This Should Frighten You All

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Re: This Should Frighten You All

Post by finfanatic on Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:26 pm

W1, I agree of ASJ at TE. He would definitely be worth a look, but I suspect he is out of the Phins price range.

On Gase and his system...I do think Gase thinks if his SYSTEM is executed properly, the system will work. The problem he has is where some of the players just do not function or are not willing to function like the system requires.

This is always the reason a HC says a player is performing well when we think they are stinking up the joint. For instance Jay Cutler. He ran the SYSTEM to Gase' satisfaction, but we all saw stinkitude from Cutler.

I mean Gase is not a blithering idiot and he THOUGHT Dallas Thomas could make the system function!

As you say W1, this season should tell us.

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Re: This Should Frighten You All

Post by HalCHorn on Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:06 pm

Cowboys fans might see some similarities with the Cowboys in Parcells' first two years, 2003 and 2004.

2003: unexpectedly in the playoffs with Quincy Carter starting all 16 games and, while not playing *great*, was serviceable. They were blown out by the eventual NFC champs in the first round after a surprising 10-6 in Parcells' first year.

2004: lost Carter in TC, had to sign over the hill Testeverde out of essential retirement, went 6-10 with him.

However, we don't have a Tony Romo developing at present who will be ready to take over in a year or two, and we have not drafted as well as Dallas did in Parcells' first two seasons, drafts that netted Newman, Witten (both still in the NFL 15 years later!), James, Jones, and Crayton.

Parcells ended up leaving after 2006, but he had the team primed to contend by that time. He had the QB of the future in place and two more good drafts (probably 2 HOF'ers out of the 4 drafts in Ware and Witten). They went 13-3 the year after he left.

The won/loss records after two years are the same, but Gase has a long way to go just to get us to where we will have that same wild card berth after year 4 IMO. And I doubt he's doing to get there with the bunch drafting our players that he has.

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Re: This Should Frighten You All

Post by JMP on Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:06 pm

white1 wrote:
Second, looking at free agency, there are younger acsending players like Trey Burton and Troy Niklas.  There are solid vets like Richard Rodgers and Niles Paul.  Ed Dickson is also an interesting possibility.  Then there's restricted FA Cameron Brate (who would be my choice).  I woud not touch Jimmy Graham because of age and price, and I'd ignore Tyler Eifert because of his injury history - but those guys are viable options as well.


Going back to the tight end discussion, because this is a key position need for the Phins.  

Apparently the Jets are on the brink of failing to retain Austin Seferian-Jenkins.  According to PFT, the team offered him a 2 year $8 million dollar deal which he rejected:  http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/18/jets-want-to-keep-austin-seferian-jenkins/

If he makes it to free agency, IMO he is worth pursuing.  His stats last year show potential, yet he probably hasn't done enough to totally break the bank either.  What do you guys think?

In for a quick post while recovering from the flu...

I purposely didn't list ASJ. I like him as a player, but with all his off-field issues, playing in Miami on a team with no leadership in the locker room and an ego-maniacal head coach seems like it would be a recipe for disaster IMO.

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Re: This Should Frighten You All

Post by white1 on Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:25 am

In for a quick post while recovering from the flu...

I purposely didn't list ASJ. I like him as a player, but with all his off-field issues, playing in Miami on a team with no leadership in the locker room and an ego-maniacal head coach seems like it would be a recipe for disaster IMO.

Feel better soon!

Interesting, I was not aware he had off field issues. Maybe explains why the Jets aren't throwing boatloads of money his way. Plus, rumor has it they will break the bank in an attempt to get Cousins. So they are probably limited in what they can spend elsewhere...

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Re: This Should Frighten You All

Post by finfanatic on Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:42 am

Hal, excellent comparison.

JMP - Be careful, this flu is decidedly deadly if not handled correctly.

W1 - I think I would rather break the bank on a proven QB than risk a draft pick on an unproven one. But there is so much that goes into making a QB successful, I do not know if just going out and paying mucho moolah for a QB that has performed in the past is correct either? I mean Cousins was in another system, for another HC, for another OC, on another team, with different skill players around him, with a different O line, etc....on and on it goes....

Does that translate to Cousins performing for the Jets the way he did for the Redskins? Who knows?

Football is a complex system, and trying to reduce the intricate inter-related co-dependent pieces to one linear component is an exercise in radical reductionism IMHO.

Place your bets.

Very Happy

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Re: This Should Frighten You All

Post by JMP on Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:03 pm

white1 wrote:
In for a quick post while recovering from the flu...

I purposely didn't list ASJ. I like him as a player, but with all his off-field issues, playing in Miami on a team with no leadership in the locker room and an ego-maniacal head coach seems like it would be a recipe for disaster IMO.

Feel better soon!

Interesting, I was not aware he had off field issues.  Maybe explains why the Jets aren't throwing boatloads of money his way.  Plus, rumor has it they will break the bank in an attempt to get Cousins.  So they are probably limited in what they can spend elsewhere...

Thanks for the well wishes...I seem to be better today.

ASJ had a couple of DUIs and was suspended early 2017 for violating the NFL substance abuse policy. He was in rehab for alcohol. Seems like he was a model citizen in NY, but Miami can be a scary place for someone with substance abuse problems.


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Re: This Should Frighten You All

Post by JMP on Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:11 pm

finfanatic wrote:Hal, excellent comparison.

JMP - Be careful, this flu is decidedly deadly if not handled correctly.

W1 - I think I would rather break the bank on a proven QB than risk a draft pick on an unproven one. But there is so much that goes into making a QB successful, I do not know if just going out and paying mucho moolah for a QB that has performed in the past is correct either? I mean Cousins was in another system, for another HC, for another OC, on another team, with different skill players around him, with a different O line, etc....on and on it goes....

Does that translate to Cousins performing for the Jets the way he did for the Redskins? Who knows?

Football is a complex system, and trying to reduce the intricate inter-related co-dependent pieces to one linear component is an exercise in radical reductionism IMHO.

Place your bets.

Very Happy

Thanks, FF. My two kids and I have the flu. Looks like the worst of it is past. My wife has managed to survive somehow! LOL

Anyway...on the QB question, I prefer to build through the draft. Veteran QBs can be very set in their ways and it can be difficult for them to learn a new system and adjust to a new head coach. Of course, if a team is set up to "win now", a vet QB could be the final piece.

My sense is Cousins is not a great fit for the Jets...they have a weak OL, questionable running game, and mediocre receiving corps. If they can build around him, maybe...but the team as it is built right now looks too broken for a quick fix.

With the Phins, I don't trust Gase to bring a young QB along - he's never done it before, and I have no reason to think it's something he's good at. Our best bet, while Gase is still here, is for Tannehill to become more than mediocre.

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