Armando's top 50 Dolphins list

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2015/12/miami-dolphins-top-50-players-of-all-time.html

My thoughts and list:

QB: Griese and Marino are no brainers, and I guess I'd have to have Morrall on here too for arguably the greatest backup QB season in history. (3)

WR: I agree with the 5 selections here though you could make a case for Duriel Harris or Chambers over McDuffie. (5)

O-Line: I'd leave Pouncey off. But I'd add Roy Foster and Jon Giesler from the 1980's Super Bowl teams. Wayne Moore and Tim Ruddy have strong cases too (10)

TE: Mandich is probably on here for sentimental reasons, but it is hard to leave him off. Still, I think Hardy and K-Jack are the only two I'd put on here for on-field play (2)

RB: I agree with the 5 selected. (5)

D-Line: Can't argue with any of Armando's selections, but do you list Wake here or at LB? ( Randy Starks and Jeff Cross might have cases.

LB: If not for his untimely death, Larry Gordon would be on here. I'm putting him on mine in addition to these picks (

DB: Grimes should be left off for Curtis Johnson. I'd leave Oliver off for Tim Foley as well. (7)

K/P: Yepremian and Roby. (2)

My responses to Hal's responses:

QB: Griese and Marino are no brainers, and I guess I'd have to have Morrall on here too for arguably the greatest backup QB season in history. (3)
--- Yep, QB is the easiest position to rate for the Phins!

WR: I agree with the 5 selections here though you could make a case for Duriel Harris or Chambers over McDuffie. (5)
--- I think the 5 selections are perfect. No way would I put Harris or Chambers over McDuffie...McDuffie was absolutely clutch.

O-Line: I'd leave Pouncey off. But I'd add Roy Foster and Jon Giesler from the 1980's Super Bowl teams. Wayne Moore and Tim Ruddy have strong cases too (10)
--- Pouncey is so overrated. I'd put Ruddy over him. I'd also love to find a spot for Ron Heller, but he was only a Dolphin for 2.5 seasons. What a mauler...loved watching him play.

TE: Mandich is probably on here for sentimental reasons, but it is hard to leave him off. Still, I think Hardy and K-Jack are the only two I'd put on here for on-field play (2)
--- I'd definitely add Randy McMichael. He was a great player for a few years. Charles Clay deserves honorable mention for being pretty damn good at a position that hasn't been great for the Phins through the years.

RB: I agree with the 5 selected. (5)
--- Agreed.

D-Line: Can't argue with any of Armando's selections, but do you list Wake here or at LB? (Cool Randy Starks and Jeff Cross might have cases.
---Toughest position to judge, because the Phins have had some great D-linemen over the years. Daryl Gardner and Trace Armstrong deserve some love here too.

LB: If not for his untimely death, Larry Gordon would be on here. I'm putting him on mine in addition to these picks
---I think Armando nailed it.

DB: Grimes should be left off for Curtis Johnson. I'd leave Oliver off for Tim Foley as well. (7)
---I wouldn't have Grimes on there at all. I'm fine with Oliver being on the list. Brock Marion gets honorable mention.

K/P: Yepremian and Roby. (2)
---I'd consider Stoyanovich if there was room.

Sorry for not replying to this sooner, had some stuff going on this weekend. So here are my thoughts

POUNCEY?!?! Seriously?!?! And no, I wouldn't have replaced him with Ruddy. Neither belong on the same list as Langer and Styephenson, period. Hell, Long has more of a case than those two. I compared Foster to Giesler, and Foster had a higher and slightly longer peak, made a couple of Pro Bowls to Giesler's none, and had that one TD catch VS Barfalo in the playoffs that literally threw a scare into Ralph Wilson and gave me an actual glimmer of hope they'd win. Which was soon snuffed out of course. So Foster it is

I'd actually put Wife Beater over Jackson at TE to be honest. Jackson was one of the most overrated Fins ever IMO, and Wife Beater had better receiving numbers with far worse QBs.

It makes me cringe to see You Know Who on the all-time RBs list. The man had ONE great season, one decent one, then betrayed the team to smoke pot, and his arrival coincided exactly with the Fins' downfall which lasts to this day. Meh. Might as well have thrown in The Bust while they were at it

I understand why Bryan "I Suck" Cox is on the LB list, but I'd have left him off on general principle. Also, because he was a big baby. Also, because Zach immediately followed him and was so much better.

I'd have replaced Grimes with Brock Marion on the DB list. No current Fins other than Wake deserves any mention whatsoever on a list like this.

I might have also found room for Stoyo or even Mare somewhere.

Other than those things I agree with everything else

I suppose it's too late to get Grimes off that list now, right? The Giants certainly didn't seem to act he was one of the 50 greatest players in team history.

(Sighs.)

An aging cornerback that seems to have lost it since mid-2014, I'm not certain that he should have been considered in the first place.

Don Strock by merit of the '82 San Diego playoff game alone.

Degarmo wrote:An aging cornerback that seems to have lost it since mid-2014, I'm not certain that he should have been considered in the first place.

At least Wake had a few good seasons and I believe is in second on the all-time Fins sack list. What did Grimes really do besides be pretty good for a season and a half?

Exactly. I mean, he's a talented corner, but he's losing a step. It's obvious on the field, and it just happens, and FAST with corners.

With a little help from Pro Football Reference's All Time AV (with the Fins), here's what a top 50 would look like using it:

QB: Marino is 1st and Griese is 4th so they are no-brainers, obviously. However the next QB is....Jay Fiedler, at 69th. So we have 2 QB's.
RB: Csonka (18), Nathan (24 - my all time favorite Dolphin btw), Kiick (27), Ricky (40) and Mercury Morris (48) make the cut. Ronnie Brown is next at 68th
WR: Moore (9), Duper (11), Clayton (13) and Warfield (34) are the no-brainers, but then this gets surprising. Duriel Harris is 36th (told you it wasn't so crazy to consider him), Chambers is 50th. McDuffie comes in at 54 and Howard Twilley is a near-miss at 63rd as well.
O-line: The deepest position by far. Little, Webb, Kooch and Langer are 5th through 8th respectively. Stephenson and Newman are 14th and 15th. Surprise: Tim Ruddy (19). Norm Evans (23), Keith Sims (25), Roy Foster (28 - why does he keep getting left off these lists?), Jon Giesler (30 and underrated even during his career), Jeff Dellenbach (45, surprising) and another surprise, Vernon Carey at 49. Wayne Moore is 51st (and was a Hell of a player IMO). Jake Long is 53rd and Ronnie Lee 61st (he gets underrated too, played TE and RT in a long career). Excluding the near misses that's still 13 in the top 50.
TE: According to this, NO ONE belongs. Larry Seiple actually gets the highest at 89, and his punting had a lot to do with it.
DL: Taylor (2), Den Herder (16), Bowens (17), Stanfill (22), Betters (26); all easy picks. Bokamper (35) may not be a surprise, but Cross (39) and Starks (42) likely are. Fernandez rounds this out at 47. Gardener is next at 67th
LB: Zach (3), Wake (29), Buoniconti (31), Duhe (41). Larry Gordon (43 - told you he belongs! :-), Offerdahl (44) and Brudzinski (46) make it. Cox (52) doesn't. Kolen (55) and Rhone (56) are also near-misses
DB: Madison (12) leads this group. Anderson (20), Scott (21), Glenn Blackwood (32) and Foley (33 - why was he missing?), then Surtain (37 - surprising he's that low) and Curtis Johnson (38). Foley and Johnson clearly belonged on this list IMO. Brock Marion is the near miss at 57.
K and P: Garo is the top at 64. Olindo Mare is 88, and if you consider Seiple a punter, he's the highest at 89. Roby comes in at 118, Fields at 136.