Tua's career on the line

Every game in the NFL is a chance to show you've got the right stuff. Tua is still basically a rookie but it is year 2 for his development. The Dolphins are currently one of the worst teams in the NFL and Tua has had 1 start and 2 drives in year 2. A disastrous finish to this year and Miami might be looking at shuffling the deck yet again.

Tua needs to start showing he's a capable NFL QB. Wins and losses are important but not as important as how he looks.

Tua needs to show he has the ability to be accurate with deep and intermediate throws. These throws haven't been part of Tua's repertoire but are part of every capable NFL QB's game. What Tua did in college is irrelevant.

Tua needs to start leading his receivers so the receiver can accumulate YAC.

Tua's longest pass has been 35 yards. This is a reflection of the two items noted above. His throws have been a little late and he hasn't pushed the ball down the field.

Tua needs to start passing the eyeball test. The game he was knocked out of he audibled into a play that left the left side of the line with more pass rushers than pass protectors. Tua needs to show he can read a defense.

Wins and losses may be out of his control with the pathetic defense Miami has exhibited but how he looks on the field may decide if the team structure stays in place and how a possible regime change views him.

Ridiculous to say that Tua's career is on the line when he has put up an excellent TD-turnover ratio and won games while starting for less than a season.  The league is full of starting QBs that either didn't play for years or who absolutely sucked early on:
--Aaron Rodgers rode the bench for 4 years
--Josh Allen was a trainwreck and one of the worst QBs in the league as a rookie
--Pat Mahomes rode the bench for a year
--Sam Darnold was considered a bust after 3 years
--Matt Stafford was horrific as a rookie
--How are Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields and Mac Jones looking so far?  Not as good as Tua, I'll tell you that much.

I could go on with many more examples both past and present, but the point is, Tua was better than all those guys starting out.  This narrative that Tua sucks is an absolute joke and is based on absolutely nothing.  As I've said many times, we live in a Veruca Salt "I want it now!" world that is guided by fake news on social media. In this case, reality does not match the narrative that is being spun.

Tua's biggest problem is that he's on a crap team with a crap coaching staff.  But that's not his fault.

EDIT: Ah, now I see...this latest "Tua's career is in trouble" garbage comes from the King of Bullshit himself, Colin Cowherd. I should have guessed.

Josh Allen had 20 TD 9 picks year 2. That's not garbage. He also had long pass plays 75 yards. 55-56 yards. Chunk plays. Momentum plays. Put the defense on their heels.

Year 3 Josh Allen got his team to the AFC championship game.

Josh Allen had longer runs in each of his first 2 years than Tua has had pass plays.

We have to play the Bills twice a year and they have a bigger stronger faster QB. He can beat teams with a deep ball and with his legs. Can Tua compete?

CarsonChris wrote:Josh Allen had 20 TD 9 picks year 2. That's not garbage. He also had long pass plays 75 yards. 55-56 yards. Chunk plays. Momentum plays. Put the defense on their heels.

Yes, in year 2 - after stinking up the joint as a rookie. Tua has not had a chance to play much in year 2 - and so far in his one game all he's done is become the youngest QB ever to beat Bill Belichick in New England.

What Tua accomplished as a rookie, coming off a major injury with no real offseason or preseason and playing in a system designed for someone else with backup-level receivers, should be looked at as a sign of great things to come. Instead, all anyone wants to do is run him out of town. It is absolutely mind-boggling to me that seemingly half the fanbase (if not more) has already given up on him, when he's done absolutely nothing to warrant all this hatred. The team has set him up to fail, and he's still achieved success that many of the league's top QBs couldn't match at the same point in their careers.

CarsonChris wrote:
We have to play the Bills twice a year and they have a bigger stronger faster QB. He can beat teams with a deep ball and with his legs. Can Tua compete?

The Miami Dolphins as currently constituted cannot beat the Bills. It doesn't matter if the QB is Dan Marino, Justin Herbert or Tua Tagovailoa - the Dolphins are not going to compete with the Bills at this point. That's a Dolphins problem - not a Tua problem. Tua can't play OL or defense.

JMP wrote:As I've said many times, we live in a Veruca Salt "I want it now!" world that is guided by fake news on social media.

Did someone say Veruca Salt?

JMP wrote:What Tua accomplished as a rookie, coming off a major injury with no real offseason or preseason and playing in a system designed for someone else with backup-level receivers, should be looked at as a sign of great things to come.  Instead, all anyone wants to do is run him out of town.

If he looks horrible against an 0-5 team who arguably has less respect for their coach than the Fins do, I'll start greasing up the rail. CC can get the tar and feathers

Tua has a perfect opportunity to save the season. The upcoming schedule is as soft as it can possibly be, and if this team can go on even a little winning streak, people will start thinking he's not so bad after all.

Or he can confirm what a lot of people think, it really is up to him. #heartsandminds

Something everyone seems to be overlooking is that the 2023 crop of QB prospects is apparently hot garbage burning in a dumpster fire. The alleged top one (Spencer Rattler) actually got benched and saw his backup lead his team from 21 down to win. My point is, the Fins are stuck with Tua for at least one more season no matter what he does, or doesn't do. Unless...

But no, I won't go there out of respect for Jmp. And our collective sanity.

DolFan 316 wrote:

Tua has a perfect opportunity to save the season. The upcoming schedule is as soft as it can possibly be, and if this team can go on even a little winning streak, people will start thinking he's not so bad after all.

I wouldn't expect Tua or Superman or anyone else to "save the season". This season is over, due to the horrific OL and offensive coaching staff.

I'm not sure how "soft" the schedule is when every opponent we'll face has circled the Dolphins game on their schedule and written 'easy win' next to it.

JMP wrote:I wouldn't expect Tua or Superman or anyone else to "save the season".  This season is over, due to the horrific OL and offensive coaching staff.  

I'm not sure how "soft" the schedule is when every opponent we'll face has circled the Dolphins game on their schedule and written 'easy win' next to it.

That's my point though, if Tua can't beat this season's Jags or Jets or Falcons or Giants, then who CAN he beat? He gets to escape the blame for the Raiders and Colts losses (two more teams who are mediocre at best) but if he starts losing to other bottom 5 teams then people will quite rightfully pronounce him as a bust. You can't use his injury as an excuse when Tua himself has said he's good to go. This is actually the softest schedule this team's had in years. In fact the last time it was this soft they started 1-4...and made the playoffs even with a blowout loss to the Ravens later. It's still possible, but Tua has to do his part.

One way or another a definitive statement will be made, by Tua and the team.

[quote="DolFan 316"]

JMP wrote:

if Tua can't beat this season's Jags or Jets or Falcons or Giants, then who CAN he beat?

So when Tua gets a win, it's not because of him. But when Tua takes a loss, it's all on him. Got it - exactly what I thought.

BTW - I would argue that the Falcons and Giants are better than the Phins...their offenses should light up the Miami D.

JMP wrote:

DolFan 316 wrote:

JMP wrote:

if Tua can't beat this season's Jags or Jets or Falcons or Giants, then who CAN he beat?  

So when Tua gets a win, it's not because of him.  But when Tua takes a loss, it's all on him.  Got it - exactly what I thought.

BTW - I would argue that the Falcons and Giants are better than the Phins...their offenses should light up the Miami D.

Making excuses for Tua already I see So let me get this straight...if he can't get a single win as a starter the rest of this season because all the other teams are just better, that makes him...somehow secretly good?

I mean, if you already expect the Fins to lose out then why not just leave Brissett in there or trot out Sinnett to see what he has?

DolFan 316 wrote:

I mean, if you already expect the Fins to lose out then why not just leave Brissett in there or trot out Sinnett to see what he has?

Sounds like you are the one making excuses - if Tua wins, it's because it was against bad teams. Right???

And your question makes no sense...why would you start your backups over the starter if the starter is healthy?

I just want to see Tua look like a franchise player. Something that gives me hope. A few long balls and hitting receivers in stride would go a long way. String a few 300 yard 3 TD games together.

CarsonChris wrote:I just want to see Tua look like a franchise player. Something that gives me hope. A few long balls and hitting receivers in stride would go a long way. String a few 300 yard 3 TD games together.

That's fair - but it's not all about stats, especially in this piss-poor offense. I would love to see him put up consistent numbers like that - I just don't know how realistic it is with a trainwreck OL and clown-show playcalling. We'll see...

CarsonChris wrote:I just want to see Tua look like a franchise player. Something that gives me hope. A few long balls and hitting receivers in stride would go a long way. String a few 300 yard 3 TD games together.

I doubt Flores would LET Tua or the OC call a game where Tua would get 300 yards passing.

Flores will not endanger his Defense like that!!!

I am starting to wonder if we may be seeing some Wannstedt-isms in Flores kinda-sorta?

Sad to say... We all HOPED Flores was re-building the culture...But Three years with three different O-line coaches and OCs!!!

Once, Maybe it is them; twice, okay, a slime chance it is them; but THREE TIMES??? It all YOU, buddy!!!

I think we have to face the fact that Flores is not kicking these OCs to the curb so much as they are getting away from a Defensive-minded HC who is ham-stringing the
Offense to protect his defense.

Seeing the Phins win a few games last season with stout D and QB who passed for less than 100 yards was EXACTLY what Flores wanted to see IMO.

Just like the Ravens SB win with a stellar defense and crappy offense was exactly what Wannstedt wanted to see. He KNEW he was on the right path and stuck with a noodle-armed QB and traded too much for a Puffy RB to protect his defense.

Somebody tell me I am wrong here?

finfanatic wrote:
I doubt Flores would LET Tua or the OC call a game where Tua would get 300 yards passing.

Flores will not endanger his Defense like that!!!

I am starting to wonder if we may be seeing some Wannstedt-isms in Flores kinda-sorta?

Sad to say... We all HOPED Flores was re-building the culture...But Three years with three different O-line coaches and OCs!!!

Once, Maybe it is them; twice, okay, a slime chance it is them; but THREE TIMES???  It all YOU, buddy!!!

I think we have to face the fact that Flores is not kicking these OCs to the curb so much as they are getting away from a Defensive-minded HC who is ham-stringing the
Offense to protect his defense.

Seeing the Phins win a few games last season with stout D and QB who passed for less than 100 yards was EXACTLY what Flores wanted to see IMO.

Just like the Ravens SB win with a stellar defense and crappy offense was exactly what Wannstedt wanted to see. He KNEW he was on the right path and stuck with a noodle-armed QB and traded too much for a Puffy RB to protect his defense.

Somebody tell me I am wrong here?

I would love to tell you you're wrong...but I can't. You may very well be on the mark. Maybe all Flores wants is a safe offense that doesn't turn the ball over, and he expects his defense to do the heavy lifting?

Whatever the case, it's been an epic fail.

Right now I don't care about wins. I've kissed a winning season goodbye. I just want to see a marked improvement. Stats do matter to a degree. More yards tend to equate to more points. I would like to see Tua finish top 15 in passing yards for the last 12 games. Our passing offense is averaging 190 yards a game. If Tua can average 275 per game that puts him in the middle of the pack. As far as 300 yard games, Tua may need those just to keep us close.

I crunched some numbers. These are based on 2019 totals. The average for all games played was 252 yards passing per game. Call that 16th place. I would like to see Tua's passing stats for yards be above that.

Sure, everybody wants to see great stats. But again - how realistic is that with a trashcan offensive line? How can any QB throw deep passes when they are pressured in under 2 seconds? It's just not possible.

Call it making excuses if you want, but no QB is consistently throwing for 275-300 yards behind this OL. Now, maybe the OL improves...but there's certainly no guarantee of that.

Speaking of the OL - I saw some clips of Austin Jackson from the last game that made me think he wasn't actually all that better at guard after all. I'm sure he had some good plays as well, but there were too many instances where he either got beat immediately or got plowed backward. I don't think I've ever seen a young lineman continually get worse from year one to year two the way Jackson has. It's crazy.

JMP wrote:Sure, everybody wants to see great stats. But again - how realistic is that with a trashcan offensive line? How can any QB throw deep passes when they are pressured in under 2 seconds? It's just not possible.

Call it making excuses if you want, but no QB is consistently throwing for 275-300 yards behind this OL. Now, maybe the OL improves...but there's certainly no guarantee of that.

Speaking of the OL - I saw some clips of Austin Jackson from the last game that made me think he wasn't actually all that better at guard after all. I'm sure he had some good plays as well, but there were too many instances where he either got beat immediately or got plowed backward. I don't think I've ever seen a young lineman continually get worse from year one to year two the way Jackson has. It's crazy.

I'm thinking the new O-line coach totally sucks.

CarsonChris wrote:

I'm thinking the new O-line coach totally sucks.

Exactly what I'm thinking. Jackson, Hunt and Kindley may not have been great last season, but they were all pretty good and seemed to have bright futures. This season, they all suck under the new coach.

Welp, Tua got his 300 yards. And still lost. That's it then, there is officially no more hope for anything ever.

Tua is looking like a poor man's Baker Mayfield, who despite the Browns improving by leaps and bounds after drafting him looks so thoroughly average that they're on the verge of giving up on him. Hell, any mediocre QB can out up 300-plus yards and 2-plus TDs in a game these days. Tannehill did it eight times as a Fin.

And oh BTW Mac Jones averaged almost 11 yards per pass today so now even HE might be better than Tua.

Again sadly, Tua *has* to be kept around for at least next season because the only other options are one of the worst QB draft classes ever or trading for Watson. But I fail to see how he'll have better help and support in 2022. The entire O-line needs replacing except for maybe Hunt. A new OC means yet another new system. And Tua has yet to prove he can really do anything well except throw slants. Come to think of it that's pretty much what he did at Alabama, throw endless slants and let his NFL-caliber WRs rack up RAC yardage.

I can't even take consolation from Herbert faceplanting against the Ravens, knowing that the Ravens will curbstomp this team by a lot more than 28.

There's no way this team's scoring more than 20 against any opponent this season. This game was probably the high water mark passing-wise.

I don't "hate" Tua. I don't even think he's a bottom 5 QB. But he's no more than average at best, with very limited physical attributes and intangibles, and we've already seen the maximum extent of what he's capable of. If Tannehill can win a playoff game then Tua could as well, but only if he's surrounded by a hell of a lot better coaching and talent than what he'll have in Miami.