OL: That old dreaded feeling is starting... Again!

by finfanatic Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:16 pm

Anyone else starting to think the O-line could be a problem again this year?

It is early I know, but I am hearing the Phins D is making this O-line look like last year's bums!

Maybe things will turn around, but there seems to be a big need (hope) that Dieter will return at Center?

Apparently Williams ain't performing like they thought he would?

As we saw last year, a bad Oline or pissoir poor Oline play will destroy a season.

It is early I will admit, but...

I am getting that same old feeling again.

Shocked

by **JMP** Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:42 pm

I actually feel good about the OL. From everything I'm hearing, Eich has been excellent at LG and even Jackson has gotten some praise at RT.

I've been hearing good things about Williams at C all along, although today was apparently a little rough as it was the first day with real contact. You have to expect that a well-tuned experienced D is going to get some licks in against a new offense and new OL.

I like that we have the starting 5 set, which will give those guys plenty of time to gel. It sounds like Armstead and Williams have both been like extra coaches on the field, taking the time to help out and teach the younger players. I think that's really the key: this group of OL need to build chemistry, and it sounds like that is happening.

EDIT: The defense was apparently working on some of their "exotic" blitz packages today, which could explain why the OL struggled. That is to be expected, and hopefully in the long run these reps will make the OL better.

by CarsonChris Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:33 pm

The good news is Tua managed the collapsing pocket properly getting the ball out on time and leading the receivers into chunk yardage gains.

by **JMP** Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:21 pm

CarsonChris wrote:The good news is Tua managed the collapsing pocket properly getting the ball out on time and leading the receivers into chunk yardage gains.

Absolutely. That's a great sign moving forward.

I also love hearing about how open the receivers are getting. McDaniel knows how to scheme...not like the Mickey Mouse crap we saw under Flores, where the routes were hot garbage and no one was ever open. It's amazing what real coaching can do.

by **JMP** Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:51 am

Daniel Oyefusi
@DanielOyefusi

Dolphins OL Matt Applebaum on Connor Williams’ transition to center: “Up to this point, I think he’s been kicking ass.”

10:12 AM · Aug 3, 2022

by **JMP** Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:38 pm

Williams with a couple of bad snaps today. He worked on snaps after practice with Tua.

That's to be expected when learning a new position, but he needs to get it fixed ASAP. Glad to hear he's putting the work in. I think he'll be fine - just gotta get those reps.

by DolFan 316 Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:01 pm

JMP wrote:Williams with a couple of bad snaps today. He worked on snaps after practice with Tua.

That's to be expected when learning a new position, but he needs to get it fixed ASAP. Glad to hear he's putting the work in. I think he'll be fine - just gotta get those reps.

I'm with FF, it seems that my worst fears about the O-line and the center position are coming true already pale

Zach Tom would've solved that issue. Just sayin'. No, I'm not letting it go.

by mercury22nathan Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:10 am

DolFan 316 wrote:Zach Tom would've solved that issue. Just sayin'. No, I'm not letting it go.

maybe. looks like the Packers are giving Tom the Eichenberg treatment of trying to find a position for him. he's been tried at 4 of the 5 OL positions, mostly running with the 2nd and 3rd team. he was unable to unseat 2nd year C Josh Myers (who had an injury plagued rookie season last year) so their finally giving Tom a chance with starters at RT due to injuries to the anticipated day 1 starters.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2022/8/2/23289022/green-bay-packers-practice-news-notes-8-2-zach-tom-offensive-line-right-tackle-2022-training-camp

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/latest-position-gives-rookie-zach-tom-chance-to-start

P.S. - DF, i was in Nashville last week and my uncle asked me to drive him to Covington and since i knows peeps in Memphis i agreed. at least i got some good bbq out of the deal.

by DolFan 316 Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:07 am

mercury22nathan wrote:P.S. - DF, i was in Nashville last week and my uncle asked me to drive him to Covington and since i knows peeps in Memphis i agreed. at least i got some good bbq out of the deal.

You guys must not really like me if you keep coming to Memphis and not even telling me Crying or Very sad

j/k I get it. People are busy and have only a limited time to do what they need to do. Hell, I live an hour and a half away from my BFF and haven't actually seen him in person in a decade.

by DolFan 316 Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:19 am

mercury22nathan wrote:
DolFan 316 wrote:Zach Tom would've solved that issue. Just sayin'. No, I'm not letting it go.

maybe. looks like the Packers are giving Tom the Eichenberg treatment of trying to find a position for him. he's been tried at 4 of the 5 OL positions, mostly running with the 2nd and 3rd team. he was unable to unseat 2nd year C Josh Myers (who had an injury plagued rookie season last year) so their finally giving Tom a chance with starters at RT due to injuries to the anticipated day 1 starters.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2022/8/2/23289022/green-bay-packers-practice-news-notes-8-2-zach-tom-offensive-line-right-tackle-2022-training-camp

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/latest-position-gives-rookie-zach-tom-chance-to-start

I absolutely despise this modern approach of "force every O-lineman to play multiple positions but never let him actually get good at any of them" garbage. IMO that's a huge reason this O-line was so awful last season. Especially when these same people are all, "So and so's arms are too short to play tackle." So which is it? Can he play there or can't he? Don't give me the excuse of "well, if so and so gets hurt then we'll have someone ready" because that's a big, fat lie. The rookie you made play RT for a week in camp won't be any more ready to do it midway through the season then if you'd just let him stay at guard and develop into at least a competent player. I'll put it another way: imagine this team drafting Jake Long #1 overall and then announcing that they'll try him at every O-line spot in camp, or paying Incognito a ton of money and then say they're moving him to LT after being a guard his whole career. It's just insane, idiotic and imbecilic Evil or Very Mad

But at least the second article did say Tom might start, so I'm taking it to mean he's not exactly stinking it up. Also (and I know it's not your fault) that second link had another link I couldn't avoid seeing titled, "Watson Stays Patient, Positive Through Pain". This is why a barf/vomit emoticon option is desperately needed here.

Also, the first link mentions that Doubs continues to shine, meaning that even if you can argue Tom wouldn't have been the right pick, Ezukanwa had better be DAMN good to justify Grier taking him over Doubs.

by **JMP** Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:46 pm

I think you really have to cross-train OL at different positions. You can only keep so many linemen on the roster, and they can't all be active on gameday. So you need to make sure you have a legit backup plan if an injury occurs during a game. Guys that can play multiple positions become invaluable in those situations.

That said, constantly shuffling everyone around creates a disaster. But you do need to know who can play where if and when the need arises.

by **JMP** Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:50 pm

A couple of high snaps for Williams today. Gotta correct that.

by **JMP** Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:03 am

Supposedly Connor Williams really held his own against the great Vita Vea yesterday. Some wins, some losses - but going against one of the league's top DTs, I'd consider that an overall win for Williams. And as far as I heard, no bad snaps yesterday.

Tua said he has been working with Williams on snap placement...so it sounds like the issue hasn't necessarily been bad snaps, but where the ball is snapped. That should be easily correctable with continued communication and reps. Let's hope he turns into a good one - having legit center would be a huge positive for this offense.

by DolFan 316 Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:17 am

JMP wrote:Supposedly Connor Williams really held his own against the great Vita Vea yesterday. Some wins, some losses - but going against one of the league's top DTs, I'd consider that an overall win for Williams. And as far as I heard, no bad snaps yesterday.

Tua said he has been working with Williams on snap placement...so it sounds like the issue hasn't necessarily been bad snaps, but where the ball is snapped. That should be easily correctable with continued communication and reps. Let's hope he turns into a good one - having legit center would be a huge positive for this offense.

My younger nephew needs to find out how Tua and Williams are working this issue out so he can do the same with the center on his 8th grade team instead of resorting to helmet grabbing and angry confrontation.

by **JMP** Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:43 am

DolFan 316 wrote:

My younger nephew needs to find out how Tua and Williams are working this issue out so he can do the same with the center on his 8th grade team instead of resorting to helmet grabbing and angry confrontation.

Ha! Communication is the key! Cool

by **JMP** Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:26 am

So Williams apparently with a couple of bad snaps today - one low and one high. Still a work in progress. Neutral

by **JMP** Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:22 am

Not sure if there is any truth at all to this, but there are rumblings that once Deiter is 100% healthy (he's already practicing), he will take over the starting center job and Williams will slide to LG. Again, just a rumor - but definitely something to watch.

by finfanatic Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:16 pm

We should know after this third preseason game.

The Phins will cut dreck and bring in new dreck on the Oline. If they start TRADING for another team's Oline dreck, we officially be IN TROUBLE I am thinking.

If any of the starters go down, the season could be over IMO.

I heard a rumor they tried to trade Gesicki to the Bears for picks and OT Tevin Jenkins?!
The Bears said Nope.

by **JMP** Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:28 pm

I don't believe for a second that the Dolphins are actively shopping Gesicki. I'm sure teams have inquired, but I don't see any chance the Phins will trade a receiving threat like Gesicki. All this "but he can't block" talk is nonsense - McDaniel will use him to exploit weaknesses in the defense, and he is going to be a primary red zone target. Trading him would be foolish.

As for the OL, I am overjoyed at how good the starters have looked in pass pro - it is literally night and day since last season. And that's with Coleman at LT instead of Armstead. Austin Jackson looks very solid in pass pro at RT. The question, of course, is run blocking. But once Waddle and Hill are in the lineup, and McDaniel calls actual plays, I think the scheme alone will greatly improve the running game. We could definitely use veteran depth, but I'm feeling good about the OL starters.

by DolFan 316 Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:57 pm

JMP wrote:I don't believe for a second that the Dolphins are actively shopping Gesicki. I'm sure teams have inquired, but I don't see any chance the Phins will trade a receiving threat like Gesicki. All this "but he can't block" talk is nonsense - McDaniel will use him to exploit weaknesses in the defense, and he is going to be a primary red zone target. Trading him would be foolish.

Just because I'm glad you're back doesn't mean I won't disagree with you Razz

At this point even Gesicki knows he's being traded and won't be on this team when the season's over. As soon as Long was drafted I knew. McDaniel really is hung up on TEs blocking in the NFL in the 2020s. And apparently doesn't see what the big deal is about centers knowing how to snap the ball properly. I'm starting to see cracks already...

Besides, FF has a super duper top secret inside source.

by white1 Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:45 am

The one thing about our new roster that makes Gesicki expendable is the depth in our receiver room. Even behind Hill and Waddle - Wilson, Easy E, Sanders, even Bowden Jr have all made plays in camp / preseason. We don't really NEED another receiving threat.

What we need is good, true TEs that won't telegraph the play we are running.

I believe we only move Gesicki if we can get good value, but I think it's possible.

by CarsonChris Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:43 am

Don't need Gesicki when Tanner Connor is the faster TE/receiver. Save the 10 million and spend it on an edge rusher or center.

by **JMP** Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:40 pm

There are likely only a handful of teams that could take on Gesicki's one-year, $11 million cap hit. And because of the cap hit, none of those teams would be willing to give up adequate compensation in a trade. The Dolphins would be much better off keeping him this season, and then if they decide to let him walk in the offseason, they probably get a 3rd round compensatory pick - more than they would get in a trade now.

Plus, regardless of whether or not he can block, Gesicki is a weapon in the passing game - and McDaniel knows how to use weapons. And don't give me Hunter Long...that guy has shown nothing. He may develop, but he isn't there now and may never be. As for Tanner Connor, I'm not even sure he'll make the roster, let alone replace a top receiving TE.

We have great depth at receiver right now. That can change in a hurry with injuries, as we have learned all too well the past few seasons. Why take a strength, and weaken it for no good reason? There's absolutely no benefit to trading Gesicki now - none at all.

by DolFan 316 Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:39 pm

JMP wrote:There are likely only a handful of teams that could take on Gesicki's one-year, $11 million cap hit. And because of the cap hit, none of those teams would be willing to give up adequate compensation in a trade. The Dolphins would be much better off keeping him this season, and then if they decide to let him walk in the offseason, they probably get a 3rd round compensatory pick - more than they would get in a trade now.

Plus, regardless of whether or not he can block, Gesicki is a weapon in the passing game - and McDaniel knows how to use weapons. And don't give me Hunter Long...that guy has shown nothing. He may develop, but he isn't there now and may never be. As for Tanner Connor, I'm not even sure he'll make the roster, let alone replace a top receiving TE.

We have great depth at receiver right now. That can change in a hurry with injuries, as we have learned all too well the past few seasons. Why take a strength, and weaken it for no good reason? There's absolutely no benefit to trading Gesicki now - none at all.

The problem is Jmp, you're looking at this from your point of view which is that of a sane, rational person. This is the 2020s, that way of thinking is outdated, antiquated and obsolete.

The way McDaniel (and Grier) are looking at it is that since Gesicki can't block, he's useless and someone like Long would be much better because he can. Allegedly. It doesn't matter to them that most of the top TEs aren't great or in some cases even good blockers. It doesn't matter that by any standard, in any universe, Gesicki is a better TE than Long and it's not even close. Like so many other people in this modern day clown world, they've decided to become completely fixated on a problem that exists only in their own minds, while ignoring far bigger and real problems. Like, oh for example, the center being able to snap the ball properly. I cannot recall the last time a Fins player of Gesicki's caliber fell out of favor so quickly with a new coaching staff (maybe Keith Byars in '96 or JT in '08?) but that's where we're at right now. We can rail against the absurdity of it all we want, but as usual we're not the ones in charge so ultimately like everything else in life, what we think will get swept under the rug in favor of sheer insanity because that's what the people in charge want.

by finfanatic Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:23 pm

Nice comments boy all.

I hear the problem in trading Gesicki, besides who wanted a TE/WR, something to do with him signing the franchise tender offer. No team could negotiate a new long term contract with him until after this season?

Or some such rumored crapola.

There also did not seem to be a lot of interest from teams which I find hard to believe, but...???

In any event, the Oline cuts are in and the only one I can maybe raise an eyebrow about is OG Solomon Kindley. He looked like a killer on run blocking to me.

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