Trade For Brian Burns???

In light of all the talk about the weak D and lack of pass rush, and what I'm hearing about him being available, what do you guys think? He'd need to get paid right away and more than Wilkins, but given Burns' production at least that sort of pay would be more justified than shelling out what Wilkins wants. The D does need another pass rusher badly. The price would be steep of course but perhaps not as steep as we think. Next year's first and another pick or two should do it. It certainly makes a lot more sense than trading the same level of assets for Jonathan Taylor ever did even before Achane's breakout.

What say you guys, good idea or not?

i don't know. that's a lot of high draft assets to give up for a guy who would probably be a backup on the Phins. BACKUP you say? yes. Burns is the weakside LB for Carolina. He would be behind Phillips in Miami...unless you're proposing to trade Chubb or AVG, i', just not sure the value is there. and at a little under 250 lbs, i can't see Fangio using him at DE if he won't even try the 270 lbs Ogbah there. this team needs someone in the front 3 DL that can either suck up double teams or at least consistently beat an Olinemen to get some kind of pressure on opposing QBs. i don't think the Phins outside backers are the problem.

I'd pass. Not a need. I agree with nerc - we need to bolster the DL, not add another OLB. We have more than enough OLBs.

Plus, no more trading away high draft picks!

I agree with JMP. I wouldn't trade any picks in the first four rounds for anyone unless they came with a guaranteed Super Bowl win!!!

Especially somebody who is going to want to be WELL PAID.

They need to be thinking about signing Tua, Jackson, and maybe Wilkins?

finfanatic wrote:I agree with JMP. I wouldn't trade any picks in the first four rounds for anyone unless they came with a guaranteed Super Bowl win!!!

Especially somebody who is going to want to be WELL PAID.

They need to be thinking about signing Tua, Jackson, and maybe Wilkins?

I think Wilkins is gone. I don't think they sign Jackson to an impactful contract. I think they sign him to a 1 year deal to prove that this wasnt a fluke. I think that the defense needs a speedy quick twitch bulky MLB or 2. An everydown LB. I think we need a hybrid Elandon Roberts/Matt Milano guy. If you find someone like that trade the picks.

This team needs a MIL that can tackle and cover.

I honestly believe that Miami will be very active at the trade deadline.  

Cedric Wilson
Jeff Wilson Jr.
Christian Wilkins
Emannuel Ogbah

I think we really actively shop these players no matter the consequence to the cap situation.  For a long time we had cap issues and no talent.  Now we have too much talent that cant fit the scheme.  Time to get the talent that fits the scheme and lets worry about cap space next year.

At this point, there is no way around the cap issue at the end of the season.  We might as well load up for the run to the Championship first and re organize in the off season. We are so close and we are getting better and better but we lack a LB like Milano and a DT like Aaron Donald. We can do a lot by getting rid of those guys above.  I like Patrick Queen from Baltimore.  Probably come cheaper too.

I don't really see the Dolphins trading away any of their players right now.

There is no way we'd trade Christian Wilkins, not when we are trying to make a Super Bowl run. I realize he may not be re-signed, but DL is the thinnest position on the team, and trading away our best lineman would create a huge hole that would be impossible to fill in-season.

I'd say the same for Ogbah - he has become a key piece in the rotation over the last couple of weeks and has started making plays. No way I'd trade him now.

Ced Wilson and Jeff Wilson are both tradable pieces, but I'd rather keep them as veteran depth instead of trading them for 6th or 7th round picks, which is really all we'd get for them. There's also a chance that Jeff Wilson becomes a key part of the offense with Achane sidelined.

I'm not much of a Patrick Queen fan, but the Ravens are trying to win a Super Bowl too, and if he's a good player why would they trade him now?

I wouldn't mind taking a look at LB Josey Jewell if the Broncos would trade him. He'd likely be cheap, and he's a solid player who has played for Fangio. But that's what I'd do - look at teams like the Broncos that are struggling and see if you can maybe grab a good player for cheap. The Giants don't really have anyone I'd want, but that's another team to look at. But any trade would have to make the Dolphins better, not worse.

JMP wrote:I don't really see the Dolphins trading away any of their players right now.

There is no way we'd trade Christian Wilkins, not when we are trying to make a Super Bowl run.  I realize he may not be re-signed, but DL is the thinnest position on the team, and trading away our best lineman would create a huge hole that would be impossible to fill in-season.  

I'd say the same for Ogbah - he has become a key piece in the rotation over the last couple of weeks and has started making plays.  No way I'd trade him now.

Ced Wilson and Jeff Wilson are both tradable pieces, but I'd rather keep them as veteran depth instead of trading them for 6th or 7th round picks, which is really all we'd get for them.  There's also a chance that Jeff Wilson becomes a key part of the offense with Achane sidelined.

I'm not much of a Patrick Queen fan, but the Ravens are trying to win a Super Bowl too, and if he's a good player why would they trade him now?

I wouldn't mind taking a look at LB Josey Jewell if the Broncos would trade him.  He'd likely be cheap, and he's a solid player who has played for Fangio.  But that's what I'd do - look at teams like the Broncos that are struggling and see if you can maybe grab a good player for cheap. The Giants don't really have anyone I'd want, but that's another team to look at.  But any trade would have to make the Dolphins better, not worse.

I agree and disagree. I am looking short term and long term. Wilkins is the only trade piece of value. He is a better player but beyond this year he isn't going to be a player that commands the money he wants. If I could get something out of him now then why not. Is he impacting this defense now? No, not so much. Is the defense as a whole playing that way? No!

Same thing for Ogbah. High priced for low production. Interesting that when Phillips cant play, Fangio puts AVG out there. And AVG balled out. Ogbah is nothing but high priced quality depth. Why not get him outta here now than later when it really hurts. He's not playing in front of AVG and certainly not in front of Phillips or Chubb.

We are talking about 3 guys that dont even have enough snap counts to see what they really can do. Get rid of them

Right now, in-season, it's all about the short-term for me. I don't give a damn about the 2024 salary cap or Wilkins's contract - I am all in to win now. And winning now means keeping our best defensive player. Wilkins cannot be replaced right now, and if he's gone he'd leave a huge gaping hole on the DL that could quite literally destroy our season. And all for what? Maybe a 2nd or 3rd round pick? Who knows what will happen with Wilkins in the offseason, and right now I really don't care - not when we're sitting on top of the division at 4-1.

As for Ogbah, we will need him at some point this season. He's playing good now in a limited role, and there's absolutely no reason to trade quality depth for what would likely be a late-round pick. I'm not even sure we could trade him this season, given possible cap implications. After the season there is an easy out in his contract - that's the time to make a move.

Trading the Wilsons is also pointless IMO - I'd rather have the experienced depth than 6th or 7th round picks.

I know hindsight's 20/20. I totally get that there was no way of knowing that Phillips AND Chubb AND AVG would ALL be hurt and that the first two would essentially be rendered useless for at least the first half of next season at best.

But man oh man what would you rather have right now, the first round pick (which Grier will throw away on yet another CB bust no doubt) or Burns? Now there's no way the Fins could get him even if the wanted. He'll either be re-signed by the Panthers or hit FA and be unaffordable

Burns hasn't really been all that productive - he has had double-digit sacks only once (12.5 in 2022) and is coming off an 8-sack, 18-QB hits season...not exactly an elite pass rusher. I'd take him for the right price, but he'll likely be WAY overpaid in free agency.

JMP wrote:Burns hasn't really been all that productive - he has had double-digit sacks only once (12.5 in 2022) and is coming off an 8-sack, 18-QB hits season...not exactly an elite pass rusher.  I'd take him for the right price, but he'll likely be WAY overpaid in free agency.

So in other words...another Bradley Chubb?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ChubBr00.htm

BTW rookie edge rushers not named Micah Parsons haven't exactly been tearing it up sacks-wise the past few drafts. Just sayin'.

DolFan 316 wrote:

JMP wrote:Burns hasn't really been all that productive - he has had double-digit sacks only once (12.5 in 2022) and is coming off an 8-sack, 18-QB hits season...not exactly an elite pass rusher.  I'd take him for the right price, but he'll likely be WAY overpaid in free agency.

So in other words...another Bradley Chubb?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ChubBr00.htm

BTW rookie edge rushers not named Micah Parsons haven't exactly been tearing it up sacks-wise the past few drafts. Just sayin'.

But we already have Chubb, even though he's injured. Why spend all that money on another edge rusher like that?

I'd prefer to spend the money on AVG, who will be cheaper than Burns, and then add a rookie or lower-tier free agent pass rusher to fill in while Phillips and Chubb recover.

JMP wrote:But we already have Chubb, even though he's injured.  Why spend all that money on another edge rusher like that?

I'd prefer to spend the money on AVG, who will be cheaper than Burns, and then add a rookie or lower-tier free agent pass rusher to fill in while Phillips and Chubb recover.

That's actually my point. Could've traded for Burns, then extended him right away to save cap space. Then he's already here to fill in while Chubb and Phillips recover. No reason AVG couldn't be re-signed as well in that scenario. I have to believe Chubb and Phillips will start next season on IR anyway.

The Fins will HAVE to bring in at LEAST two new edge rushers regardless if AVG is re-signed or not. Ogbah's a goner. Don't forget Cam Goode is injured too.

DolFan 316 wrote:

JMP wrote:But we already have Chubb, even though he's injured.  Why spend all that money on another edge rusher like that?

I'd prefer to spend the money on AVG, who will be cheaper than Burns, and then add a rookie or lower-tier free agent pass rusher to fill in while Phillips and Chubb recover.

That's actually my point. Could've traded for Burns, then extended him right away to save cap space. Then he's already here to fill in while Chubb and Phillips recover. No reason AVG couldn't be re-signed as well in that scenario. I have to believe Chubb and Phillips will start next season on IR anyway.

The Fins will HAVE to bring in at LEAST two new edge rushers regardless if AVG is re-signed or not. Ogbah's a goner. Don't forget Cam Goode is injured too.

I get your point, but Burns is too expensive with Chubb already signed to a big deal, Phillips likely getting a big deal in the next year or two, and AVG hopefully coming back. Can't tie up that much money one 4 pass rushers. I guess you could replace AVG with Burns, but I'd rather have AVG.

Plus, I would not have wanted to trade a high pick for Burns - no reason for it.

JMP wrote:I get your point, but Burns is too expensive with Chubb already signed to a big deal, Phillips likely getting a big deal in the next year or two, and AVG hopefully coming back.  Can't tie up that much money one 4 pass rushers.  I guess you could replace AVG with Burns, but I'd rather have AVG.

Plus, I would not have wanted to trade a high pick for Burns - no reason for it.

I would rather not, but I just do not trust Grier to draft anybody good with that pick. Or at least, no player who'd be better than Burns.

Oh well, as I said a few posts ago it's all moot now (sighs).

IMO X Howard probably won't be on the team next season.

He has been great, but he's nearing the end of his career, as evidenced by the plays he has been giving up, and the constant nagging injuries that are stealing his speed and explosiveness. I have loved watching him in Miami, but I think it's time to move on.

Unless Cam Smith can flourish under our new defensive coaching staff (and it's likely he can - he flashed talent in camp but landed in Fangio dog house and never got out) - I'd use one asset on boundary corner. Most likely a trade, kind of like what we did to get Ramsey.

Don't really know who's out there, I'd probably look at the teams that just fired their head coach and are starting over, typically they will trade away assets to help shape the roster rebuild to match the systems they are bringing in.

white1 wrote:IMO X Howard probably won't be on the team next season.  

He has been great, but he's nearing the end of his career, as evidenced by the plays he has been giving up, and the constant nagging injuries that are stealing his speed and explosiveness.  I have loved watching him in Miami, but I think it's time to move on.

Unless Cam Smith can flourish under our new defensive coaching staff (and it's likely he can - he flashed talent in camp but landed in Fangio dog house and never got out) - I'd use one asset on boundary corner.  Most likely a trade, kind of like what we did to get Ramsey.

Don't really know who's out there, I'd probably look at the teams that just fired their head coach and are starting over, typically they will trade away assets to help shape the roster rebuild to match the systems they are bringing in.

Yep, it would be great to bring in a vet to replace X, via trade (but not a first) or free agency. If the Rams (foolishly) decide to let Ahkello Witherspoon test the free agent market, I'd be all over him...but he could be very expensive.

Yep, it would be great to bring in a vet to replace X, via trade (but not a first) or free agency. If the Rams (foolishly) decide to let Ahkello Witherspoon test the free agent market, I'd be all over him...but he could be very expensive.

We are in "win now" mode. I'd expect the team to go through cap gymnastics to build on the current core, and plan for a 2 year window to try and make it to the Superbowl.

If it doesn't work, cleaning it up won't be their problem... highly likely Ross will clean house and Grier, McDaniel, Tua all leave together.

Just say NO!! to trading away picks for players.

I know Grier HAS TO trade to get any talent on the team as he couldn't draft well if he had access to the NFL Hall Of Fame list for 2030 and beyond....

But his pattern has to change or this team is going to fritter away any chance at being a SB competitor IMO. They may already have done that, but...

A team has to re-sign their guys (Tua (maybe), Wilkins, AVG...) and then bring in cheap rookie talent in the draft to be competive and use free agency to fill in a spot (or two) where a draft pick didn't work out or a key veteran is injured or slipping.

Grier seems to think a team full of free agents and trading away picks for proven players is the way to build a team.

It ain't IMHO!

Grier is on the cusp of an off season where the moves he makes or more likely DOES NOT MAKE... are going to determine if the current regime in Miami will succeed or follow the old well-known, well-travelled circular route down the old porcelain vortex IMO.

It is the usual, normal way things go in Miami and if Grier continues to follow his usual pattern, more than likely IMO.

So, stop trading away picks you need to get cheap talent on the roster.
Re-sign your KEY guys. And then draft well.

Grier flunks number one on that list, ain't real good at identifying his KEY guys, and his drafting just ain't up to snuff IMO.

I think the only way to break this pattern would seem to be to get rid of Grier. And that ain't happening IMO.

So prepare yourselves my phellow long-suffering Phin Phans, as the Phins go into a vitally important off season wherein hangs the future of the franchise, in the hands of a man who routinely makes bad decisions!

I actually agree with you FF. It's that that I trust Grier in the draft as far as I can throw him--and I'm 50 with metal rods in my back.

Remember back in 2020 when Grier all but vowed that FINALLY this team would be built through the draft and the days of throwing money at every other big name FA were over? And then Tyreek came along and he just couldn't help himself and the next thing I know he's trading for Chubb, etc. and now this roster looks about the same as when Tannenbaum was in charge of it!

I also agree that this business of constantly letting the tiny handful of draft picks who DO work out walk away after their rookie deals has to stop. Even the trades of Minkah and Tunsil look stupid now, especially since the Texans have gone from bottom of the barrel to playoff game winner with a hotshot rookie QB in the time it was supposed to take for Grier to have the Fins be that team--and they were supposed to be the LOSERS of the Tunsil Trade!

DolFan 316 wrote:now this roster looks about the same as when Tannenbaum was in charge of it!

Couldn't disagree more. I'd say that the 2023 roster was the best the Dolphins have had in decades. Tannenbaum was garbage.

Grier has had plenty of great draft picks, most recently Achane. Sure, he's had a lot of misses too - just like every GM that's ever lived. He's also added great free agents and pulled off some big trades. The Tunsil trade was EPIC - the haul we got in that trade was outstanding.

JMP wrote:

DolFan 316 wrote:now this roster looks about the same as when Tannenbaum was in charge of it!

Couldn't disagree more.  I'd say that the 2023 roster was the best the Dolphins have had in decades.  Tannenbaum was garbage.

I was talking in terms of a lot of overpaid players and the team now being in the same cap situation as when Tannenbaum was in charge that *some* people (coughGriercough) insisted would never happen again because they'd learned their lesson. The Hill, Chubb and Ramsey trades. The massive overpays for Byron Jones and Cedric Wilson. Ogbah actually having the highest cap number on this season's team. Bringing in Armstead when everybody knew he was a walking ER visit. And so on.

The cap situation's CERTAINLY not because Grier threw money at his own draft picks. Now that he kinda needs to, he probably can't afford to!

JMP wrote:The Tunsil trade was EPIC - the haul we got in that trade was outstanding.

You mean this haul?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TunsLa00.htm

September 1, 2019: Traded by Dolphins with 2020 4th round pick (111th overall subsequently traded , Solomon Kindley), 2021 6th round pick (202nd overall subsequently traded , Chris Evans) and Kenny Stills to Texans for 2020 1st round pick (26th overall subsequently traded , Jordan Love), 2021 1st round pick (3rd overall subsequently traded , Trey Lance), 2021 2nd round pick (36th overall, Jevon Holland), Johnson Bademosi and Julie'n Davenport

Holland is the only player still on this team directly from that trade I mean yeah, Grier used some of those picks to trade for other picks but all I'm getting out of this is that he traded with the Packers for a QB who won a playoff game before Tua. At any rate 4 seasons after that trade which was supposed to propel the Fins to contender status and leave the Texans crippled for years, THEY'VE been the team who won a playoff game with a first round pick at QB while the Fins "ascended' to a slightly higher level of purgatory.