The Chop Robinson thread

[JMP]

Lats night, I compared Chop favorably to the Rams' rookie stud Byron Young.  I still stand by that, but I kept seeing Micah Parsons mentioned in online comps.  And looking a little deeper, it's actually a very good comp - even if you ignore the Penn State connection.

Check out these pre-draft measurements and college stats:

Parsons: 6'3", 246 pounds, 4.36 40 (I believe that was at his Pro Day), 1.59 10-yard split, 34" vertical, 10.5" broad jump, 31.5" arms, 6.5 career college sacks (didn't play junior year due to Covid)

Robinson: 6'3", 253 pounds, 4.48 40, 1.54 10-yard split, 34.5" vertical, 10.8" broad jump, 32.5" arms, 11.5 career college sacks

So Chop is actually bigger and more athletic (if slower in the 40) than Parsons, and was more productive in college.  This is not to say that Robinson will ever be as good as Parsons, but I point all of this out to go against the narrative that is out there that Chop is too small and wasn't productive in college.

Now, me personally...I do like to see a pass rusher have a lot of sacks in college.  But when you look at Robinson, being just 21 years old, you have to look at what he can be, not what he was in college.  I really do think the ceiling is somewhere close to Parsons.  Robinson has some rawness to him, but he'll be playing in an aggressive, multiple defense that suits his skillset, and he'll be learning from three great veteran pass rushers.

Last night I liked the pick - today I love it.

One other note: IMO, the overall BPA at 21 was a CB - either Quinyon Mitchell or Terrion Arnold, take your pick.  But Robinson was the BPA at the Dolphins biggest position of need.  So yes, Chop may have been a consolation prize after missing out on Turner and Verse, but the fit is obvious and he fills a really big hole on the defense.  ANd it will be nice to have some speed on the defensive side of the ball for a change!

[finskev]

Little bit of useless info on Mr Chop, His First Name is Demeioun, He was 14 lbs at birth and was given the nickname of Pork Chop which was shorten to Chop in Middle School, I know You all were wondering about the Name.:

[JMP]

Little bit of useless info on Mr Chop, His First Name is Demeioun, He was 14 lbs at birth and was given the nickname of Pork Chop which was shorten to Chop in Middle School, I know You all were wondering about the Name.:  

That's awesome! Welcome to Miami, Pork Chop!

14 pounds...his mother deserves an award. My God!

[CarsonChris]

When I watch highlights one thing stands out, Abdul Carter!

[JMP]

When I watch highlights one thing stands out, Abdul Carter!

Yeah, Carter's a good one - but he doesn't get a lot of sacks either. Has to be something with that Penn State scheme...hard to understand why guys with elite skills sets like Parsons, Robinson and Abdul just don't put up big numbers.

But watch Chop...his first step is insanely fast, and the way he moves is freakish - he may even have some Cam Wake (another Penn State edge who didn't have big college numbers) in him the way he moves and twists his body. Watch Penn State games and you'll see Chop in the backfield on almost every pass play.

[JMP]

The way I look at it is this: we picked in the back half of the first round and we got a very young, developing player that plays a premium position and has elite athletic ability. Really, you can't ask for more than that when picking in the 20s - especially the way this particular draft played out.

[finfanatic]

If Chop improves, then this will be a good pick. He was the 4th best pass rusher though IMO.

I just wonder if Grier turned down a chance to trade down? Surely the Lions wanted to get up there to take a CB?

Maybe the price was too high?

[JMP]

If Chop improves, then this will be a good pick. He was the 4th best pass rusher though IMO.

In his own words he needs to use his hands better, and he's been working on that. I agree that he was the 4th best pass rusher (and that's how he was drafted), but I don't think the difference between them is that big and ultimately Chop might have the most upside. Certainly Latu is the most developed of the 4 in terms of his current pass rush ability (he's also the biggest), but I'd say Chop is the most athletically gifted by a big margin.

[JMP]

Hussam Patel
@HussamPatel

Chop Robinson’s advanced analytics of EDGE in this draft class:

Quick pressure %: 1st (13%)
Havoc%: 1st (11.3%)
Time to pressure: 2nd (2.28s)
Combine score: 3rd (84%)
Pressure rate: 3rd (18.7%)
True Pressure: 4th (24%)

PRWR: 20.9% [PRWR = Pass Rush Win Rate]
True PRWR: 26.7%

That’s an impact player

10:24 AM · Apr 26, 2024

I don't claim to know what all those stats mean or how they are determined, but I do know that being ranked top 4 in all those categories is a good thing!

[mercury22nathan]

I can’t say the Chop pick has me real excited, but i'm not gonna kill it. I do think there were better players available (specifically the next 2 picks in Mitchell and Thomas). I understand the need at DE, but I still have concerns with this pick. I see this as the anti-Zach Thomas. Zach was slow and small but was a football player and produced at every level. Chop is fast, athletic freak and has a frame to get even bigger and stronger, yet he hasn’t really produced on the level that his physical prowess would indicate. He started 10 games this past season and only posted 15 tackles – that is hard to do…as in play so much yet have so few tackles (for comparison Latu 12 games and 49 tackles and Turner 14 games and 52 tackles). If you watch his tape, he can be very disruptive, but very often doesn’t not make/finish the play. He has a real knack for getting to the ball carrier/QB, but bouncing off and letting another defender seal the deal. He does have a high motor and uses his athletic superiority to beat less than average players, but struggles to make tackles and bring guys to the ground (which will be fine against Joe Flacco and maybe old Aaron Rodgers, but not so much against the likes of Josh Allen, Pat Mahomes and CJ Stroud). It kind of reminds of the when the Dolphins said that sacks weren’t important cause getting pressure was enough – well, except the QB escapes the pressure and then makes a downfield play. And what little production Chop did have was against the likes of schedule cupcakes Delaware, Massachusetts and Rutgers. Note absolutely nothing last year against Ohio St, Michigan and Northwestern with just an assist against Michigan St. He had 1 sack against Iowa and the rest of his measly 4 sacks were against Massachusetts and Rutgers – guys who will be working at careers other than football.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/demeioun-robinson-1/gamelog/2023/

And let’s not forget he was carted off the field with a head injury against Ohio St – so he fits the bill as far as Grier loving injured players.

So everybody wringing their hands over the need for a fill-in with Chubb and Phillips injuries…this ain’t it. Chop is not being brought to Miami to fill their outside pass rushing/OLB role. Chop is being brought in to provide more athleticism from the end of the DL. This is more of a replacement for what Wilkins was supposed to be than what Phillips and Chubb are (remember Wilkins didn’t show much pass rush until this past year). Chop’s first year at Maryland as an OLB was a disappointment despite him being a highly touted starter. It wasn’t until his transfer to Penn St and move to a reserve DE in his second year that he was able to use his forward-moving speed to create pressure against lumbering o-linemen. With Tart manning the middle and Sieler on one side, this is about an athletic DE while Chubb/Phillips man the OLB pass rush roles.

Asked if they see Robinson as an outside linebacker or defensive end or both, Grier said: “Some of versatility we liked. You see rushes all over, inside, over the center two point, three point. That versatility drew us to him initially.”

Though Bradley Chubb and Jaelan Phillips are coming off major injuries, Grier said that didn’t influence the selection of Robinson. More so, “it was adding one of the best players in the draft, especially rushing the passer, the ability to rush with four and not blitz every down creates an advantage for the defense,” he said.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article288035025.html

Note the anticipation of him moving inside on obvious passing downs. He does not have the lateral skills and awareness to be a fulltime OLB. Chop is a D-linemen and will probably have to bulk up a bit more (hopefully without losing his forward burst) to hold up at the point of attack. And note the desire to get at the QB with four rushers (Chop being on the line) without sending an additional LBer.

He said he hasn’t spoken at length to new defensive coordinator Anthony Weaver but said “the defense” that Weaver plans to use “is the same [we] use at Penn State, putting me at nose and on the edge.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article287351025.html

I’m not saying this won’t work or that he’ll be a bust, but I see him handling more of a disrupter/occupier at DE role (and hopefully providing more consistent pressure than Wilkins did) with the ability to beat o-linemen 1-on-1 while freeing Chubb and Phillips to be the true pass rushers getting the sacks off the outside edges. That’s not say he won’t rush the passer, but he’s gonna have to do more than that as he’s shown on the college level he is not currently able to accumulate sacks in a pure pass rush role despite his athleticism. He’s a work in progress, but the coaches are going to have to refine his pass rush moves beyond just being straight quicker off the snap (pro offenses can account for that). In the end, the coaches are going to have to find a way to increase his finish and production cause they can’t afford another defensive pick where we’re all told to wait for his development year and after year (Iggy, Cam Smith, Tindall). This is gonna be boom or yawn…hopefully he explodes in a Danielle Hunter type DE role cause this defense needs that.

[JMP]

So everybody wringing their hands over the need for a fill-in with Chubb and Phillips injuries…this ain’t it.  Chop is not being brought to Miami to fill their outside pass rushing/OLB role.  Chop is being brought in to provide more athleticism from the end of the DL.  This is more of a replacement for what Wilkins was supposed to be than what Phillips and Chubb are (remember Wilkins didn’t show much pass rush until this past year).

I disagree. Chop may play DE in some pass rush situations, but IMO he's an OLB in this scheme - think Ohweh and Van Noy with the Ravens last year, two athletic players that are roughly the same size as Chop. His speed and athleticism make him an ideal fit as a 3-4 OLB. He's way too light to be a 3-4 DE, but will probably line up some at end in 4-3 formations. I see guys like Neville Gallimore and Jonathan Harris as the Wilkins replacements.

Weaver used a rotation at OLB with the Ravens, to keep players fresh. I expect we'll see that once we have all 4 of our top edges healthy. There will also be times when all 4 are on the field at once on pass downs...maybe Chubb and Shaq outside with Jae and Chop rushing from inside, something like that.

[DolFan 316]

If Chop improves, then this will be a good pick. He was the 4th best pass rusher though IMO.

I just wonder if Grier turned down a chance to trade down? Surely the Lions wanted to get up there to take a CB?

Maybe the price was too high?

The way I see it, nobody's bashing whoever took the 4th best WR or the 4th best OT in this draft. Why??? Some drafts are just deeper than others. Really, the only position you don't want to be stuck taking the 4th best guy at is QB and even then it worked out fairly well for this very same team in '83. Just sayin'

Its getting more and more obvious that Grier tried a trade down with the Lions but just won't say (for obvious reasons) and the asking price of 61 was too much for their liking. A damn shame, but it takes two to tango. Robinson could be the next Parsons, or the next Oweh. But at least I'm not telling you he's a surefre bust like I've had to do so many times before. That's progress at least

[JMP]

Robinson could be the next Parsons, or the next Oweh. But at least I'm not telling you he's a surefre bust like I've had to do so many times before. That's progress at least

I am not lying when I say that this makes me feel even better about the pick.  

And thinking about it more, I think the way Dallas uses Parsons is probably a good way to envision how the Phins might use Chop.  Weaver is all about being multiple, and Chop is a guy that he can move all over the place the way the Cowboys do with Parsons.  So we may see him at OLB, ILB, DE, and even dropping in coverage on occasion.  He should be comfortable in all those roles because he was asked to do similar things at PSU.  Basically, the idea is to take advantage of his explosiveness and athleticism in every way possible.

[DolFan 316]

I get what Merc is saying, I really do. Oweh was the first player comp that came to my mind. Being more athlete than football player is why I never took Robinson in any of my mocks, and why I was so depressed/frustrated last night after Turner and Verse were snatched right out from under this team's nose. I became so obsessed with them I forgot about Robinson completely TBH. The only Robinson I was even thinking about was Darius from Mizzou.

HOWEVER...I don't believe Grier is saying about Robinson and the pick for one millisecond. He just doesn't want to come across as desperate and having had to "settle". You picked the guy, everybody knows why you picked him, there's no more need for smokescreens, just be honest about it. Or at least as honest as a GM can be.

After the Iggy and Smith fiascos, Mitchell COULDN'T be the pick there--and I've said all along he's legit. Not when the trenches need attention in the worst way. Not when you're facing the very real prospect of Phillips not being ready for the opener and Chubb missing the whole season. Not when DolFans on Reddit are about to riot because the pick wasn't O-line. You just can't ignore obvious glaring gaping holes because so and so "was the best player on our board". This team's made that draft mistake far too many times over the last 25-30 years. And it's not like Robinson is Iggy or Ezukanma and had no business being taken anywhere near that range--he was the consensus best edge left. If Grier was wrong about him then so was everybody else. As for Barton, a starting guard can still be had today, the last time I checked the rest of the draft hasn't been cancelled. (Although I'm legit shocked the woke mob hasn't tried like they have with everything else.)

[JMP]

Great post, 316.

I had actually forgotten about Chop too, after having him as the pick in my first mock. I was locked in on Verse, especially when it looked like he might actually make it to 21.

[DolFan 316]

Also consider this: if Robinson's not the pick there then Grier's stuck hoping Kneeland falls to 55. If that doesn't happen then we're talking about having to draft a Cameron Goode bottom of the roster/practice squad level player just to have enough warm bodies at edge. IDK about you, but I'd rather have Robinson (who at least COULD work out) than a 5th-7th round project. And Grier could still get another edge guy in that range if he wants, and if so at least now that guy doesn't have to start or take on a huge role right away. After this next pick depth guys will be the only ones being drafted anyway.

[HalCHorn]

Dallas ended up doing OT and EDGE, only in that order, reversing the EDGE/OT order, and ended up with Guyton and Kneeland.  We will see how it shakes out, but I like our OT choice over anyone who was there at 21 for sure. I mentioned I'll take Paul over Guyton anyway.  We could have gone Braswell or Kneeland in round 2 if we hadn't taken Robinson, and I like Kneeland a lot, but Robinson appears to have a higher ceiling.  

I can't really complain, after two days, except for the lack of a third rounder.  Seeing all that value (and all the value still there!  Booker, Franklin, etc) makes not picking until 158 tough to take.

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