Combine thoughts

Guys, what a lot of you are forgetting, or not considering, Chris Greir NEEDS TO GET THE QB OF THE FUTURE THIS YEAR! Or, like JMP said, this last year was a colossal FAILURE. I think the fanbase will not accept a year like last, if we go one more year with the same old same old at QB. You may see a revolt if we do not pick a QB at 5, if we are still there.

To think we go another year thinking, we'll get our guy next year will not fly. I hear a lot of people saying, let's just roll with Fitzie (who I love) and Rosen and see what happens and then go all in for Lawrence next year. How did that Tank for Tua stuff work out for you this year?

Greir's job is on the line. If he does not hit a home run this offseason, he is in serious jeopardy of getting fired. He simply can not pass up a possible generational talent (TUA) and let him go elsewhere and star. I wouldn't even be that upset if we take Tua and he does not make it and then we try again next year. But to not go all in is wrong.

It depends.  If they can move back in this draft (assuming the guy they want at QB is taken before they get to pick and can't move up) and stockpile more picks, then moving up next year is a possibility too.  

It's all good though, we'll pick Cole McDonald and he'll shock the world.

Degarmo wrote:It depends.  If they can move back in this draft (assuming the guy they want at QB is taken before they get to pick and can't move up) and stockpile more picks, then moving up next year is a possibility too.  

It's all good though, we'll pick Cole McDonald and he'll shock the world.  

That would be funny if Miami got Cole McDonald and he does well enough to win the starting position and then take Miami deep into the playoffs

scotgif wrote:

JMP wrote:

rightchea wrote:News from the Combine....

Tim Daniels wrote:The Washington Redskins selected quarterback Dwayne Haskins with the 15th overall pick in 2019, but it's reportedly still a "very real possibility" they take another QB at No. 2 in the 2020 NFL draft.

Michael Silver of the NFL Network reported the update Friday and noted the chances of the Redskins taking a quarterback will further increase if Alabama signal-caller Tua Tagovailoa receives a clean bill of health after suffering multiple injuries during his final season with the Crimson Tide.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2878446-redskins-rumors-drafting-a-qb-no-2-very-real-possibility-amid-tua-buzz

Wouldn't be surprised by this at all. There not a lot of love for Haskin in Washington and if Rivera feels that Tua would be a better pickup then he will go after him.

I'd say there's zero chance of the Skins drafting a QB at 2.  Not worried about that at all.  

I don't see the skins taking a QB with 2. Snyder is a big Haskins fan. In fact, he is said to have mandated that they picked him last year. Plus, his son played with Haskins in high school. We all know that what snyder wants he gets. I don't see the skins going QB this year.

Yeah, to me all signs point to the Skins not taking a QB, at least in round one. I think they're trying really hard to put up a smokescreen to drive up the cost of the #2 pick, but I'm not buying it.

rightchea wrote:

Degarmo wrote:It depends.  If they can move back in this draft (assuming the guy they want at QB is taken before they get to pick and can't move up) and stockpile more picks, then moving up next year is a possibility too.  

It's all good though, we'll pick Cole McDonald and he'll shock the world.  

That would be funny if Miami got Cole McDonald and he does well enough to win the starting position and then take Miami deep into the playoffs

LOL That might be the craziest thing in NFL history if it happened!

I do like Cole McDonald as a late-round project. Both him and Princeton QB Kevin Davidson look like real good late-round developmental prospects.

scotgif wrote:

To think we go another year thinking, we'll get our guy next year will not fly. I hear a lot of people saying, let's just roll with Fitzie (who I love) and Rosen and see what happens and then go all in for Lawrence next year. How did that Tank for Tua stuff work out for you this year?

I assume the Dolphins are going to win more games in 2020.  That's going to make it even harder to move up to #1 for Lawrence in 2021.  I just think it's crazy to ignore QB this offseason and just assume you can somehow land Lawrence in 2021.

We're never going to be in a better position to draft a top QB prospect than we are now.  We have the ammo, and there's no excuse to not walk away from this draft with either Tua or Burrow.

I'd be thrilled with either Burrow or Tua.

I'd be OK with Herbert or Love. Both have a real chance; very different questions about them both, but the physical tools are there.

Eason and Hurts would be next, the latter could well become another Lamar Jackson. I wouldn't want Fromm before the 4th round based on what I saw; fairly screams Colt McCoy.

Tua is the equivalent of a Ming vase that’s been dropped and glued back together. I just don’t see paying full price for a broken vase. I think that weighs heavily upon the decision making this draft. It might move Tua out of the conversation.

CarsonChris wrote:Tua is the equivalent of a Ming vase that’s been dropped and glued back together. I just don’t see paying full price for a broken vase. I think that weighs heavily upon the decision making this draft. It might move Tua out of the conversation.

If Tua is healthy and the prognosis is that he'll be fine, then it's really a non-issue. And that seems to be where this is heading.

Again seems fine doesn’t mean not broken.

I started a thread a long time ago about the longevity of our top picks. The difference between a make or break draft is how long a player makes an impact for the team. A great selection is one that locks down the position they are drafted for for ten years. Miami drafts players that don’t last long on the team. We always end up needing to draft the same position in a couple or few years. We will never be great if that continues. Drafting an injury prone player will most likely cause that same scenario.

Not just the draft position but the type of player as well. Miami has always drafted players that have some type of injury history. For me Tua has to workout during Pro Day for him to be a reason to move up in the draft for him. He doesn't workout during pro day (all QB drills) then he is not worth moving up.

CarsonChris wrote:Again seems fine doesn’t mean not broken.

Sure - just like Burrow could re-injure his hand, Herbert could re-injure his shoulder, or Chase Young could get hit by a car week 8 and never walk again. You can't be scared that a player might get injured (or re-injured), because it's part of the game. It can happen to anyone at any time.

Past injury doesn't mean future injury. The Dolphins learned that with Drew Brees.

CarsonChris wrote:I started a thread a long time ago about the longevity of our top picks. The difference between a make or break draft is how long a player makes an impact for the team. A great selection is one that locks down the position they are drafted for for ten years. Miami drafts players that don’t last long on the team.  We always end up needing to draft the same position in a couple or few years. We will never be great if that continues.  Drafting an injury prone player will most likely cause that same scenario.

Longevity isn't a good indicator. With free agency, sometimes a player just prices himself off the team.

Impact is the key. What type of impact did the player have while he was here? Unfortunately, most Dolphins first round picks have been bad players. That has to change. Tua is an elite player, and he isn't injury prone. We haven't drafted an elite player in round one since the 90s with Richmond Webb and Tim Bowens. Tua would change that.

3 injures in 2 years doesn't say healthy. Remember Parker wasn't injury prone either until he got to the NFL and was injured every year besides last year. yeah ankle injures isn't major but it still a lot of things happening for a two year starter.

Will Tua run a qb sneak, an end around, or scramble for a first down? I’m thinking the team would need to adjust their game plan so Mr Glass doesn’t break again

There are two factors in being a great player, as Jim Mandich said, ability and durability.

I'm not saying Tua isn't durable, but durability is important. You can be an impact player and then get hurt, and although your impact was great for a short time, it doesn't really help the team very much.

JMP wrote:Past injury doesn't mean future injury.

food for thought in this discussion about Tua's future prognosis...

ESPN’s Todd McShay raised one interesting point about Tagovailoa, noting: “You go back and look at the history of the draft, you look at the history of college quarterbacks, first-round quarterbacks that are drafted and have had injuries in college, they go on to have injuries in the NFL.

“Seven first-round quarterbacks have been taken in the last 10 years that have had injuries in college. All seven of them have had injuries in the NFL, starting with Sam Bradford. Robert Griffin III, Carson Wentz, the list goes on and on. Deshaun Watson. And it’s not necessarily the same injury.

“This guy [Tua], go back to high school and study what his history is. He had injuries in high school. He’s had injuries in college. He’s never played a full season of football in his career, unfortunately. He’s an absolutely phenomenal quarterback, and he should be the first overall pick in this year’s draft if he was completely healthy. But he’s not, and you have to factor that into the evaluation.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article240793796.html

"He’s never played a full season of football in his career" Wow!!

I think Mr Glass will have some great NFL film for the four years he plays

CarsonChris wrote:Will Tua run a qb sneak, an end around, or scramble for a first down?

Yep, just like any QB. Why wouldn't he?

CarsonChris wrote:I think Mr Glass will have some great NFL film for the four years he plays

That would be 4 more years than any other Dolphin QB since Marino!

Degarmo wrote:There are two factors in being a great player, as Jim Mandich said, ability and durability.

I'm not saying Tua isn't durable, but durability is important.  You can be an impact player and then get hurt, and although your impact was great for a short time, it doesn't really help the team very much.

Of course durability is key, for any player at any position.

But I would argue that if you had a huge impact for a short time, isn't it better than having no impact at all? I think the Colts are happy with what they got from Luck.

That said, there is no indication that Tua is injury prone or will have a short career.

mercury22nathan wrote:

JMP wrote:Past injury doesn't mean future injury.

food for thought in this discussion about Tua's future prognosis...

ESPN’s Todd McShay raised one interesting point about Tagovailoa, noting: “You go back and look at the history of the draft, you look at the history of college quarterbacks, first-round quarterbacks that are drafted and have had injuries in college, they go on to have injuries in the NFL.

“Seven first-round quarterbacks have been taken in the last 10 years that have had injuries in college. All seven of them have had injuries in the NFL, starting with Sam Bradford. Robert Griffin III, Carson Wentz, the list goes on and on. Deshaun Watson. And it’s not necessarily the same injury.

“This guy [Tua], go back to high school and study what his history is. He had injuries in high school. He’s had injuries in college. He’s never played a full season of football in his career, unfortunately. He’s an absolutely phenomenal quarterback, and he should be the first overall pick in this year’s draft if he was completely healthy. But he’s not, and you have to factor that into the evaluation.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article240793796.html

"He’s never played a full season of football in his career"  Wow!!

Every QB not named Brett Favre or Eli Manning deals with injuries. Pat Mahomes missed 2 games this season. Hall of Famers Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees, Dan Marino, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady had serious injuries. Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert missed time with injuries.

I can't stress this enough: you cannot pass up elite talent because you are afraid. That's a loser's mentality. If you swing and miss, you try again. It's the nature of the beast. But instead of continuing to collect mediocre QBs, let's take a shot at greatness for a change.

No one is saying that there not going to be injures but there is a time where injures hurt the team. for example Sam Bradford started every game from 2010 to 2012 was ding up and played horrible. QB rating in the low 50 and lower. 2013 played seven games. 2014 didn't play. traded to philly and played most of the season dinged up and was horrible.

Robert Griffin III did well one year got injured and hasn't been the same. From top 10 draft pick to backup.

Now like I said before I not a fan of missing out on players that can make Miami into a better team but at the same time I not sure if Tua is worth trading away a 1st round pick for him unless he looks mobile during pro day and not a stiff starch down shirt.