Trade with Texans?

Okay so this is probably in the "pipe dream" arena, but here's what I'm seeing:

PFT reports that Watson very unhappy with process of hiring both coach and GM. In fact, in another piece it's reported he wanted Bieneimy and the team did not even interview him for the opening (links).

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/07/report-deshaun-watson-advocated-for-eric-bieniemy-as-head-coach/

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/07/report-deshaun-watson-extremely-unhappy-with-texans/

Now follow my logic. Typically, a franchise that hires a new GM and head coach will look to tear down and build from the ground up. Watson's report will only reinforce that desire.

Who has the best and most assets to offer in return for Watson? Well, the Fins of course.

We have 2 first round picks, 2 second round picks, and a young franchise-caliber QB that would be cheap and allow the team to build around him.

I don't know what it would take - but Cesario and Grier are both from the Pats so they've worked together.

Here's my question: Do you trade this year's first round pick (the #3 overall), second round pick, plus Tua for DeShaun Watson?

Look at the benefits. The Texans get a young, cheap QB. Plus, they recoup their picks this year to jump start their rebuild.

The Fins get a veteran QB matching up with the phase of our rebuild. No one expected us to reach 10 wins this year. We're closer to "win now" than we are "rebuild". A blue chip veteran QB in his prime makes sense for us - maybe moreso than for the Texans.

I'm not sure there is another team that could offer the Texans this kind of deal. Jax has the draft picks, but no prospect like Tua to offer. Nor would Watson agree to that destination. I'm positive he would agree to go to Miami.

Thoughts?

I've heard that the Jets and 49ers would be VERY interested in Watson.

But, I think there is ZERO chance he gets traded.

I also think there is ZERO chance that the Phins get involved.

Given the way his contract is structured, in theory if he is going to be traded it would happen this offseason...but the new GM is not going to start his tenure by dumping a franchise QB.

As for the Phins, one thing they are trying very hard to do - and they've been very good at it so far - is keeping the cap at a manageable level. One of the ways you do that is by having a minimal salary at the highest-paid position: QB. With Tua on a rookie deal earning peanuts (in NFL terms), the team can build around him and spend money in other places. If you add Watson and his ginormous contract, starting in 2022 when his salary skyrockets (and he'll probably want a new deal too), all of a sudden you don't have the luxury of building a complete team - and you end up like the Texans with a franchise QB with nothing around him.

The Dolphins are planning to build a perennial contender - not a team that's good for a couple of years and then goes in the tank due to being in cap hell. Trading high draft picks for a huge contract is the exact opposite of what this franchise wants to do.

I'd also add: 2020 was by far Watson's best season - and the Texans went 4-12. People criticize Tua for needing everything perfect around him, but what about Watson? Hell, he won fewer games than Tua! Point being: in order to win you need to build a TEAM, not have one superstar.

Yeah, good point. Interesting.

the Herald seems to think it would take...

The Dolphins could offer this package for Watson, which would probably be the best of any team: Tua Tagovailoa, Xavien Howard and the third and 18th picks in the draft.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article248366100.html

i really, really like Watson, but that is just crazy talk.

Watson throws temper tantrums like a 2 year old. I’ll stick with Tiny Bubbles.

Intriguing, but I suspect the price is gonna be more than ANYONE can stand.

And I have to agree.... I definitely do not want a player that thinks he should be included in the team's hiring and firing decisions.

I have to laugh...reading posts on other websites where Dolfans are saying Tua is too small while simultaneously wanting to throw as many drafty picks as possible at the Texans to get Deshaun. Deshaun is about one inch taller than Tua and they weigh about the same.

Anyway, Deshaun is a selfish player and the Texans haven't won anything with him. I'll pass.

I want to see what Tua can do this upcoming season first with some weapons. I'm assuming they'll get weapons.

They have to get weapons, right? I mean, they're going to, right?

I still believe in Tua long term but if Watson is available you still have to look into it. With that said I'd be surprised if the Fins do any serious pursuing of Watson, mainly for the reasons already mentioned.  The Fins are in a great position where they are and that may improve if a QB hungry team trades for their 3rd overall pick. Personally though I don't think there are anything to these rumors at this point. The Fins are mentioned only because they have the draft capital and cap space to pull off such a major deal.

Killah Sith wrote:I still believe in Tua long term but if Watson is available you still have to look into it. With that said I'd be surprised if the Fins do any serious pursuing of Watson, mainly for the reasons already mentioned.  The Fins are in a great position where they are and that may improve if a QB hungry team trades for their 3rd overall pick.  Personally though I don't think there are anything to these rumors at this point.  The Fins are mentioned only because they have the draft capital and cap space to pull off such a major deal.

When you consider the draft pick compensation and the salary, trading for Watson doesn't match at all what the Phins are trying to accomplish. And again - adding Watson means we have much less resources to build a team around him - and as we saw in Houston, no matter how good Watson is he cannot overcome a weak roster. So yeah, not happening.

Have Grier or Flores shot this down yet? As in, issuing a public statement that no, there's not any chance in hell this is happening? Because as far as I know they haven't, which to me is very, to use Omar's favorite word, telling.

Also telling is that Watson clearly wants to play for Flores, which indicates to me he won't be nearly as militant in Miami as he is now in Houston.

Also, as much as I despise SJW-style tantrums, Watson might actually have a point. Would you be happy in your workplace if it was being run as horribly as the Texans have been lately? I can't blame him one bit for wanting out. I really can't even blame him for thinking he can actually order who the team can hire, not after seeing so many from his generation get their way by doing the same thing.

I'll put it another way. Assuming pro sports continues to be a thing (a huge assumption to make at this point) can any of you envision the Bills becoming the new Belichick-Brady Pats for the next decade or two, with the Chargers becoming the new Manning-Era Colts, and the Fins constantly being the last team out of the playoffs with a string of 9-10 win seasons that gets them nowhere? And we can all look back and conclusively say that this came about when they refused to trade for Watson or draft another QB at #3 in the 2021 offseason after Tua turns into a less athletic Tannehill?

I mean, this franchise already passed on Rodgers, Brees and Ryan when all three QBs were right there for the taking. Just sayin'.

DolFan 316 wrote:Have Grier or Flores shot this down yet? As in, issuing a public statement that no, there's not any chance in hell this is happening? Because as far as I know they haven't, which to me is very, to use Omar's favorite word, telling.

The league season doesn't start till March, so it doesn't make sense for them to say anything publicly now. You know the whole "we can only comment on players on our team" line that so many coaches/GMs have used in the past! LOL But, anonymous team "sources" did supposedly shoot down the rumor according to Armando (and also Alain Poupart) - for whatever that's worth.

And, as far as I can trace it the rumor apparently started in an article on FanDuel, of all places, and really has no merit at all.

[quote="JMP"]

DolFan 316 wrote:And, as far as I can trace it the rumor apparently started in an article on FanDuel, of all places, and really has no merit at all.  

Except for the whole Watson publicly saying he wants out and wouldn't mind being traded to Miami thing...

Commenting is one thing, but this would be explicitly saying they would NOT make a certain move. Surely that's not tampering, and it would be silly to punish any team for saying we WON'T do this or that regarding a certain player.

I do believe that Flores already feels that Tua's not the guy. Forget what he said about Tua being the starter for the finale, these days people feel like they *have* to say things like that so they won't hurt anyone's "feelings". As usual, actions speak louder than words, and there's absolutely nothing about the way Tua was handled or what he was asked to do (or more notable, NOT to do) that suggested anybody on the coaching staff had any confidence in him whatsoever. Compare that to how the Chargers handled Herbert, which was to just let him go out there and do his thing right away.

Hell, Tua was babied way more than Marino during his rookie season, when he wasn't allowed to start for five games!

I don't think it's telling at all. I don't see them tipping either direction. If Watson does make a demand to be traded or else, the Fins should look into it. Feel it out. But I don't see them trading the kings ransom that Houston will rightfully expect in return.

I'd offer them a 1st and a 2nd for Watson, then wait awhile, then Trade them Tua for the 1st back and a player .

I mean, they've shown they'll allow us to screw them in the past.

DolFan 316 wrote:

JMP wrote:

DolFan 316 wrote:And, as far as I can trace it the rumor apparently started in an article on FanDuel, of all places, and really has no merit at all.  

Except for the whole Watson publicly saying he wants out and wouldn't mind being traded to Miami thing...

Commenting is one thing, but this would be explicitly saying they would NOT make a certain move. Surely that's not tampering, and it would be silly to punish any team for saying we WON'T do this or that regarding a certain player.

I do believe that Flores already feels that Tua's not the guy. Forget what he said about Tua being the starter for the finale, these days people feel like they *have* to say things like that so they won't hurt anyone's "feelings". As usual, actions speak louder than words, and there's absolutely nothing about the way Tua was handled or what he was asked to do (or more notable, NOT to do) that suggested anybody on the coaching staff had any confidence in him whatsoever. Compare that to how the Chargers handled Herbert, which was to just let him go out there and do his thing right away.

Hell, Tua was babied way more than Marino during his rookie season, when he wasn't allowed to start for five games!

Disagree on all of that.

First, when did Watson publicly mention the Dolphins? He didn't. All I heard that there was "speculation" that Watson would consider a trade to the Dolphins. Really, nothing more than fake news from some unknown "source". Fact is, we have no idea if Watson wants out or if he has any interest in Miami.

Second, the Dolphins are not going to respond to some made up rumor that really has nothing to do with them - nor should they.

Finally, Tua is the Miami Dolphins QB moving forward. Everything Flores has said and done backs that up. Anything else is, again, fake news. The Dolphins are committed to Tua, as they should be after the stats and wins he put up in what was really an impossible situation.

And you think Tua was babied??? Really??? He was thrown into the fire against one of the league's best defenses in his first game, after just a week and a half of practice with the starters. He played most of his games with a receiving corps that was put together with Scotch tape and spit, a group of practice squad and backup RBs and an offensive coordinator that knew nothing about him and ran a system built for someone else. And, he was benched not once but twice. All in a season where there was no preseason and he had just missed a year with a major injury! And you think he was babied???

Looking back, it is nothing short of miraculous that Tua played as well as he did and the Dolphins actually went 6-3 in games he started.

Okay it's time to revive this thread and I'm weighing in again.

Per Adam Schefter and twitter just this morning, Watson actually requested a trade weeks ago but now it's official. Also adds, the new head coach will do nothing to change his mind. Watson is upset with ownership and the shadowy Easterby front office resident. The coach, the GM do nothing to change that.

Here's my opinion and I'm not going to put a fine point on it. If you're Grier and Flores, and the Texans are entertaining trade offers, you HAVE TO do it. Find a way to get Watson in Miami.

Here's why.

25 year old franchise QBs don't become available. Ever. This is a white whale. The normal rules do not apply. You answer the biggest question mark on the team in one move, and not for a few years - for 8 years, 10 years, longer. As long as Watson stays healthy, you have solved the position every team struggles to fill until they find the next Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers, or Brees.

Flores just proved that working with Grier, in two years they put together a playoff-caliber defense that ranked top in scoring through 15 weeks. The Buffalo offense is solvable, as the Chiefs proved, so I don't expect them to present a long term unwinnable problem.

I know we just drafted Tua. He did not play like a franchise QB and might never be one. No one can tell you that. What I can tell you is Watson is proven, young and available. I take Watson all day, simply due to the risk statement that Tua might NEVER be as good, as much as we all hope and pray he will be.

There's a rumor that X Howard might need to be traded to get this done. So? I move a cover corner in trade for a franchise QB in a heart beat. Plus, Howard wants a new contract so make the Texans give it to him. Watson will be playing long after Howard has moved to safety or retired. QBs have much longer careers, a corner can only play so long - they lose a step and it's over. Plus, do I need to remind you he was on the field for the losses we suffered this year where we gave up a ton of points? We already have Howard, Jones and Iggy in the backfield. Plus players like Needham, McCain an Rowe who have also proven extremely valuable in covering TEs, making plays at safety and manning the slot / nickel role. The element we need is better pass rush pressure, that comes from the line and linebackers.

Again, hope I didn't put too fine a point on it. I'm all in for Watson. If he goes to the Jets... well I'm going to be very upset.

A couple links:

PFT reporting the trade request: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/28/reports-deshaun-watson-has-requested-a-trade/

North Jersey has it right, the Jets should be all in on Watson. So should we. https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nfl/jets/2021/01/18/ny-jets-should-trade-for-deshaun-watson/4203948001/

Oh and one more thing. Several analysts like Darnold over Tua. I don't necessarily share that view, but it only underscores the risk in my mind. He might never be as good as Watson has proven to be. Think about that.

I appreciate your thought process, white, but the Dolphins didn't put themselves in the position they're in now to blow it all up in a blockbuster trade for a high-$ QB that has never won anything.

The Phins are all-in on Tua...he is the starter and they are going to build the team around him - starting with the QB coach they just hired.

I appreciate your thought process, white, but the Dolphins didn't put themselves in the position they're in now to blow it all up in a blockbuster trade for a high-$ QB that has never won anything.

I can totally see this point of view also.

Here's my take. There really should be no debate about Watson's talent, especially after 2020 following the Texans laughable trade of Hopkins to AZ. With little in the way of weaponry, he STILL delivered a potent passing game on offense. Unfortunately the defense, running game, and coaching left the team ill equipped to win much of anything.

I don't see how the acquisition of a blue chip caliber QB equates to destroying the roster. We still have a solid defense to build on, even if we trade Howard in the deal. We are not paying ANY skill position players on offense at a premium rate, so the QB should be the first player we do that for.

And regardless of the draft capital we need to give to Houston, I'm confident we still come out ahead. Look at it this way, if it's two first round picks, plus Howard and Tua, would you trade Austin Jackson and Iggy plus those two for Watson? I would. A franchise QB is just way too valuable, and better than a LT, two corners and a lesser QB combined. Look at last offseason, corners like Logan Ryan and Bradberry were available, and each played well - analytics say both are on the level or better than Byron Jones. My point is you can patch secondaries and offensive linemen all day in free agency, you can't do that at QB. Unless you're really excited about the future of Jacoby Brissett, or Andy Dalton.

In that hypothetical, we still have two second round picks and next year's full draft to build around Watson - plus free agency. Btw, Fuller is a free agent and one with a failed drug test, so he cannot command a premium and may be the perfect addition to our offense.

It's too hard to find a franchise QB, and there's too much risk that Tua may not be one. I think the Fins need to do what it takes to make this happen.

If they don't and it works out for us... well, I'll be happy to eat my words!

Full disclosure: I don't KNOW that I'm right, but my current thinking is we need to make the trade.

Reading Twitter today... analysts are split. Louis Riddick (I like him alot, should be a GM soon) says ride with Tua and make the draft picks. Todd McShay agrees with him.

Hyde says team should go all in for Watson.

No consensus at this point. Open for debate.

WHEN the Fins trade for Watson, I honestly fear for Jmp's well being. Not even joking.

white1 wrote:

Here's my take.  There really should be no debate about Watson's talent, especially after 2020 following the Texans laughable trade of Hopkins to AZ.  With little in the way of weaponry, he STILL delivered a potent passing game on offense.  Unfortunately the defense, running game, and coaching left the team ill equipped to win much of anything.

I don't see how the acquisition of a blue chip caliber QB equates to destroying the roster.  We still have a solid defense to build on, even if we trade Howard in the deal.  We are not paying ANY skill position players on offense at a premium rate, so the QB should be the first player we do that for.  

And regardless of the draft capital we need to give to Houston, I'm confident we still come out ahead.  Look at it this way, if it's two first round picks, plus Howard and Tua, would you trade Austin Jackson and Iggy plus those two for Watson? I would.  A franchise QB is just way too valuable, and better than a LT, two corners and a lesser QB combined.  Look at last offseason, corners like Logan Ryan and Bradberry were available, and each played well - analytics say both are on the level or better than Byron Jones.  My point is you can patch secondaries and offensive linemen all day in free agency, you can't do that at QB.  Unless you're really excited about the future of Jacoby Brissett, or Andy Dalton.

In that hypothetical, we still have two second round picks and next year's full draft to build around Watson - plus free agency.  Btw, Fuller is a free agent and one with a failed drug test, so he cannot command a premium and may be the perfect addition to our offense.

It's too hard to find a franchise QB, and there's too much risk that Tua may not be one.  I think the Fins need to do what it takes to make this happen.

Is Watson a good QB? Sure, statistically he's great. But is he a franchise QB? I'd say the jury is out. We're talking about a QB that never won more than 11 games in the regular season, has won just one playoff game, and is coming off a 4-win season. So yeah, the numbers are pretty...but it hasn't exactly equated to success. He had arguably the best WR in football in 2018 and 2019...and really has nothing to show for it.

Plus, he's a me-first, selfish whiner. Is that what Flores wants in his locker room? Nope...it's the exact opposite of what he wants. The guy was all about Houston when he signed his ginormous contract extension (which he signed after the Hopkins trade) and now a year later he wants out? Yeah, no thanks. I'm not trading the farm for a guy that acts like that.

Acquiring Watson means we are no longer acquiring a top-rated receiver in the draft or free agency. It means we are not re-signing Gesicki,. It means losing Howard, which would be a crushing blow to the defense - and no, you aren't just replacing X with a guy off the street. Yes, we are building a nice defense...but it's not going to look nice for long when we lack the resources to improve it.

The Dolphins have worked their asses off to get where they are right now. They have a long-range plan, and it is already paying dividends way ahead of schedule. Why in the world would they abandon that plan by trading tons of picks and ruining the cap for a selfish player that has never won a damn thing??? They drafted Tua for a reason, and they're not going to dump him and change course just because crybaby Watson might be available.

Remember...Grier and Flores traded Minkah Fitzpatrick because he was a me-first whiner. They're not trading away tons of picks and players to acquire another me-first whiner.

DolFan 316 wrote:WHEN the Fins trade for Watson, I honestly fear for Jmp's well being. Not even joking.

There is literally zero chance that the Dolphins trade for Watson...ZERO. They already have a starting QB, and they have stockpiled draft picks to build a TEAM - not a one-man show.

BTW, listening to NY sports radio, all the Jets AND Giants fans think they're getting Watson. And then I turned on NFL Radio and heard Bears fans saying that they're getting Watson. This whole thing is such a joke. All a bunch of BS.