Big decisions in off season

finfanatic wrote:Having a QB who can win when the D and the STs are great does not fill me with confidence.

This one deserves it's own post. Are you seriously saying that you don't expect a QB to win more games when he has a great defense and STs??? No offense, FF, I love you brother - but that's the biggest crock of bullshit I've ever heard. Take a look at all the Super Bowl winning QBs ever, and show me the ones that have won rings with the worst (or one of the worst) defense in the league. And no, I'm not just talking about the Trent Dilfer-led Ravens.

Hell, look no further than the Dolphins: ask Bob Griese how important defense is to winning a Super Bowl - and then ask Dan Marino the same thing. The former won Super Bowls with the NFL's top defense (and top running game, for that matter), and the latter won nothing with garbage defenses (and no running game).

And sticking with the AFC East, the Patriots had a top 15 defense (in points allowed) in 17 of Tom Brady's 19 years as a starter - including 16 years in the top 10. Do you think it's a coincidence that he won so many games in that time? Brady also won a Super Bowl with Tampa with a top 10 defense...and this year he's still fighting for a playoff berth with a top 10 defense...despite having one of the worst offenses in the NFL.

Look, I get it - everyone hates Tua, he's the worst thing that ever happened to football, he kicked your dog and fucked your wife, he's the worst person that ever lived, etc. I get all the blind hatred - I see it over and over and over, everywhere I look. And more power to all of you - hate all you want. The December record speaks for itself, and nothing more needs to be said. But I beg you, please, PLEASE don't make things up to support your hatred. You're all better than this.

Herbert's got his team in the playoffs with 2 games left and he's playing with a D that was historically awful VS the run but has since upgraded to merely horrible. Oh, and his team's more injury-riddled as well. Also, his career passer rating right now is 95.7 to Tua's 95.0. And he's kept playing with injured ribs as opposed to having his head bounced off the turf 3-4 times this season.

BTW relax (as if I'm one to talk LOL). Nobody's saying Tua "sucks". He actually doesn't. But neither did Tannehill. The point is, drafting a first round QB who merely doesn't suck will just give you a bunch of near-misses and 6-8 win seasons. The issue isn't even whether or not Herbert's "elite". I don't think he is, but he's better than Tua by almost any measure which is what it's really all about. Tannehill BTW always seemed to put up great passer ratings for games and seasons in Miami but where did that ever get him, or us?

Has Tua even won an outdoor road game in December yet in his career? Because the NFL's not going to stop scheduling this team to play them. Burrow's already reached a Super Bowl despite getting sacked more times than groceries. Herbert's team is in the playoffs and winning when it matters the most. What has Tua really done besides put up some fancy numbers before getting hurt multiple times and literally always falling apart in December road games (he doesn't do well in prime time either)?

Besides, the NFL is one more Tua head bounce off the turf away from forcing the Fins to make him retire. At this point I won't be surprised if an ultimatum is issued saying if he plays any more this season they'll completely lose their next two drafts.

I was rooting for Tua as much as anybody, you know that. But the truth is the truth and now I feel like a complete chump for ever thinking he'd do some playoff damage.

DolFan 316 wrote:Herbert's got his team in the playoffs with 2 games left a

Herbert's defense got his team in the playoffs with two games left. Herbert has sucked in December.

JMP wrote:

DolFan 316 wrote:Herbert's got his team in the playoffs with 2 games left a

Herbert's defense got his team in the playoffs with two games left.  Herbert has sucked in December.

Tua's been even worse in December. Not the hill you want to die on.

I also wish that we got to play the reeling Titans and garbage Colts like the Chargers did the last two weeks!

DolFan 316 wrote:

Tua's been even worse in December. Not the hill you want to die on.

You sure about that? Tua's been bad in December against 3 top defenses...Herbert's been bad in December against 4 bottom defenses.

JMP wrote:I also wish that we got to play the reeling Titans and garbage Colts like the Chargers did the last two weeks!  

Yeah, it's almost like the NFL would rather have Herbert reach the playoffs than Tua...But that can't be true since everybody knows the NFL would never ever rig games in favor of or against specific teams for any reason and this sudden association with and glorification of sports gambling by them is just a coincidence, right?

(Also, the Titans, Colts and Rams all did seem like they'd at least not suck in August when the schedule came out, to be fair.)

DolFan 316 wrote:
(Also, the Titans, Colts and Rams all did seem like they'd at least not suck in August when the schedule came out, to be fair.)

Yep. I'm not complaining about the schedule - it is what it is, and you never really know how it's going to play out. But I do think the Chargers had a much easier road by playing bottom feeders these last few weeks: 3 of their last 4 games have been against the Raiders, Titans (who suck despite their record) and Colts. And the 4th game was against the Dolphins, with the worst defense in the entire AFC.

The news on Tua's injury certainly puts Sunday's second half into a more understandable perspective. However completely shitting the bed head to head against Herbert and the Chargers, there was no plausible excuse there. Not that Tua was alone in not performing well that day, but he was clearly outplayed by Herbert on a big stage with a lot at stake.

HalCHorn wrote:The news on Tua's injury certainly puts Sunday's second half into a more understandable perspective.  However completely shitting the bed head to head against Herbert and the Chargers, there was no plausible excuse there.  Not that Tua was alone in not performing well that day, but he was clearly outplayed by Herbert on a big stage with a lot at stake.

Absolutely. But again - we were still in that game right up till the end...when the defense allowed a 17-play, 80-yard, game-sealing FG drive that lasted for almost 9 minutes! 17 PLAYS AND ALMOST 9 MINUTES!!! That's absurd! Well, actually it isn't absurd - it's normal for the Dolphins. This defense allows drives like that in the second half of almost every game of late. So yeah, Tua didn't perform - but the defense blew the game, just as they did against the Bills and Packers.

JMP - What I meant was having a a Qb that REQUIRES a great Defense and a Great Special teams to win a game does not fill me with confidence.

I guess i should have said having a Qb that can ONLY win when the D and the STs are great...

With a true franchise QB, the QB can carry the team to a victory when the D and/or STs has a bad day.

That will not happen with a QB who plays as inconsistently as has Tua IMO.

But if what I am reading is right, McD saw some things on tape and suggested Tua go get checked out?
Maybe the concussion was why he played like hot garbage in the second half?

Either way, this is not a good development for the Phins IMO.

finfanatic wrote:JMP - What I meant was having a a Qb that REQUIRES a great Defense and a Great Special teams to win a game does not fill me with confidence.

I guess i should have said having a Qb that can ONLY win when the D and the STs are great...

With a true franchise QB, the QB can carry the team to a victory when the D and/or STs has a bad day.

That will not happen with a QB who plays as inconsistently as has Tua IMO.

What you're looking for does not exist. EVERY great QB wins with a good defense. There is no such thing as a QB that wins with a garbage defense - we should have learned that lesson long ago with Dan Marino. Even in a league that is dominated by offense, defense still matters.

I've already talked about Brady's career. This is old, but aside from 1982, Montana's 49ers had a top 8 scoring defense (and usually top 5) every single season. Mahomes went to the Super Bowl twice..both times with a top 10 scoring defense. Even Matthew Stafford took the Rams to a Super Bowl victory...with a top 15 scoring defense. Josh Allen is considered the first or second best QB in the NFL by many people...and his team has had the #1 or 2 scoring defense in the NFL in 3 of the past 4 years. These things aren't coincidences - they go hand in hand.

If you're just looking at individual games, Tua carried the team while beating the Ravens, Lions and Bears this season in games when the defense and STs were awful. He was dominant in all of those games. So, yes - he can and has done it.