Wilkins holding out/in

Dolphins coach Mike McDaniel said that Wilkins has been sitting out large portions of practice as he seeks a contract extension.

“When he next participates, that will be up to him.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article278272393.html

he's apparently been going through the motions in individual drills and then not participating in team drills so as to avoid the $50K per day fine by just being there. hopefully the Phins wake up and get something done soon.

The Wilkins deal will get done sooner rather than later - both sides want it to happen, so it's just a matter of time. Not concerned at all.

I Just hope this is not another one of those "player holds out for a new contract and gets it, then gets injured for the season" deals.

I do not understand WHY it has taken this long to do something that both sides obviously want done?

I can only assume they were holding it up to see if they could lure Cook into signing? If that is the case, Grier and or anyone who had their head that far up a stinky orifice needs to be beaten badly, drug across gravel, and then fired!!!

Perhaps, if Grier would stop using his draft picks like they were poker chips, he could accumulate enough to... perhaps...maybe...you know... use them... to actually DRAFT a Lineman or two who could improve the D-line rotation?

This team, this front office, and this owner, are often their own worst enemy IMO. Especially the insufferably dipshiite owner Ross... who definitely should be beaten, drug across sharp, pointy gravel, and then fired.

just reminder that Miami opens the season in LA in 2 1/2 weeks and this is still unresolved:

It’s only preseason, but in two games the new-look Dolphins defense has shown glimpses of being the stingy unit that could make a drastic improvement in 2023.

This means that, as Fangio said, the defense’s final test before facing Justin Herbert of the Los Angeles Chargers in the season opener will be another talented quarterback in Lawrence.

Christian Wilkins’ hold-in hasn’t been ideal for the team.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article278454764.html

maybe its time for the Phins' front office to get serious about the negotiations.

mercury22nathan wrote:just reminder that Miami opens the season in LA in 2 1/2 weeks and this is still unresolved:

It’s only preseason, but in two games the new-look Dolphins defense has shown glimpses of being the stingy unit that could make a drastic improvement in 2023.

This means that, as Fangio said, the defense’s final test before facing Justin Herbert of the Los Angeles Chargers in the season opener will be another talented quarterback in Lawrence.

Christian Wilkins’ hold-in hasn’t been ideal for the team.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article278454764.html

maybe its time for the Phins' front office to get serious about the negotiations.

While of course getting Wilkins on the field ASAP is the priority, I think it has been good for other DTs to get more snaps. It sounds like Pili, Twyman and Hand have all made the most of their opportunities and at least one of those guys will have a chance to make the final roster.

But yes, the Wilkins deal MUST get done soon.

Grier is not good enough to play this game.

Retaining talent is just as important as acquiring it. Get it done.

the good news is that defensive line coach Austin Clark is not worried (but what else is he gonna say).

“He’ll be ready to go Week 1,” Clark said. “He’s done a hell of a job in individuals and helping lead the unit with Raekwon [Davis] and Sieler. From an evaluation standpoint in team reps, it has given other guys opportunities. The big thing to them is make the most of these ops. Most of them have done that.”

Has Wilkins done every single thing except 11-on-11 and games and been just as engaged? “One hundred percent,” Clark said. “I’ve been around this guy for four years. He’s a consummate pro, works his ass off, student of the game. He’ll be ready to go, no doubt in my mind.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article278508154.html

now, there is low ground swell argument saying the Phins should not pay Wilkins and would be wise to trade him for as much as they could get right now. i don't quite understand it myself. supposedly... DT has the lowest WAR (wins above replacement) value and teams are far more successful when signing lower tier FA DTs over getting tied to large DT contract. i don't know enough about WAR, etc. i'll leave it to DF316 to educate on the truth (in this particular case).

Interesting point. I would *guess* and this is only a guess - that Chubb, Jaelan Phillips will have far more impact than a very good DT. So, you have to plan for Phillips salary in the not-so-distant future.

Also, what about Ramsey, Holland? Certainly, defensive backs can have a huge impact on the game as well.

You can't pay everyone... I wonder if that's what is holding Grier back...

In 2022, Wilkins led all DTs in snaps, and he also set the single-season NFL record for total tackles by a defensive lineman. He is relentless, with a non-stop motor. He gets into the opponents' heads, and he must be accounted for on every play. He is a team leader, and is almost always the first person on the sideline to get on the field and celebrate with his teammates after a TD. And, he gets better every season.

Wilkins is a building block - a defensive cornerstone.

I'm sure the Dolphins have a $ number they don't want to go over, but in this case they need to bite the bullet and get a contract done. The Dolphins cannot afford to lose the heart and soul of their team, not now when they are close to competing for a ring.

Bottom line: PAY THE MAN.

mercury22nathan wrote:i don't know enough about WAR, etc.  i'll leave it to DF316 to educate on the truth (in this particular case).

Funny you should say that. Among the comments in the article you linked is someone who says DT actually provides a lower WAR than any other position. I myself am starting to think DT is the defensive equivalent of RB, where you can pick up pretty much anybody anywhere and get decent play. It makes perfect sense--if running has never been more irrelevant than it follows that run D would be irrelevant as well.

One example just off the top of my head is Teair Tart. If you don't know who he is, he stated at DT for the Titans' top ranked run D last season as an undrafted player out of that noted football factory Florida International. So0meone named Kevin Givens who was undrafted out of Penn St. started 11 games at DT for the 49ers #2 ranked run D. The Ravens' 3rd ranked run D had two 3rd rounders and a 5th rounder start multiple games at DT.

In addition, I see DT as a not very valuable position in general because opposing offenses can just throw it over their heads. I view NT in particular as pretty much obsolete.

All that having been said, it's still a huge mistake by Grier to throw Wilkins under the bus for Taylor, which he's obviously doing and not even trying to hide it anymore. How many times has this team let their VERY few good draft picks walk so they can chase big name FAs who never seem to work out?

white1 wrote:Interesting point.  I would *guess* and this is only a guess - that Chubb, Jaelan Phillips will have far more impact than a very good DT.  So, you have to plan for Phillips salary in the not-so-distant future.  

Also, what about Ramsey, Holland? Certainly, defensive backs can have a huge impact on the game as well.

You can't pay everyone... I wonder if that's what is holding Grier back...

You know what. His sudden hard-on for a "star" RB after going out of his way NOT to draft or sign one in all the time he's been the GM. Wilkins knows what's going on and why and for once I can't blame a player for holding in. Grier keeps making a very public statement that Wilkins doesn't have the value that some other RB from the outside does--at a time when the rest of the league is going the other way. I'd be pissed too if I was in Wilkins' shoes and might not even handle it as well as he has so far.

DolFan 316 wrote:
One example just off the top of my head is Teair Tart. If you don't know who he is, he stated at DT for the Titans' top ranked run D last season as an undrafted player out of that noted football factory Florida International. So0meone named Kevin Givens who was undrafted out of Penn St. started 11 games at DT for the 49ers #2 ranked run D. The Ravens' 3rd ranked run D had two 3rd rounders and a 5th rounder start multiple games at DT.

Yes, but the Titans and Niners both have top 20 picks on mega-contracts at DT too - Simmons and Armstead.

There's a bunch of great, game-changing DTs that make a ton of money...Aaron Donald, Quinnen Williams, Cameron Heyward, Chris Jones, DeForest Buckner, Vita Vea, etc. It's still a very relevant position, and almost every great D starts with a great DT.

Dexter Lawrence in NY just got a long term extension for big money also. And they already had Leonard Williams, so they doubled down there.

Sign FA and say your in on all the trades but don't take care of your own player first? Get the deal done now and restructure next.

I will say this. Collect the players then work the cap.

Someone shared a list of pending FAs. Some are worth keeping. Not all. Sacrifices can be made when you have / keep franchise talents like Tua, Hill, Waddle, Ramsey, Chubb, Phillips, etc.

I would put Taylor in that group for at least next 3-4 seasons. He’s a top 5 back and will have a huge impact on time of possession, short yardage conversion, red zone offense - all are important

Sorry I excluded this - yes I want Wilkins too. And maybe Seiler

white1 wrote:I will say this. Collect the players then work the cap.

Someone shared a list of pending FAs. Some are worth keeping.  Not all. Sacrifices can be made when you have / keep franchise talents like Tua, Hill, Waddle, Ramsey, Chubb, Phillips, etc.

I would put Taylor in that group for at least next 3-4 seasons. He’s a top 5 back and will have a huge impact on time of possession, short yardage conversion, red zone offense - all are important

white1 wrote:Sorry I excluded this - yes I want Wilkins too. And maybe Seiler

Realistically the Fins would be able to keep all those guys together for this season and next, at best. Even that'll require some serious rejiggering and will likely mean a DOWNGRADE on the O-line. I fail to see how they'll be able to afford Armstead along with everybody else. You can also forget about the TEs being anything other than blockers who occasionally catch a pass, or upgrading at LB. The WR depth won't be getting any better either.

Grier's really backing himself into a corner now IMO. I cannot see ANY circumstance in which he's retained if this team doesn't win a playoff game this season and that's if he DOESN'T land Taylor. And if the Fins let him go I also can't see how he lands another GM spot anywhere. Okay there's *one* reason but that's it and it's got nothing to do with job performance.

Yeah, you're right 316 - we can absolutely add Taylor and keep a bunch of other players - but that also means going cheap at other spots, like OL, TE, LB, etc.

And in 2025, we don't know what the QB situation will be - Tua either gets a monster contract, or we get a new QB via free agency or the draft. Keeping Tua or adding a FA will not be cheap.

BTW - the Eagles are reportedly making an aggressive push for Taylor.

So I think the big knock/risk in paying Wilkins is his lack of pass rush (and this goes along with DF316’s above comments that if all a DT does is tackle in the running game, then maybe the value isn’t there). Aaron Donald is/was in a class by himself and Wilkins is crazy of he thinks he’s gonna get paid Donald money – and that contract has gone a long way in wrecking the Rams at $31.7M per year. So let’s look at the next 5 DT’s per year $ and their 2022 sack and QB hits numbers.

Q Williams $24M – 12 & 28
J Simmons $23.5M – 7.5 & 14
D Payne $22.5M – 11.5 & 20
D Lawrence $22.5M – 7.5 & 28
J Hargrave $21M – 11 & 16

Now compare those with Wilkins’ 3.5 sacks and the fact he’s never had more than 4.5 in any one season and a paltry 7 QB hits in 2022. Granted, he is a tackling machine, but even that is somewhat curious in that he has such a low percentage of tackles for loss (16%) as compared to other high paid DTs (Payne – 28% & William – 22%). So it could be argued that while he makes a lot of tackles, he doesn’t make a lot of high impact/series changing tackles. Now this might be a product of the system he has been playing in – but some of the other DTs play in similar systems too. So maybe the Dolphins want to see just how he performs in Fangio’s system to see if those pash rush numbers and TFLs increase before paying him like the other top guys.

Me, personally, I would value him some where around the $22M dollar range, but reports are that he wants to be paid closer to $24M (and maybe a slight bit more to be the 2nd highest paid DT). In the end, the Phins know he’ll play this year (and well, if he wants his money) and can always franchise tag him – or pay him the $24M per year if his pass rush skyrockets under Fangio. I want the Phins to pay him, but I am not convinced he’s top 3 money right now – perhaps top 5, yes.

Great post, merc.

I do think the lack of sacks from Wilkins has a lot to do with a defensive system that relied heavily (VERY heavily) on blitzing. Most of the time, Wilkins was asked to occupy blockers so the blitzer(s) could get to the QB.

I expect that to change in the Fangio system, where blitzes will be minimized and Wilkins will be asked to collapse the pocket and get to the QB.

Regardless, there's something to be said for being the best run stuffer in the league, as well as being a team leader.

I would place his value at around $20-22 million. I'm sure his agent wants the highest number possible, but the Phins could add in incentives to make the salary go higher.

BTW, interesting to note that Williams, Payne, Hargrave and Lawrence all put up career sack numbers in 2022. None of those guys was a big-time pass rusher before. Point being, just because Wilkins hasn't had a ton of sacks previously, it doesn't mean he can't do it. And if you don't pay him this season and he ends up with 8-10 sacks, his contract demands are going to jump up.

Yeah, I agree the Phins should pay Wilkins, but pay him for what he is, a very good DT, but he is nowhere near the best DT in the league IMO. If Wilkins feels he should be paid more than the other DTs listed above, he is nutty as a Xmas fruitcake full of pecans!! I hope this is just the Agent trying to score some prestige for himself.

Give him 22 mill per and then put some incentives in for more sacks, leading the league in DT tackles, etc...

I sincerely hope Grier and CO are not stupid enough to trade Walk-ins for a freakin' RB!!!

That would tip me over the edge into full-blown outright HATRED for Grier!! Anybody that stupid should be kicked in the nards daily by a hobnailed booted giant!!! Oh, and of course, have absolutely NOTHING to do with the Dolphins!

Just when the Phins FINALLY look like they may be about to turn things around, something totally dipshiite will derail it!!

Shula was too danged loyal to his asst. coaches and stuck with them when it was obvious to most everyone something needed to change and wasted Dan Marino's career! I am beginning to get the feeling that leaving Grier in charge of personnel (drafting as well) will be seen in hindsight as the major factor in why the Phins of this era never got much beyond "good".

finfanatic wrote:Yeah, I agree the Phins should pay Wilkins, but pay him for what he is, a very good DT, but he is nowhere near the best DT in the league IMO. If Wilkins feels he should be paid more than the other DTs listed above, he is nutty as a Xmas fruitcake full of pecans!!  I hope this is just the Agent trying to score some prestige for himself.

Give him 22 mill per and then put some incentives in for more sacks, leading the league in DT tackles, etc...  

I sincerely hope Grier and CO are not stupid enough to trade Walk-ins for a freakin' RB!!!

That would tip me over the edge into full-blown outright HATRED for Grier!! Anybody that stupid should be kicked in the nards daily by a hobnailed booted giant!!!  Oh, and of course, have absolutely NOTHING to do with the Dolphins!

Just when the Phins FINALLY look like they may be about to turn things around, something totally dipshiite will derail it!!  

Shula was too danged loyal to his asst. coaches and stuck with them when it was obvious to most everyone something needed to change and wasted Dan Marino's career! I am beginning to get the feeling that leaving Grier in charge of personnel (drafting as well) will be seen in hindsight as  the major factor in why the Phins of this era never got much beyond "good".

It's so gratifying and cathartic to know I'm not alone

Here's a list of the current highest paid DTs BTW. $24 mil a year would tie Wilkins with Quinnen Williams for 2nd best behind You Know Who. I like Wilkins but he is NOT the league's second best DT. At least make All-Pro ONCE before you get that kind of money, I say! This is why RBs have been collectively thrown under the bus. So many other players who are just good have been paid great player money that there's no room for them. But of course none of the new RB Justice League will ever realize that.

https://overthecap.com/position/interior-defensive-line

Also let me introduce you to Grover Stewart since I've got Colts on the brain lately for some odd reason. He's two years older than Wilkins, can stuff the run about as well, had more sacks than Wilkins last season, and is also in a contract year. You think he'll command or demand $22 mil or more? He just might be Wilkin's replacement if this keeps up.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StewGr00.htm

the more i think about Wilkins, the more likely i think a deal doesn't get done soon. and i don't think there is any incentive for Miami to do a deal that is not team friendly at this point. Wilkins will play this year. he has to play. if he doesn't play or doesn't play well, he loses even more of a chance to eventually get a long term deal. the Phins can allow him to play, try to negotiate a deal after the season and still have the option to franchise tag him if they so choose. Miami holds all the cards and i think Wilkins knows this. i think asking for a contract over his value at this point is pie in the sky thinking and his real negotiating stance will be revealed after the season when the tag is starring at him in the face (assuming he doesn't get a serious injury in the interim).

mercury22nathan wrote:the more i think about Wilkins, the more likely i think a deal doesn't get done soon.  and i don't think there is any incentive for Miami to do a deal that is not team friendly at this point.  Wilkins will play this year.  he has to play.  if he doesn't play or doesn't play well, he loses even more of a chance to eventually get a long term deal.  the Phins can allow him to play, try to negotiate a deal after the season and still have the option to franchise tag him if they so choose.  Miami holds all the cards and i think Wilkins knows this.  i think asking for a contract over his value at this point is pie in the sky thinking and his real negotiating stance will be revealed after the season when the tag is starring at him in the face (assuming he doesn't get a serious injury in the interim).

100% agree. There's really no reason for the Phins to do anything at this point, unless Wilkins will agree to a team-friendly deal. The team is in control here.

It's actually in Wilkins's best interest to get on the field and play - because if he proves he can rush the passer this season, his value will skyrocket.

Having Fangio run the defense goes in Wilkins favor as well.

It's hard to get a mega deal when you're a good player on a bad defense - and that describes Wilkins last year.

Now, if he's a big piece of a top 10 defense in 2023, he has more negotiating power next offseason.

I'm really not worried at all. If Phillips keeps trending the way he has been, he may be a higher priority to lock up long term for me. Elite pass rushers matter. A lot.

if true...

CHRISTIAN WILKINS IS BACK!!!!!

He’s practicing with the Miami Dolphins today!!!!

https://twitter.com/ian693/status/1696594738281865357?s=20

The Miami #Dolphins are practicing as we speak and it has been reported that DT Christian Wilkins is in uniform AND participating.

Pretty significant if you ask me.

https://twitter.com/BrandonRLiguori/status/1696594117487202540?s=20

...good news.