This Is Interesting...

by DolFan 316 Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:16 pm

https://dolphinswire.usatoday.com/2021/06/01/june-1st-brings-chance-to-change-gears-for-dolphins-cap-allocation/

The Fins have a larger percentage of cap room dedicated to WR than any other team. Hmmm... scratch

I can see Jmp sitting crosslegged chanting the mantra, "Please release Grant, please release Grant..." I also picture incense being involved somehow.

I'm not inclined to root for anybody to lose a job right now but I also cannot see how Grant, Wilson, Hurns or some combo of the three don't get released. Something has to be done to make the cap situation work. Otherwise you can kiss any further signings goodbye, Ingram or otherwise.

by Degarmo Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:41 pm

Grant and Hurns are now completely expendable, in my opinion. However, I don't know what the cap implications are of getting rid of them via release.

by Umix10 Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:14 pm

i think Hurns and Wilson are expendable. There is value at KR/PR for Grant. He has that and i don't want spending my 1st rounder into a possibly unsafe predicament. Waddle was brought here to make plays on offense. Grant could spell him and the team wouldnt be in a situation to force grant to play on offense. Id waive or trade Wilson and Hurns. Keep Waddle Parker, Fuller, Williams Foster, Grant and Bowden. Hollins should be on the team for his special teams play. Perry is should be on the practice squad.

by **JMP** Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:58 am

DolFan 316 wrote:https://dolphinswire.usatoday.com/2021/06/01/june-1st-brings-chance-to-change-gears-for-dolphins-cap-allocation/

The Fins have a larger percentage of cap room dedicated to WR than any other team. Hmmm...

I can see Jmp sitting crosslegged chanting the mantra, "Please release Grant, please release Grant..." I also picture incense being involved somehow.

I'm not inclined to root for anybody to lose a job right now but I also cannot see how Grant, Wilson, Hurns or some combo of the three don't get released. Something has to be done to make the cap situation work. Otherwise you can kiss any further signings goodbye, Ingram or otherwise.

I do burn incense from time to time...

I could be wrong, but I think Jakeem Grant and Robert Foster will battle for one WR spot...the winner will be the team's primary returner, the loser will be gone.

Wilson is intriguing, because I think his skillset fits Tua very well. Hurns is cheap, and has a chance to stick for that reason alone - but neither he nor Wilson plays special teams as far as I know, which puts both in trouble.

Looking at the roster, my early guess is 7 keepers:
Parker
Williams
Fuller
Waddle
Wilson
Bowden
Foster

Practice squad: Perry, Locksley

Cut/traded:
Hollins
Grant
Hurns
Merritt

I wanted to find a way to keep Hollins because he is such a beast on STs and can also play TE, but I couldn't find a spot just yet. But - there's a chance that Wilson and Bowden are battling for the same spot. If that's the case, the loser gets cut/traded and Hollins makes it.

Regardless, health is the key for this WR unit. It could be a truly excellent group...but there's a lot of injury history there.

by DolFan 316 Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:00 pm

No way is this team (or any team) keeping as many as 7 WRs. And what's so special about this Robert Foster guy anyway that you have him beating out Grant and making the team? If Grant's cut for being too expensive and failing to foresee the cap shrinking when he agreed to his current contract then so be it, but don't go through the pretense of him "losing" a competition for returner to someone who's clearly inferior at the job just because of money and then act like that was the reason he's gone.

I also don't know why Williams is getting a free pass to a roster spot either with his 52.6% career catch percentage. Talk about drops! Grant's catch percentage is nearly 10 points higher BTW. Some players go undrafted for a reason.

by DolFan 316 Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:05 pm

Umix10 wrote:i think Hurns and Wilson are expendable. There is value at KR/PR for Grant. He has that and i don't want spending my 1st rounder into a possibly unsafe predicament. Waddle was brought here to make plays on offense. Grant could spell him and the team wouldnt be in a situation to force grant to play on offense. Id waive or trade Wilson and Hurns. Keep Waddle Parker, Fuller, Williams Foster, Grant and Bowden. Hollins should be on the team for his special teams play. Perry is should be on the practice squad.

IMO Grant has more value than someone like Williams who only catches slightly more than half the passes thrown to him and has yet to prove he can stay healthy for more than half a season. It's time for DolFans to stop pretending this guy's secretly a Hall Of Famer in the making that somehow every other team whiffed on.

by **JMP** Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:44 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:No way is this team (or any team) keeping as many as 7 WRs. And what's so special about this Robert Foster guy anyway that you have him beating out Grant and making the team? If Grant's cut for being too expensive and failing to foresee the cap shrinking when he agreed to his current contract then so be it, but don't go through the pretense of him "losing" a competition for returner to someone who's clearly inferior at the job just because of money and then act like that was the reason he's gone.

I also don't know why Williams is getting a free pass to a roster spot either with his 52.6% career catch percentage. Talk about drops! Grant's catch percentage is nearly 10 points higher BTW. Some players go undrafted for a reason.

Looking at the injury history, I think it would be a mistake NOT to keep 7 receivers. You also have to keep special teams in mind.

As for Grant vs. Foster - Foster's rookie season with Buffalo was better than any season Grant has ever had as a receiver: 27 catches, 541 yards, 20 yards per catch, 3 TDs. Now, he hasn't done anything of note since 2018 - but Grant hasn't exactly lit up the league either. Foster is also a very good STs player on coverage teams, and can also return. Yes, Grant is the better returner...but looking at the total package is he $4 million better??? We'll see. Keep in mind that Foster played a bit with Tua at Alabama. I won't be surprised at all if Foster outplays Grant this summer.

As for Williams, he was becoming Tua's favorite target before he got hurt, and his talent is off the charts. If he ever stays healthy, he has potential to be a dominant receiver. You don't give up on a guy like that unless you absolutely have to. He's dirt cheap and if healthy will compete for a starting job.

by **JMP** Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:53 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:
Umix10 wrote:i think Hurns and Wilson are expendable. There is value at KR/PR for Grant. He has that and i don't want spending my 1st rounder into a possibly unsafe predicament. Waddle was brought here to make plays on offense. Grant could spell him and the team wouldnt be in a situation to force grant to play on offense. Id waive or trade Wilson and Hurns. Keep Waddle Parker, Fuller, Williams Foster, Grant and Bowden. Hollins should be on the team for his special teams play. Perry is should be on the practice squad.

IMO Grant has more value than someone like Williams who only catches slightly more than half the passes thrown to him and has yet to prove he can stay healthy for more than half a season. It's time for DolFans to stop pretending this guy's secretly a Hall Of Famer in the making that somehow every other team whiffed on.

No one is saying Williams is a Hall of Famer - but he could be the top receiver on this team.

In 16 games, Williams has 7 receiving TDs. In 66 games, Grant has 5 receiving TDs. And while Grant is supposed to be a deep threat, he has a career yards per catch of 11.3 yards...below 10.5 in each of the past two seasons. Williams averages over 14 yards a catch.

Both players have poor hands - we know that. But Williams is still raw...he's played the equivalent of one full season. Grant has been around long enough to assume that he is what he is.

And when it comes to injuries...well, Grant has gotten hurt in each of the past 3 seasons so he's not exactly an iron man.

Bottom line: Grant is a great returner and a poor receiver. Are his return skills worth his $4.6 million cap hit this year? I'd say no - especially if the Phins decide to use Waddle as a punt returner.

For me, it all comes down to value. There's a ton of value in Williams...not so much in Grant.

by DolFan 316 Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:03 pm

JMP wrote:As for Grant vs. Foster - Foster's rookie season with Buffalo was better than any season Grant has ever had as a receiver: 27 catches, 541 yards, 20 yards per catch, 3 TDs. Now, he hasn't done anything of note since 2018 - but Grant hasn't exactly lit up the league either. Foster is also a very good STs player on coverage teams, and can also return. Yes, Grant is the better returner...but looking at the total package is he $4 million better??? We'll see. Keep in mind that Foster played a bit with Tua at Alabama. I won't be surprised at all if Foster outplays Grant this summer.

Again, no team's keeping a 7th WR for special teams coverage. Or at least, I've never heard of it being done. Remember, the reason why I even posted the link is because the Fins are already sinking more into their cap at WR than any other team. That strongly suggests they're more likely to be carrying five guys into the season, not seven. If Foster outplays Grant legit, that's one thing. But I can't see that happening, especially not in the now very limited time teams have to evaluate everyone before a season. I just don't want this to be another Joe Nedney/Pete Stoyanovich situation where the guy being paid more just *happened* to lose the "competition" and then the player who was supposedly so much better actually stunk.

As for Williams, he was becoming Tua's favorite target before he got hurt, and his talent is off the charts. If he ever stays healthy, he has potential to be a dominant receiver. You don't give up on a guy like that unless you absolutely have to. He's dirt cheap and if healthy will compete for a starting job.

I would say if Williams only stays healthy for half a season again and only catches around half the passes thrown to him again, this should be his last chance. There are first round picks these days who don't to stay with the team that drafted them after two seasons like Williams just had. It's time for him to shit or get off the pot.

by **JMP** Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:24 pm

The Phins kept Hollins last year solely for special teams coverage. He ended up playing TE and WR due to injuries, but he initially made the team as a STs-only player.

I can definitely see Foster outperforming Grant...it won't be that difficult. But we'll see.

by **JMP** Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:27 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:

I would say if Williams only stays healthy for half a season again and only catches around half the passes thrown to him again, this should be his last chance. There are first round picks these days who don't to stay with the team that drafted them after two seasons like Williams just had. It's time for him to shit or get off the pot.

Oh, I agree. This is year 3 - he needs to stay healthy. But he is not comparable to a first round bust - first, he's dirt cheap, and second, he has produced...7 TDs in 16 games is nothing to dismiss.

by finfanatic Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:52 pm

JMP wrote:Looking at the roster, my early guess is 7 keepers:
Parker
Williams
Fuller
Waddle
Wilson
Bowden
Foster

Practice squad: Perry, Locksley

Cut/traded:
Hollins
Grant
Hurns
Merritt

I think they keep Perry on the active roster and use him for KRs. Wilson has one more bugaboo and he is out. I am unclear on Foster.

Hollins at least showed UP some down the stretch when the Phins WR Corp looked like a group of walking wounded!

Williams - He has such POTENTIAL, but never seems to live up to it. I have often heard "potential" will get coaches fired as quick as picking bad players. All a player with potential is... is a player who hasn't shown he can do it. And how many chances does a player get before you realize all he has is "potential" and no playing ability?

by **JMP** Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:31 pm

finfanatic wrote:

Williams - He has such POTENTIAL, but never seems to live up to it. I have often heard "potential" will get coaches fired as quick as picking bad players. All a player with potential is... is a player who hasn't shown he can do it. And how many chances does a player get before you realize all he has is "potential" and no playing ability?

It's different when you are talking about an undrafted player that costs the team essentially nothing against the cap. Williams has put up good numbers and produced like a legit starter when he is on the field. He's raw, but he has shown that he belongs. He's absolutely shown "playing ability" - now he has to stay healthy. But a guy with that level of talent, making peanuts? He's a keeper, all day.

by Umix10 Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:32 pm

Williams on the roster is what I had guessed but thinking about it. I think he only stays if the plan is to trade Parker or let him walk.

If Parker stays healthy, then Williams doesn't see the field as much. With Fuller, Waddle and Gesicki, I don't see how the scheme asks for him to go in as a 5 wide and even if they did I'd use Wilson over Williams. With Special teams being a big part of this group I think Hollins stays. They can find a returner, my guess would be Bowden

by **JMP** Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:20 pm

Umix10 wrote:Williams on the roster is what I had guessed but thinking about it. I think he only stays if the plan is to trade Parker or let him walk.

If Parker stays healthy, then Williams doesn't see the field as much. With Fuller, Waddle and Gesicki, I don't see how the scheme asks for him to go in as a 5 wide and even if they did I'd use Wilson over Williams. With Special teams being a big part of this group I think Hollins stays. They can find a returner, my guess would be Bowden

Williams is a lock this year, because the only other legit boundary receivers are Fuller and Parker. Waddle will play outside as well, but he is primarily a slot. A healthy Williams is the 3rd outside receiver and will see plenty of snaps.

Really, the outside/inside distinction may not matter much, as I expect the 'multiple' formations Miami uses to feature every receiver lining up in different places depending on situation. All of the primary receivers have the versatility to move around the formation.

by mercury22nathan Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:56 am

JMP wrote:Williams is a lock this year, because the only other legit boundary receivers are Fuller and Parker. Waddle will play outside as well, but he is primarily a slot. A healthy Williams is the 3rd outside receiver and will see plenty of snaps.

Williams first and foremost priority is to get (and stay) healthy.

Preston Williams was working on the side, as he continues to work his way back from foot surgery.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article251461328.html

i wouldn't be surprised if he's not full go in training camp and begins the season on the PUP.

by **JMP** Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:14 am

mercury22nathan wrote:
JMP wrote:Williams is a lock this year, because the only other legit boundary receivers are Fuller and Parker. Waddle will play outside as well, but he is primarily a slot. A healthy Williams is the 3rd outside receiver and will see plenty of snaps.

Williams first and foremost priority is to get (and stay) healthy.

Preston Williams was working on the side, as he continues to work his way back from foot surgery.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article251461328.html

i wouldn't be surprised if he's not full go in training camp and begins the season on the PUP.

Starting the season on PUP may not be a bad thing for Williams. As you say, merc - getting healthy is step one for him.

by CarsonChris Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:41 am

Based on injury history we probably use 10 receivers this year. Waddle is still limping. Not a good sign 12 weeks from the start of the season. Williams won't make it through a season. Parker is good for 10 games. Fuller is good for 10 games. Based on past history 3 of the projected 4 starters won't make it through the season and the 4th is still limping from last years injury. Some people still think Grier is doing a good job putting together a team. When that team misses significant playing time it's problematic. This has been and continues to be an issue for Miami.

by **JMP** Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:09 pm

CarsonChris wrote:Based on injury history we probably use 10 receivers this year. Waddle is still limping. Not a good sign 12 weeks from the start of the season. Williams won't make it through a season. Parker is good for 10 games. Fuller is good for 10 games. Based on past history 3 of the projected 4 starters won't make it through the season and the 4th is still limping from last years injury. Some people still think Grier is doing a good job putting together a team. When that team misses significant playing time it's problematic. This has been and continues to be an issue for Miami.

Parker has started at least 13 games in 5 of his 6 seasons. He started 11 in the other season. His issue isn't missing games...it's the fact that when he is banged up his production drops like a stone - and he is frequently banged up.

Yes, injuries are always a concern. Injuries are impossible to predict, but they are a part of the game and every team has to deal with them. The best teams have quality depth so they can overcome those injuries.

by CarsonChris Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:35 pm

Parker playing 13 games per season is on the books but how many games is he a non factor because he plays multiple games with an injury that hampers his performance on the field?

by **JMP** Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:19 pm

CarsonChris wrote:Parker playing 13 games per season is on the books but how many games is he a non factor because he plays multiple games with an injury that hampers his performance on the field?

That's what I said - his issue isn't missing games, it is being ineffective in games when he is banged up. That's why we need real depth behind him and the other receivers.

Grier has made a strong effort to build competition and depth at WR this offseason - we'll see if it pays off.

by Killah Sith Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:37 pm

It'll be interesting to see how many they do keep and while I agree that 7 is a possibility, it's highly unlikely. Especially considering that they will be keeping at least four tight ends.

I think Williams sticks but I agree that it's going to be an important year for him to stay healthy and to improve his hands. And he's going to have to do so with less opportunities.

Fulller, Parker, Waddle are the locks. I believe Williams and and Bowden are right behind them as I don't see them cutting either, especially Bowden. So there is your 5. If they keep 6 it comes down to Wilson, Hollins, Grant, or Perry.

I can see the possibility of them parting ways with Williams and keeping Hollins. I think they will take a look at Wilson during camp then make a decision. I believe Grant is most likely gone, especially if Iggy or Hollond can return kicks.

by **JMP** Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:50 pm

Killah Sith wrote:It'll be interesting to see how many they do keep and while I agree that 7 is a possibility, it's highly unlikely. Especially considering that they will be keeping at least four tight ends.

TE will be interesting. They may only keep three, since both Cethan Carter and Mack Hollins can play the position if needed (if Hollins makes the team).

So the question is...who is the odd man out: Smythe or Shaheen? Smythe is set to hit free agency after this season, while Shaheen is signed to a cheap deal for 2022. That could make Smythe the loser, unless he clearly outperforms Shaheen this summer.

by DolFan 316 Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:15 pm

Did the roster size recently get expanded? I thought I heard that somewhere. Because if it's still 53 I just can't see how 7 WRs is going to work. Some other position would have to get short shrift and the way players get injured these days that's a dangerous game...

by **JMP** Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:22 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:Did the roster size recently get expanded? I thought I heard that somewhere. Because if it's still 53 I just can't see how 7 WRs is going to work. Some other position would have to get short shrift and the way players get injured these days that's a dangerous game...

Yeah, it's a tough call. Thinking about it more I'm guessing they'll go with 6 receivers. But I do think 7 is a possibility depending on what they do with special teams. Assuming the same practice squad rules as last season apply, that could give them added flexibility with who they keep/cut.

As far as roster size, I don't think anything changed for the regular season - but in pre-season, teams can keep 90 players right up till the final cut.

by Sponsored content

This Is Interesting...

This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...

Re: This Is Interesting...