Re: Minkah traded to Steelers!

by HalCHorn Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:03 pm

Picking Satele with the 2nd rounder wasn't that bad. Guy was good enough to start in the NFL for 8 years. Unfortunately, he didn't fit what the next regime wanted, and Parcells pissed him away for pennies on the dollar, taking a 6th rounder for him so they could sign Jake Grove.

by **JMP** Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:00 am

Yeah, I think Satele was probably better than we all gave him credit for at the time. Just would have been nice to get an impact skill player with that pick.

by rightchea Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:38 am

I think the thing I hate about the media is everyone is talking about tanking and not all the bad contract that Miami needed to get rid of to have a salary cap this high. I really feel like Miami no purposely tanking it just unfortunate that the players you do get rid of were the reason your team was average/below average

by scotgif Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:59 am

It is in to pile on what the FO is doing. Most of the national media does not understand what has actually happened in ridding the team of burdensome contacts of a lot of guys that did not play up to their contracts. All they see is a fire sale but don’t take into account the hail of draft picks and the tons of money under the cap to sign as many FA as they want.

Now, it is ALL on Grier to make the right moves and bring in the right type of pieces to elevate the team into a perennial contender. If he fails, he will be gone in Three years.

by mercury22nathan Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:24 am

damn, but hey, you knew it was unavoidable.

The Pittsburgh Steelers’ trade for safety Minkah Fitzpatrick seemed a little curious, but it paid off in Fitzpatick’s first game on his new team.

Fitzpatrick, who wanted off the Miami Dolphins’ sinking ship, was traded to the Steelers. In his first half of his Steelers debut, Fitzpatrick had an interception and forced a fumble on a San Francisco 49ers run deep in Pittsburgh territory.

And in his first Steelers game, Fitzpatrick was already making the trade look good. The 0-3 Dolphins could use a guy like that.

https://sports.yahoo.com/instant-impact-freed-from-miami-minkah-fitzpatrick-makes-big-plays-for-steelers-211824957.html

oh well, if the guy didn't want to be a Phin, what could they do? hopefully those draft picks will turn into something.

by **JMP** Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:22 am

mercury22nathan wrote:damn, but hey, you knew it was unavoidable.

The Pittsburgh Steelers’ trade for safety Minkah Fitzpatrick seemed a little curious, but it paid off in Fitzpatick’s first game on his new team.

Fitzpatrick, who wanted off the Miami Dolphins’ sinking ship, was traded to the Steelers. In his first half of his Steelers debut, Fitzpatrick had an interception and forced a fumble on a San Francisco 49ers run deep in Pittsburgh territory.

And in his first Steelers game, Fitzpatrick was already making the trade look good. The 0-3 Dolphins could use a guy like that.

https://sports.yahoo.com/instant-impact-freed-from-miami-minkah-fitzpatrick-makes-big-plays-for-steelers-211824957.html

oh well, if the guy didn't want to be a Phin, what could they do? hopefully those draft picks will turn into something.

As long as the Steelers keep losing and that 1st round draft pick gets better and better, I'm good with it. Like you said, Minkah wanted out - we did the best we could in that deal.

For the record, our safeties also made some big plays yesterday - McCain with an INT and Parker with a great pass defensed on a 3rd down play.

by mercury22nathan Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:25 am

JMP wrote:For the record, our safeties also made some big plays yesterday - McCain with an INT and Parker with a great pass defensed on a 3rd down play.

true. something came to mind... do you all think Jones is really hurt that bad or is there more to him not playing?

by **JMP** Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:37 am

mercury22nathan wrote:
JMP wrote:For the record, our safeties also made some big plays yesterday - McCain with an INT and Parker with a great pass defensed on a 3rd down play.

true. something came to mind... do you all think Jones is really hurt that bad or is there more to him not playing?

Who knows with that guy? Nothing would surprise me anymore. I've given up on him...he was once a great player, but those days are gone.

I would like to see what a healthy Jones could do in this defense...but at this point, I don't know when or if he'll ever see the field.

by scotgif Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:06 pm

Ive said all along that Jones is being “Kikoed”. He may be slightly banged up, but I think they are just waiting for a team in need to call and offer up maybe a 4th or 5th. And then he’s gone.

by Degarmo Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:21 pm

The reason Minkah wanted out was because they were asking him to do things he wasn't any good at, and he knew it. That's on the coaching staff.

The fact that he had an instant positive effect shows that he can play the game just fine.

It's not as simple as "oh well". This is an indication of something a bit deeper than that, and I hope they get their heads straight before they start drafting people, or we'll be talking about one of the biggest botch jobs in history.

They've got all the picks lined up right now to have several amazing strategies, including trading out of No. 1 in the biggest long-con ever perpetrated (I'd love to see that).

by mercury22nathan Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:29 pm

Degarmo wrote:That's on the coaching staff.

Armando is with you. 3 games in and he's already given up on this crew.

Begin with the fact Minkah Fitzpatrick’s first 60 minutes in Pittsburgh were better than any singular game he had with the Dolphins last year or the first two weeks this year.

So, yeah, this coaching staff had a good player in their grasp and couldn’t make it work.

Which leads me to Xavien Howard. He’s also a very good player.

And he just turned in his worst game of the season and one of the top three worst games of his career.

That picture has Jakeem Grant regressing because his first three games this year have included two dropped punts, a dropped touchdown and other dropped passes. Those three games, meanwhile, have lacked any high-five-en-route-to-the-end-zone-moments like we saw last season -- before he got a contract extension from the team.

That picture has DeVante Parker being no better with this coaching staff than he was with the previous one, which is to say he’s inconsistent. Except the Dolphins decided to pay him more this year than they had in any previous season.

That picture includes the Dolphins being outscored, 68-0 in the second of games so far, which doesn’t speak well of the Miami staff’s in-game adjustments.

That picture has running back Kalen Ballage amassing all of 16 rushing yards on 16 carries the first three games.

These things speak of the players that either are or are not making the play. But it also speaks to a Dolphins coaching staff and personnel department that is failing to correctly judge or evaluate what those players can or cannot do.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article235360497.html

by **JMP** Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:34 pm

Degarmo wrote:It's not as simple as "oh well". This is an indication of something a bit deeper than that

Hard to say without knowing the full story. There's always two sides. But from the outside looking in, to me Minkah looks like an entitled whiner and complainer who didn't want to do his job. Now, I'm sure the coaches played a role - but Minkah was complaining last season too, with a different coaching staff. And then with his mommy adding fuel to the fire, it was just a bad situation. I can't give the player the benefit of the doubt in this case.

Degarmo wrote:They've got all the picks lined up right now to have several amazing strategies, including trading out of No. 1 in the biggest long-con ever perpetrated (I'd love to see that).

That would be insane! As much as I like Tua, Fromm is another interesting choice. Fromm's leadership ability is off the charts, and in terms of what this Mimai offense wants to do he just may be an ideal fit. That said, IMO Fromm is more of a game manager where Tua is a home run waiting to happen. Using the Chiefs as an example, I'd say Fromm = Alex Smith and Tua = Mahomes.

And then there's Herbert, who is lighting it up this year. I just don't trust him in a big spot, but he is mega-talented for sure.

Anyway, yeah, if we do get the #1 pick it will be worth a FORTUNE this year, and we'd have to at least entertain trade offers.

by **JMP** Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:39 pm

mercury22nathan wrote:
Degarmo wrote:That's on the coaching staff.

Armando is with you. 3 games in and he's already given up on this crew.

Begin with the fact Minkah Fitzpatrick’s first 60 minutes in Pittsburgh were better than any singular game he had with the Dolphins last year or the first two weeks this year.

So, yeah, this coaching staff had a good player in their grasp and couldn’t make it work.

Which leads me to Xavien Howard. He’s also a very good player.

And he just turned in his worst game of the season and one of the top three worst games of his career.

That picture has Jakeem Grant regressing because his first three games this year have included two dropped punts, a dropped touchdown and other dropped passes. Those three games, meanwhile, have lacked any high-five-en-route-to-the-end-zone-moments like we saw last season -- before he got a contract extension from the team.

That picture has DeVante Parker being no better with this coaching staff than he was with the previous one, which is to say he’s inconsistent. Except the Dolphins decided to pay him more this year than they had in any previous season.

That picture includes the Dolphins being outscored, 68-0 in the second of games so far, which doesn’t speak well of the Miami staff’s in-game adjustments.

That picture has running back Kalen Ballage amassing all of 16 rushing yards on 16 carries the first three games.

These things speak of the players that either are or are not making the play. But it also speaks to a Dolphins coaching staff and personnel department that is failing to correctly judge or evaluate what those players can or cannot do.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article235360497.html

Parker has actually looked much better than I expected. Needs to clean up the drops for sure, but he's been getting open and fighting for the ball through 3 games - which is progress for him.

And X just went up against the best route runner the NFL has seen since Reggie Wayne...no shame in getting beaten by Cooper.

Ballage has been godawful, but no one is running behind this line.

And let's not forget: every team looks awful when they face the Patriots and Cowboys this year, so let's not act like this is just a Dolphins issue. We're a bad team playing against the best teams...I think some slack is due. Now, if this happens against the Redskins, it's time to worry. But now? Too early to tell how much is on the coaches IMO. Again, I'm looking for progress over the course of the season - not just 3 games.

by Umix10 Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:51 pm

The funny thing to me is that he just wanted to play one position. He was drafted after playing safety in college.

Coincidentally, isn't that what he played yesterday? Ive said all along, instead of making him "Jim 'crash' Jensen", they should have let him play safety. We already had a well established slot corner in McCain.

Would it have been the same if they asked X to move to slot corner?

Just my opinion

by **JMP** Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:03 pm

Umix10 wrote:The funny thing to me is that he just wanted to play one position. He was drafted after playing safety in college.

Coincidentally, isn't that what he played yesterday? Ive said all along, instead of making him "Jim 'crash' Jensen", they should have let him play safety. We already had a well established slot corner in McCain.

Would it have been the same if they asked X to move to slot corner?

Just my opinion

Minkah played corner and safety in college, and even a little LB in certain looks. In fact, that was one of the positives in all his scouting reports - that he could play multiple positions. The Dolphins drafted him with the idea that he would fill multiple roles and be a sort of "X factor", and when the new staff took over they had the same thing in mind.

Supposedly he wanted to play slot corner in Miami, now he goes to Pittsburgh and says he wants to play FS. Personally, I don't think he know what he wants. But I do know this: he's not the multi-talented Swiss Army knife that he was billed as. Ultimately, I just don't think he's all that special...I guess we'll find out.

by Umix10 Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:18 pm

JMP wrote: .......Ultimately, I just don't think he's all that special...I guess we'll find out.

Like you said, he isn't as multi talented as he was billed. Again, its on the coaching staff to identify this and put him in a position to succeed. They made the decision that they knew better than getting down to basics which is you know....evaluate his talent.

That's my main problem.

by **JMP** Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:40 pm

Umix10 wrote:
JMP wrote: .......Ultimately, I just don't think he's all that special...I guess we'll find out.

Like you said, he isn't as multi talented as he was billed. Again, its on the coaching staff to identify this and put him in a position to succeed. They made the decision that they knew better than getting down to basics which is you know....evaluate his talent.

That's my main problem.

Yeah, I can see that...but at the same time, the coaches were trying to get him to do some of the things he did at Alabama...and he just didn't want to do it. As a coach, at what point do you give in to what a player wants and what the team needs? I don't know the answer to that, but I would think team comes first.

If the conversation started with the coaches saying "we want you to help our team by doing X, Y and Z" and Minkah's response was "I only want to do Y", what do you do as a coach? Again, we don't know exactly what happened behind the scenes, but in any other line of work when your boss asks you to do something, you do it - even if it's not your preferred job.

As far as talent evaluation, clearly the coaches both last year and this year saw Minkah as a player that could handle an expanded role. So, yeah, I guess that's on them - even though he did at Alabama and was a first round pick as a result. Players all over the league are asked to play multiple roles, now more than ever. I just don't get the attituide by a player of "I only want to do what I want to do". It's mind-boggling to me.

by Umix10 Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:03 pm

JMP wrote:
Umix10 wrote:
JMP wrote: .......Ultimately, I just don't think he's all that special...I guess we'll find out.

Like you said, he isn't as multi talented as he was billed. Again, its on the coaching staff to identify this and put him in a position to succeed. They made the decision that they knew better than getting down to basics which is you know....evaluate his talent.

That's my main problem.

Yeah, I can see that...but at the same time, the coaches were trying to get him to do some of the things he did at Alabama...and he just didn't want to do it. As a coach, at what point do you give in to what a player wants and what the team needs? I don't know the answer to that, but I would think team comes first.

If the conversation started with the coaches saying "we want you to help our team by doing X, Y and Z" and Minkah's response was "I only want to do Y", what do you do as a coach? Again, we don't know exactly what happened behind the scenes, but in any other line of work when your boss asks you to do something, you do it - even if it's not your preferred job.

As far as talent evaluation, clearly the coaches both last year and this year saw Minkah as a player that could handle an expanded role. So, yeah, I guess that's on them - even though he did at Alabama and was a first round pick as a result. Players all over the league are asked to play multiple roles, now more than ever. I just don't get the attituide by a player of "I only want to do what I want to do". It's mind-boggling to me.

Inevitably, you are absolutely correct!!!! 1000%! His attitude sucked ass. However; I think that the as a coach, you take the higher road because like you said the team comes first. Including the coaches. They knew were tanking. They knew the key to the rebuild was find young guys with talent and build through the draft. Fitzpatrick fit that description. But trading him away was totally opposite of the rebuild process. Even though we got a first we still don't know what or who or how that pick will turn out. Success was not a lock for Fitzpatrick when we had no edge rush and no LB's. So I would say "ok Minkah. Let's try you out at safety or slot or nickel or whatever. Let's see if this makes us better as a team. Lets see what the tapes say and then we will look at it". If he flopped than theres no where for Minkah to go. Thats how i would have handled it.

by finfanatic Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:19 pm

I said it before: If Minkah Fitzpatrick is not a perennial Pro Bowler, the coaching staff are using him wrong.

I will be surprised if he is not EXTREMELY GOOD in Pittsburgh.

I was surprised by the attitude he displayed in Miami.

Then again, if he saw this coaching staff was a buncha bumbling boobs.... Who knows?

We shall see.

by **JMP** Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:11 pm

Umix10 wrote:
JMP wrote:
Umix10 wrote:
JMP wrote: .......Ultimately, I just don't think he's all that special...I guess we'll find out.

Like you said, he isn't as multi talented as he was billed. Again, its on the coaching staff to identify this and put him in a position to succeed. They made the decision that they knew better than getting down to basics which is you know....evaluate his talent.

That's my main problem.

Yeah, I can see that...but at the same time, the coaches were trying to get him to do some of the things he did at Alabama...and he just didn't want to do it. As a coach, at what point do you give in to what a player wants and what the team needs? I don't know the answer to that, but I would think team comes first.

If the conversation started with the coaches saying "we want you to help our team by doing X, Y and Z" and Minkah's response was "I only want to do Y", what do you do as a coach? Again, we don't know exactly what happened behind the scenes, but in any other line of work when your boss asks you to do something, you do it - even if it's not your preferred job.

As far as talent evaluation, clearly the coaches both last year and this year saw Minkah as a player that could handle an expanded role. So, yeah, I guess that's on them - even though he did at Alabama and was a first round pick as a result. Players all over the league are asked to play multiple roles, now more than ever. I just don't get the attituide by a player of "I only want to do what I want to do". It's mind-boggling to me.

Inevitably, you are absolutely correct!!!! 1000%! His attitude sucked ass. However; I think that the as a coach, you take the higher road because like you said the team comes first. Including the coaches. They knew were tanking. They knew the key to the rebuild was find young guys with talent and build through the draft. Fitzpatrick fit that description. But trading him away was totally opposite of the rebuild process. Even though we got a first we still don't know what or who or how that pick will turn out. Success was not a lock for Fitzpatrick when we had no edge rush and no LB's. So I would say "ok Minkah. Let's try you out at safety or slot or nickel or whatever. Let's see if this makes us better as a team. Lets see what the tapes say and then we will look at it". If he flopped than theres no where for Minkah to go. Thats how i would have handled it.

Agree with most of this, except the part I bolded. One of the main components of a rebuild is dumping the players that can't/won't buy in to the new program. Minkah wouldn't buy in, so we traded him for the highest value possible. This is a move that had to be done, for the good of the team. It's not all about good players - it's more about players that fit. Minkah didn't fit.

by HalCHorn Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:20 pm

On the coaching staff: I saw some good and some bad yesterday.

The good: Love the onside kick call. Loved the timing, and IMO the offsides penalty was bogus (we weren't exactly lucky yesterday), but I thought it was a good call.

Loved the flea flicker, and the timing was perfect there too.

Loved the idea of having Howard shadow Cooper. Too bad our marquee player was having a lousy day.

On the downside:

Did not love the failure to throw the challenge flag on Williams' non catch for a TD. Seriously, what did we have to lose? It isn't like we were just overflowing with opportunities.

Did not like the three straight rushing attempts inside the 10. We were not getting any push in the run game, all day.

Mixed bag, but I think Armando is giving up on this staff way too early. I saw enough good things yesterday to have optimism. Also, these guys played hard and bought in. They just got overpowered after awhile.

by **JMP** Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:44 am

HalCHorn wrote:On the coaching staff: I saw some good and some bad yesterday.

The good: Love the onside kick call. Loved the timing, and IMO the offsides penalty was bogus (we weren't exactly lucky yesterday), but I thought it was a good call.

Loved the flea flicker, and the timing was perfect there too.

Loved the idea of having Howard shadow Cooper. Too bad our marquee player was having a lousy day.

On the downside:

Did not love the failure to throw the challenge flag on Williams' non catch for a TD. Seriously, what did we have to lose? It isn't like we were just overflowing with opportunities.

Did not like the three straight rushing attempts inside the 10. We were not getting any push in the run game, all day.

Mixed bag, but I think Armando is giving up on this staff way too early. I saw enough good things yesterday to have optimism. Also, these guys played hard and bought in. They just got overpowered after awhile.

I have mixed feelings about the non-challenge on the Williams catch. I don't think it would have been overturned, so I can understand not challenging. But like you said, Hal, there was really nothing to lose so why not at least throw the flag and see what happens.

Loved the onsides kick call too. With this offense we probably wouldn't have scored anyway, but it was a great decision that actually worked - aside from the bad penalty call.

I was pleasantly surprised with the offense. It looked like receivers were getting open all day, and there was some creativity in playcalling. With better blocking and less drops, we could have had a really solid day. Of course, something has to be done with the run blocking...it's just non-existent right now, and it really puts the offense in a hole.

On defense, I thought we'd be much more blitz-heavy to help disguise the lack of pass rush from the DL. But the D was nearly perfect in the first half, before imploding in a major way in the 3rd quarter. Seemed like the Cowboys made halftime adjustments, and we failed to respond. Still, the first half was encouraging. Have to find a way to generate pressure and force more turnovers.

by finfanatic Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:04 pm

I think he Cowboys had been hearing just how gosh-awful the Phins were and thought it was gonna be a romp in the park.

They came out and APPLIED themselves in the 2nd half. Really showed the distance between the Phins and Da'Boyz.

With a bad D-line and a bad O-line, the Phins are operating at a severe handicap. The fact the Phins were close to making some plays is encouraging.

by Umix10 Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:38 pm

JMP wrote:.......trading him away was totally opposite of the rebuild process.

Only to say that his talent and youth were what we were looking for. Although they tried to keep him, they should have done more to get him to buy in prior to this fiasco. Proactive more than reactive.

I agree with you that his attitude sucked. And for that reason he had to kick rocks.

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