Tua Wins And The Herberts Lose!!!

Maybe this NFL thing is worth caring about just a little after all...

BTW the almighty Herberts are 4-3, same as the Fins, but unlike Tua he's been playing the whole time. I could've sworn he was supposed to be the next Brady

Meanwhile the Fins are 4-0 when Tua starts and finishes the game, hmmm...

Geno Smith out played Herbert Yesterday and it wasn't even close, Seattle is Winning the Wilson Trade by Subtraction.

finskev wrote:Geno Smith out played Herbert Yesterday and it wasn't even close, Seattle is Winning the Wilson Trade by Subtraction.

I know this isn't Fins-related but it popped up in my YT recommendations so I couldn't resist

It's been said all along that Tua wins games. From Day 1 he was a winner. Injuries are a concern but Tua as a starter is a lot better than Herbert. And Herbert, had a lot more surrounding him than Tua did his whole career until now and he is still getting it done.

And Tua wins another one - in absolutely DOMINANT fashion!

JMP wrote:And Tua wins another one - in absolutely DOMINANT fashion!

I've never seen anything like this, at least not with the Fins. Yeah, they went through a bad patch in the '90s when Marino missed time, but they didn't literally always win when he played the entire game either.

I saw it in college, but I chalked it up to "Alabama". But there is something about Tua...he just wins. It isn't always pretty, but when he is in the game somehow, someway the team is usually going to win.

Tua is totally a gamer. When he needs to make a play he makes it

Tua's got something for sure. Now that Tua is free from horrible ToxicTeamKiller Flores he is starting to look like Bama Tua! I just wish he could hit Hill in stride a few times like he has Waddle.

I think there must be something not right with Herbert though.

He just does not look the same since that "rib" injury.

I agree that Herbert definitely seems off. He's become almost exclusively dink and dunk...strange to see.

BTW, Burrow got his ass kicked by the Browns tonight.

I just love to see these "top" QBs falter while Tua dominates!

I've heard it said about QBs before... It not where you get drafted, but which team and Coaching staff drafts you that often determines your NFL fate.

Look at Geno Smith. He went to the stinky-stanky Jets and got branded a stinker too. But now...Pete Carroll has him looking good.

Tua got drafted by the ToxicTeamKiller led Phins and languished in abject offensive coaching staff foolishness and it took finally getting a real Offensive minded HC and some weapons to make him look like the QB he showed at Bama.

I always wonder how many SBs Dan Marino would have won if the Steelers had drafted him like they should have? It was no wonder when they had a chance to draft another Pitt QB, they took it!!

finfanatic wrote:Tua got drafted by the ToxicTeamKiller led Phins and languished in abject offensive coaching staff foolishness and it took finally getting a real Offensive minded HC and some weapons to make him look like the QB he showed at Bama.

Now that he's finally free from that foul fiend Flores, Tua terrifies teams totally! (And yes, I've been waiting for days to work that one in )

I always wonder how many SBs Dan Marino would have won if the Steelers had drafted him like they should have? It was no wonder when they had a chance to draft another Pitt QB, they took it!!

WELL...the Steelers if you recall did reach the '84 AFC title game without Marino...

But as a coach Noll declined far more rapidly than Shula after that season, getting to the playoffs just once in his final seven years In addition, the Steelers' receiving corps during that time was hot garbage burning in a dumpster fire. Not to mention for the rest of the '80s the Browns and Oilers got good and even the Bengals reached a Super Bowl. No, I think what happened in the '83 draft did for a reason, and Shula was the best coach for Marino at the time.

I agree.  And unfortunately for Marino the Killer B's started to age and break down after his rookie season, and attempts to replace them didn't work out too well (Shipp, Hugh Green, Brophy, etc).

Perhaps accelerating that decline, and maybe the most important factor, is that Shula lost Bill Arnsparger after the 1983 season and Chuck Studley proved to be a downgrade.  Tom Olivadotti, so effective with the Hurricanes, never duplicated that success in the NFL after Studley either.

The only teams I can see being a QB away during the latter half of the 80's who Marino might have made a real difference for: Saints and Bears. However would Mora or Ditka have been anywhere near the coach for Marino that Shula was? IMO no.

HalCHorn wrote:I agree.  And unfortunately for Marino the Killer B's started to age and break down after his rookie season, and attempts to replace them didn't work out too well (Shipp, Hugh Green, Brophy, etc).

Perhaps accelerating that decline, and maybe the most important factor, is that Shula lost Bill Arnsparger after the 1983 season and Chuck Studley proved to be a downgrade.  Tom Olivadotti, so effective with the Hurricanes, never duplicated that success in the NFL after Studley either.

When you really look at it, Shula was never the same coach in the '70s and '80s without Arnsparger along. It took him until the '90s to finally get the hang on having a decent D without Arns.

Also, I'm sending you a PM about the decline of the Killer Bs soon, since I just happen to have been researching that lately

Herbert is a bi product of bad coaching. He has the physical tools no doubt he has players around him that are some the top tier guys in the league. He has a defensive unit that can hold their own.

Compare Tua to that and you understand why Tua took a while to get it. Herbert is a different type of QB in a different scheme. Really unfair to compare the 2 even if you hate or love that Tua is the Dolphins QB.

The way i look at it, what would the narrative be if Mike McDaniel was offered the job as the Chargers HC? Would people be bashing Herbert? Would the Chargers be in this situation knowing what kind of coach we see in McDaniel?

Good point, Umix, but I think the issue with Herbert is that he's already reached his ceiling. I don't see much room for growth with him, and that is evident in the fact that he has the exact same negative traits now that he did at Oregon. He's not improving, and I don't think he can - not to any great extent, anyway.

I do think he's better than he's played this season - I think that rib injury has really hampered him - but the fact remains that he struggles in key situations like third down, red zone, 4th quarter, etc. - and that was true in college as well. I think that's just who he is - a very good QB that doesn't have the "winning gene" that the truly great QBs have. Maybe he'll prove me wrong over the long haul, but I just don't see it.

Check out this Tua stat this season:

NFL on CBS
@NFLonCBS

Highest Passer Rating on 3rd down in a single season since 1991*

2022 Tua Tagovailoa 142.7
1994 Steve Young 141.2
1999 Kurt Warner 137.3
2009 Aaron Rodgers 133.5

*when tracking began

JMP wrote:...that he did at Oregon.

they are who we thought they were.

Herbert is who he was at Oregon. And Tua is who he was at Alabama. and as Burrow will tell you, a tiger doesn't change his stripes.

mercury22nathan wrote:

JMP wrote:...that he did at Oregon.

they are who we thought they were.

Herbert is who he was at Oregon.  And Tua is who he was at Alabama.  and as Burrow will tell you, a tiger doesn't change his stripes.

Yep, I think that's it exactly.

Some things can be taught - but the "it factor" is either there or it isn't.