Should the Phins acquire Jonathan Taylor?

by white1 Wed Aug 23, 2023 12:11 pm

Link to a nice article by Omar.

I agree with his thinking, and this is why I want the Fins to do the deal for Taylor.

You'll find the compensation piece in the article interesting.... less than what we've been talking about

https://www.si.com/nfl/dolphins/news/why-the-miami-dolphins-should-trade-for-jonathan-taylor

by mercury22nathan Wed Aug 23, 2023 12:17 pm

i know that a Jonathan Taylor discussion was started under the Achane thread, but i figure it needed its own thread now that the Dolphins have officially begun preliminary negotiations with the Colts...

The Dolphins are among the teams that have called the Indianapolis Colts to discuss a trade involving running back Jonathan Taylor.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/dolphins-colts-discuss-jonathan-taylor-133015796.html

i linked the Herald article via Yahoo since i know some of you have trouble getting through the Herald's pay wall.

Barry Jackson is all in on trading for Taylor...

The Dolphins need to make this deal, not only because of how it would help Tua Tagovailoa, but also because of how it could boost Miami’s chances of surviving any multiweek injury to their quarterback, who hasn’t played a full season since the Dolphins drafted him.

...and shows how financially it can be done ($12M per year target). yes, it'll take drafts picks, but considering some the recent use of those picks: would you rather have Taylor or another combo if Iggy, Eich and name any other early round disappointment.

i don't know, i'm starting to warm up to the idea.

by mercury22nathan Wed Aug 23, 2023 12:18 pm

great minds think alike.

you can/should merge this with White's "Acquire Jonathan Taylor" thread.

by white1 Wed Aug 23, 2023 12:57 pm

sounds good! I'm all in on Taylor...

by **JMP** Wed Aug 23, 2023 2:19 pm

*Topics merged and title changed.*

by DolFan 316 Wed Aug 23, 2023 2:37 pm

(Sighs.)

And when exactly will Taylor actually be able to, you know, PLAY if this trade happens? I can't see him starting the opener. Maybe not the next game either. And the Herberts and Pats are two teams it's pretty important to be able to run against.

What happens if Taylor starts this drama all over again next year by demanding more money from the deal the Fins already would've had to give him? Don't think that can't or won't happen.

And why is Grier seemingly doing everything in his power NOT to pay Wilkins? What kind of message is that sending not only to Wilkins but the team in general? It's like that one person who owes you money who keeps promising you he'll pay it back any day now and then 2 months go by and he's buying a new vehicle, a new smartphone, etc. and you still haven't gotten it.

One more thing: how many playoff wins did the Colts have with Taylor? As many as they would've had with you or I on the team--ZERO. They only even MADE the playoffs one of his three seasons there and the record got worse every year!

My only hope is that this turns out just like every other media "guarantee" the Fins will do something and never actually happens.

by **JMP** Wed Aug 23, 2023 3:12 pm

In a perfect world, I'm all in on Taylor - ALL IN.

But this isn't a perfect world.

First, RBs have a short shelf life, and Taylor is actually hurt right now as I type this. As 316 points out, we have no idea when he will actually be able to play.

Second, and more importantly, even though the salary cap can be manipulated, it is still something that must be dealt with. And forget the fact that we are currently more than $30 million over next year's cap...that's a meaningless number. But what we should all be concerned about with the cap is this:

2024 Dolphins free agents:
Robert Hunt
Connor Williams
Isaiah Wynn
Austin Jackson
Robert Jones
Kendall Lamm
Dan Feeney
Braxton Berrios
Alec Ingold
Christian Wilkins
Raekwon Davis
Zach Sieler
Jerome Baker
Andrew Van Ginkel
Nik Needham
Brandon Jones
Deshon Elliott
Blake Ferguson
Jake Bailey

Here's a breakdown:
4 offensive line starters and 3 key reserves
Starting FB
A WR who may be the top slot and top returner
Starting DT and 2 key rotational DTs
Starting LB and key rotational player
2 starting safeties
A key rotational CB
Punter and Long Snapper

Money is already tight, and even if we free up a lot of space we are going to lose many, if not most, of these free agents. Forgetting all the other positions for a moment, what will it cost just to rebuild the entire OL alone, in both draft capital and cap space?

With all this in mind, is it smart to trade for a (currently injured) RB that will cost key draft picks AND eat up a huge chunk of cap space? Honestly, it just doesn't make any sense to me.

If it happens, I'll be excited to watch Taylor play in this offense. But realistically, how much better will his numbers actually be compared to the three-headed backfield of Mostert/Wilson/Achane? Will Taylor be $12-15 million better than what we already have??? And if we don't win a Super Bowl this season, will having Taylor on the team in 2024 make up for all the players we are going to lose?

I say, stand pat and go to battle with the backs we have. If RB becomes such a huge issue, draft another one next year and pay him pennies on the dollar compared to Taylor's contract.

My prediction: if Taylor is traded, he's going to the Bears. They have the draft picks and cap space to blow any other team out of the water.

by DolFan 316 Wed Aug 23, 2023 3:22 pm

JMP TELLIN' IT LIKE IT IS, BAYBEH!!! cheers

Grier is going full Les Snead right before our eyes. What happened to building through the draft? I could've sworn Grier or *somebody* associated with this team said that back in 2020. Could it be that even GRIER knows he can't draft at this point and is desperately trying to cover it up? I say yes!

I mean yeah, Taylor is clearly better than Cook or Elliott on paper, and his signing would raise the blood pressure of Jets and Pats fans for sure, but a move like that would mean this team HAS to win a Super Bowl to justify it. Anything less would and should be utterly unacceptable. And I just cannot see ANY team who trenches have been neglected as much as Grier has for shiny new toys winning a Super Bowl. I just...can't. So in 1-2 seasons they're right back to 5 wins like last season's Rams but without the title to show for it. And even WITH that title the Rams are STILL getting bashed and trashed by everyone these days, how much WORSE would it be for a team the media already loves to hate?

by **JMP** Wed Aug 23, 2023 3:55 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:
Grier is going full Les Snead right before our eyes. What happened to building through the draft? I could've sworn Grier or *somebody* associated with this team said that back in 2020. Could it be that even GRIER knows he can't draft at this point and is desperately trying to cover it up? I say yes!

I actually think the plan was to build through the draft - and then Tyreek Hill happened. I think the Hill deal was too good to pass up, and once it was completed it immediately took the Phins from "rebuild" to "all in". But "all in" doesn't have to mean adding a high-cost (injured) running back. I'm sure the Phins will do their due diligence and see what the actual cost to acquire Taylor is, but in the end I just don't think Grier/McD will see it as the right move to make.

by white1 Wed Aug 23, 2023 5:19 pm

Barry Jackson reporting Colts and Miami are negotiating. Multiple teams interested but still skepticism anyone will agree to first round pick or two seconds - thinking is situation will force deal at lower trade comp…

by DolFan 316 Wed Aug 23, 2023 5:32 pm

white1 wrote:Barry Jackson reporting Colts and Miami are negotiating. Multiple teams interested but still skepticism anyone will agree to first round pick or two seconds - thinking is situation will force deal at lower trade comp…

It damn well better. No team present past or future can afford to have three consecutive bare bones skeleton drafts.

I reiterate, if the Fins land Taylor then a Super Bowl will and should be my expectation, and everybody else's too. At that point I absolutely will not tolerate or accept ANYBODY telling me I'm unreasonable by demanding too much. If this trade isn't made specifically to win a title ASAP then what's the point?

by **JMP** Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:36 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:
white1 wrote:Barry Jackson reporting Colts and Miami are negotiating. Multiple teams interested but still skepticism anyone will agree to first round pick or two seconds - thinking is situation will force deal at lower trade comp…

It damn well better. No team present past or future can afford to have three consecutive bare bones skeleton drafts.

I reiterate, if the Fins land Taylor then a Super Bowl will and should be my expectation, and everybody else's too. At that point I absolutely will not tolerate or accept ANYBODY telling me I'm unreasonable by demanding too much. If this trade isn't made specifically to win a title ASAP then what's the point?

100% agree - it's Super Bowl or failure if we do get Taylor.

by **JMP** Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:38 pm

white1 wrote:Barry Jackson reporting Colts and Miami are negotiating. Multiple teams interested but still skepticism anyone will agree to first round pick or two seconds - thinking is situation will force deal at lower trade comp…

The Eagles are apparently coming in hot and heavy...

by DolFan 316 Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:47 pm

JMP wrote:The Eagles are apparently coming in hot and heavy...

Philly has less than $200K more cap space than the Fins but a ridiculous $55.5-plus million of dead money Shocked

They also brought in D'Andre Swift this offseason. I really don't understand why they want Taylor so badly and I suspect it's just a ploy to drive his price up. Howie Roseman is a far better and smarter GM than Grier. Just you watch, they'll back out at the absolute last second leaving the Fins holding the bag. It's like Monopoly when you deliberately bid higher than the asking price for a property knowing you can get someone else to pay even more than that.

by DolFan 316 Wed Aug 23, 2023 8:19 pm

I feel like this is very important to know.

https://www.rotoballer.com/player-news/colts-give-jonathan-taylor-a-deadline-to-find-trade/1223792

Taylor remains on the Physically Unable to Perform list. If he remains on the PUP list past next Tuesday, he'd be required to miss at least the first four weeks of the regular season.

I swear, if Grier actually gives away a first/multiple seconds for someone who WON'T EVEN BE PLAYING THE FIRST FOUR GAMES I will be angrier then you've seen me in years!!! The fact a trade hasn't been agreed to yet hopefully indicates that even HE'S not THAT dumb. Maybe.

by **JMP** Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:32 pm

I don't know what to believe anymore. After reading the report about the Eagles interest, I read another report that said that the Eagles hadn't even contacted the Colts! scratch

I'll just say this: Grier has shown that if he really wants a player, he'll do anything he can to get him. But - we don't know how badly the Phins want Taylor - or, really, if they even have any interest at all. After all, we heard a thousand times that the Phins were all in on Cook - and it turns out, they really weren't at all. So again - who knows what to believe??

What I want above all is for Wilkins to remain a Dolphin for a long time. If we can do that AND add Taylor, I'll feel much better. But if we lose Wilkins because of Taylor???

Should the Phins acquire Jonathan Taylor? Angry-leonardo-gif.gif

Should the Phins acquire Jonathan Taylor? Angry-leonardo-gif.gif

by DolFan 316 Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:36 pm

FYI the Fins currently have a first and second in next year's draft but no 3rd (stupid tampering BS) or 4th (traded for Chubb) and one 5th, 6th and 7th each. Is Taylor worth giving away even one of those first two picks for? Are any of us ready for a draft in which this team doesn't even have a selection until the 5th round? I'm sure as hell not!

https://www.prosportstransactions.com/football/DraftTrades/Future/Dolphins.htm

by **JMP** Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:49 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:FYI the Fins currently have a first and second in next year's draft but no 3rd (stupid tampering BS) or 4th (traded for Chubb) and one 5th, 6th and 7th each. Is Taylor worth giving away even one of those first two picks for? Are any of us ready for a draft in which this team doesn't even have a selection until the 5th round? I'm sure as hell not!

https://www.prosportstransactions.com/football/DraftTrades/Future/Dolphins.htm

The only way I want to trade 2023 picks is to get another first round pick in 2024. Depending on what happens with Tua's health this season, we just might need some ammo to move up for a QB in 2024...whether or not we have a stud RB!

by **JMP** Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:37 am

NBC Sports wrote:NFL Network’s Cameron Wolfe said the Dolphins have some interest in acquiring an elite running back but “only up to a certain price.”

In other words, it sounds like the Dolphins aren’t interested in overpaying for Jonathan Taylor or any other top back. The Colts’ asking price for Taylor is reportedly high, leaving some to question whether or not a trade will get done before next Tuesday’s deadline the Colts have put forth. Wolfe also reports the Dolphins reached out to the Raiders about Josh Jacobs earlier this year, but the Raiders said they have no plans on trading Jacobs at this time.

1h ago
Source: Cameron Wolfe

by white1 Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:47 am

If this gets done, I'm thinking something like 2nd round pick, plus Jeff Wilson Jr plus Cedric Wilson Jr.

The Colts get a starting caliber RB in return for Taylor to provide a threat next to their rookie QB, and also give him a veteran receiver (they have very little there). In addition, the 2nd rounder to bolster their rebuild.

The Fins dump some salary for players they really don't need.

Ogbah is a possibility replacing one of the players, but the Colts likely want to provide their rookie QB with some weapons...

by mercury22nathan Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:55 am

that's what Barry Jackson has been saying.

Talks with Miami and Colts are ongoing. Whether Miami is willing to meet Colts' demands must play out, but Dolphins trying to get deal done.

https://twitter.com/flasportsbuzz/status/1694447896458928418?s=20

apparently the Dolphins want Taylor bad, but aren't willing to sell the farm to get him. just how far are the willing to go? i guess we'll see (or not) by next Tuesday's deadline. supposedly the McCaffrey deal is the realistic starting point: second-round pick, a third-rounder, a fourth-rounder and a fifth-round pick the next year.

some rumors are that Taylor was always the Phins' target and the courtship of Cook (and overboard media coverage sourced from Miami) was an attempt to spurn the Colts into a premature move. i suppose that is possible since Miami never made a truly competitive offer for Cook ($6M-$8M range) and are apparently willing to go at least to $12M for Taylor - otherwise why bother having discussions with the Colts?

by **JMP** Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:56 am

Cameron Wolfe
@CameronWolfe

Dolphins made an exploratory call on 2022 rushing champ Josh Jacobs but talks didn’t go far, per source. Raiders told teams they don’t plan to trade Jacobs.

Miami has some interest in elite RB trade market — Jonathan Taylor, Jacobs — but only up to a certain price, I’m told.

7:08 AM · Aug 24, 2023

Clearly the Phins are looking at high-priced backs, so they are prepared to pay - but I guess they have a $ threshold they won't cross?

by white1 Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:00 am

supposedly the McCaffrey deal is the realistic starting point: second-round pick, a third-rounder, a fourth-rounder and a fifth-round pick the next year.

starting point, yes. But Indy won't get that much. The relationship is fractured, they have hurt his value in the process...

by **JMP** Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:09 am

white1 wrote:

Ogbah is a possibility replacing one of the players, but the Colts likely want to provide their rookie QB with some weapons...

If Ogbah is traded this season, the Phins open up about $15 million in cap space this season - but will be hit with $4 million in dead cap in 2024.
But if they cut/trade him in the offseason with a post-June 1 designation, they can spread out that $4 million dead cap between 2024 and 2025 ($2 million per year).

The extra cap space this season would be good to front-load a bit on a Taylor and/or Wilkins deal, but $4 million dead cap is rough in a season where we are already over the cap.

In any case, Ogbah is now playing OLB and isn't a great fit there, so by that logic it would make sense to trade him. Given the cap implications, I'm really not sure what the Phins would prefer to do with Ogbah.

I do agree that the Colts would want a RB in return for Taylor. But I wonder if they would prefer Achane over Jeff Wilson...

Lots of possibilities!

by **JMP** Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:17 am

white1 wrote:
supposedly the McCaffrey deal is the realistic starting point: second-round pick, a third-rounder, a fourth-rounder and a fifth-round pick the next year.

starting point, yes. But Indy won't get that much. The relationship is fractured, they have hurt his value in the process...

Yep. And not only that, but Taylor needs a new contract. CMC already got his big contract from Carolina before he was traded, and the 49ers now have him on a very cap-friendly deal since they don't have to pay his bonus. So, the Niners were willing to trade more picks since they didn't have to also shell out the big bucks.

The case with Taylor is very different because not only are you trading picks, you're also giving him a big contract with lots of guaranteed money. So, theoretically, any team trading for him would not want to give up several premium picks AND a ton of money.

Maybe a 2nd in 2023, a 5th in 2024, and Jeff Wilson?

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