 27 all season (and only twice did it get that bad) with eight of their losses by 10 or less, and three more by less than 20! The first rule of tanking is, you damn well better at least make it look good. They even briefly put the top draft spot in actual peril by winning 2 straight late that season. And I don't recall ever hearing anything about a player revolt at any point. To this day I admire the Colts for the masterful way they pulled it off. Too bad this team couldn't learn from that.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/2011.htm

CarsonChris wrote:We have wanted the team to be junked and for a complete rebuild.  This is exactly what we wanted. Let’s not moan about it, celebrate it!

The real question will come at the end of the year. Do we have the right GM to find talented players in the draft?

Absolutely. This is what I wanted, and I'm willing to see how it plays out. Next offseason is when we find out if this team is on track or not.

DolFan 316 wrote:I didn't ask for 40-plus point curbstompings every week.

In this case, "every week" is actually "one week". We've played ONE GAME.

Did you guys think this was going to be easy? It's a TRUE rebuild, and in order to clean up the cap mess it was necessary to go with a depleted, weak roster this season. The fact is, we have a piss-poor roster and that's how it had to be to get us set for the future. It's going to be UGLY before it gets better - that's just the reality of the situation, and anyone that thought it would be easy and painless is and was wrong.

But the thing with young, unproven players and coaches is this: sometimes, they get better. And that's what we have to see: are any of these guys going to get better throughout the season? It's not about one game, or even five...it's about seeing progress over the course of the entire season. Yesterday, for example, we saw DeVante Parker make tough catches in traffic - that's progress for him. We saw Preston Williams overcome a terrible drop and make two highlight-reel catches - that's progress. That's two young players that have a chance to build off some good things that they showed, and they can continue to make strides.

Baby steps, people - that's what we need to look for this season.

I knew it was gonna be ugly, but that was UGLLLEEEEEE!

Just seemed like a whole lot of guys out of position, and ill-prepared IMO. With the roster in big time flux, maybe that was to be expected.

I was expecting the Phins to lose, but the LB and Safety play was sickeningly bad IMO. They all looked supremely corn-fused!

O-line is a day by day throw it against the wall and see what sticks operation. Let's just hope they can get a little cohesion going.

It's gonna be a long season for sure. But after just one game, I doubt we can tell if it is going to be historically bad? Can we?

finfanatic wrote:
O-line is a day by day throw it against the wall and see what sticks operation. Let's just hope they can get a little cohesion going.

Hard to tell for sure, but it seemed to me that Davis and Kilgore had decent games.  The rest of the line...not so much, to put it mildly.  But considering the RG and RT have only been with the team for about a week, their performance was not a surprise.  We'll see what happens next...they need to find the best 5 and ride with them, let them gel and build cohesion.  I'd like to see Chris Reed at RG, see what he can do.

I saw Dieter grade out on pff one of best on offense

white1 wrote:I saw Dieter grade out on pff one of best on offense

Interesting. Again, not always easy to tell on TV, but it looked like he gave up a few pressures. From my view only Davis played halfway decent on the line.

Yeah I can see the thinking in extending Davis. Good size with position flexibility and he’s cost effective. Not too expensive to keep as a depth player if you upgrade enough on the line. Good signing.

white1 wrote:Yeah I can see the thinking in extending Davis. Good size with position flexibility and he’s cost effective. Not too expensive to keep as a depth player if you upgrade enough on the line. Good signing.

Definitely. And if he ends up being at least adequate at LT...that contract is a huge bargain. We'll see...

to be honest do you have to totally break down a team to rebuild. my thing is you want to win to give FA the idea that it a good place to go to get a ring. if you dont give off that idealism then who wants to go there.

Miami really could have done like most team and built around players that were good and then found better along the way. Giving off the perception of tanking for better draft picks seems okay but how does that affect your offseasons next year.

rightchea wrote:to be honest do you have to totally break down a team to rebuild. my thing is you want to win to give FA the idea that it a good place to go to get a ring. if you dont give off that idealism then who wants to go there.

Miami really could have done like most team and built around players that were good and then found better along the way. Giving off the perception of tanking for better draft picks seems okay but how does that affect your offseasons next year.

The reason they tore the roster down is to start with a clean slate and get rid of all the bad contracts.  There were far too many overpaid players on this team, and the Phins chose to get rid of them now in order to absorb all the dead money this year.  That way, we'll have a ton of cap space moving forward, as well as a ton of picks to use on players that fit the new systems.  Of course, eating all that daed money means that we had to load this year's roster with low-level players - but that's how it has to be in year one.  The hope is that some of these players evolve into major contributors down the road.

You're right - they didn't have to do that.  They could have kept some of the overpaid players this year, won 5 or 6 games, and dropped them next year - but then we'd be stuck with the dead cap money next year.  This was all designed to have a complete re-do in 2020...almost like an expansion team just starting from zero.  What it means is that this staff can build the team it wants immediately - without having to carry players that don't fit.  In 2020 this roster will be ENTIRELY Grier/Flores, and we'll have the cap space to add actual talent instead of simply hoarding undrafted rookies.

This is a completely new approach for the Dolphins.  We've tried the  other way for years, basically treating the draft as background and using free agency to load the roster with aging, declining veterans.  That approach failed, time and time and time again.  It was time for something different.  Time will tell if it works or not, but it is at least refreshing to see this team finally commit to REAL change.

JMP wrote:

The reason they tore the roster down is to start with a clean slate and get rid of all the bad contracts.  There were far too many overpaid players on this team, and the Phins chose to get rid of them now in order to absorb all the dead money this year.

Yeah that was the biggest problem in the last couple of years. Give big contract to players that make big plays and Miami haven't found anyone like that yet.

I agree. The only way to clear up the cap mess was to burn it down.

Tannenbaum and Gase screwed the Phins. And if it had kept on, the screwing would have gotten worse IMO.

Trading Tunsil? I think Grier wanted to keep him, but...The Texans made an offer you just could not refuse...especially if this was gonna be a "burn it down" type of season.

based on all the moves that Miami has made they have $90M in cap. that mean you can find above average players for cheap but at the same time if this idea of tanking keep happening Miami gonna have a hard time finding FA.

remember that one year wait like a lot of years where miami couldn't get a good player to come to miami. let's hope that doesnt happen again

rightchea wrote:based on all the moves that Miami has made they have $90M in cap. that mean you can find above average players for cheap but at the same time if this idea of tanking keep happening Miami gonna have a hard time finding FA.

remember that one year wait like a lot of years where miami couldn't get a good player to come to miami. let's hope that doesnt happen again

Yep.  The hope is that people will view this team much differently after week 17 than they do after week 1.  If this coaching staff is worthwhile, we will see improvement as we go along and the team should be playing at a much higher level by the end.  But if we get blown out every single week and don't improve, yeah, it will be a tough sell for free agents.  But again - money talks.  

Keep those fingers crossed!

I think past coaches gave free rides to certain players because they thought we needed them. I think this staff isn’t giving a free ride to anyone. They want players that play within the system not freelance. I also believe they want to see which players respond to adversity and which ones give up. We need to find 50 players with the right mental attitude. They don’t have to be the best athlete, the best player. They need to have the right mentality and work ethic. This is a test of character!

I'm not sure we'll be attracting the free agents next year either, but Year 3 should be when we start to see real tangible results.

CarsonChris wrote:I also believe they want to see which players respond to adversity and which ones give up. We need to find 50 players with the right mental attitude. They don’t have to be the best athlete, the best player. They need to have the right mentality and work ethic. This is a test of character!

Absolutely. That loss on Sunday was definitely a test. We'll find out who the football players are, and who the whiners are. So far, guys like Baker and Kilgore have stepped up and are taking leardership roles after the loss...and guys like Minkah are whining like little bitches.

Here's the part I can't wrap my mind around. Why give up a 2nd for Rosen (instead of drafting the center that the Saints did) when they just as easily could've gone 0-16 with Fitz and Rudock? How can Rosen even be properly evaluated at all this season? And if he was never in or going to be in the conversation to start at QB then why give up anything for him at all when every other move has been designed to gain draft capital?

DolFan 316 wrote:Here's the part I can't wrap my mind around. Why give up a 2nd for Rosen (instead of drafting the center that the Saints did) when they just as easily could've gone 0-16 with Fitz and Rudock? How can Rosen even be properly evaluated at all this season? And if he was never in or going to be in the conversation to start at QB then why give up anything for him at all when every other move has been designed to gain draft capital?

Totally agree and I was kinda mad about that as well. Miami needs OL and if you rebuilding why not do it your first draft why wait. I feel like that should have been test one if Miami was really about finding people for this rebuild. Also could have drafted a late round QB as well now you have a young QB year one and a rookie QB

DolFan 316 wrote:Here's the part I can't wrap my mind around. Why give up a 2nd for Rosen (instead of drafting the center that the Saints did) when they just as easily could've gone 0-16 with Fitz and Rudock? How can Rosen even be properly evaluated at all this season? And if he was never in or going to be in the conversation to start at QB then why give up anything for him at all when every other move has been designed to gain draft capital?

The simple answer is that Grier thought that Rosen might be "the guy". Any other answer really doesn't make sense. There's lots of ways to spin it, but if he doesn't pan out, it was a bad trade. If he does, it was a great trade.

DolFan 316 wrote:Here's the part I can't wrap my mind around. Why give up a 2nd for Rosen (instead of drafting the center that the Saints did) when they just as easily could've gone 0-16 with Fitz and Rudock? How can Rosen even be properly evaluated at all this season? And if he was never in or going to be in the conversation to start at QB then why give up anything for him at all when every other move has been designed to gain draft capital?

One game has been played so far. Rosen will start as soon as he's ready to start. We took a chance on a top 10 pick at a bargain price, and if nothing else we have a quality backup at a minimal salary for the next few years. We've complained for years that the QB position has been ignored, and the team finally made a move and people still complain.