Re: TUA THE SAVIOR!!!

by Umix10 Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:35 pm

Hilarious

by finfanatic Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:12 am

HA ha...

Tua ain't up to the Bama QB I was hoping he would be, but Bama probably had and has a better Oline than the current Phins so...
Still, it is nice to see a QB make the right decisions quickly and throw the ball on target!!

I have been astounded by how well the Offense is working when most of the players cannot run block to save their souls!

Anybody noticed how the Tua to Drew Brees comparisons are tending upward lately? I assume this is a height thing, but the accuracy is also factoring in I think?

Go Phins!

by **JMP** Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:52 am

finfanatic wrote:

I have been astounded by how well the Offense is working when most of the players cannot run block to save their souls!

On that note, one of the most astounding things is how good of a blocker Preston Williams has become. He is almost useless as a receiver right now, but I've seen him throwing some key blocks and I think I read that he is, however they measure it, a top 10 blocker this year. That's an element we've been missing for a long time. Also great to see players contributing in a variety of ways.

finfanatic wrote:Anybody noticed how the Tua to Drew Brees comparisons are tending upward lately? I assume this is a height thing, but the accuracy is also factoring in I think?

I have often compared Tua to Brees, and for me it is mostly about accuracy and ball placement. Sure, they have the height in common, but IMO what made Brees so amazing was his uncanny ability to deliver the ball exactly where and when it needed to go - and that is Tua's best trait. Honestly, when all is said and done I think Tua will eventually pass Brees in that regard - because he's already displaying incredible accuracy while he's still learning, and he's doing it with a crappy OL and no running game. I'm not saying Tua will be a Hall of Famer, but I think Tua is just scratching the surface of what he's capable of, and I expect a big jump next season if and when the Dolphins fix some of the offensive issues.

by white1 Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:57 am

I have often compared Tua to Brees, and for me it is mostly about accuracy and ball placement. Sure, they have the height in common, but IMO what made Brees so amazing was his uncanny ability to deliver the ball exactly where and when it needed to go - and that is Tua's best trait. Honestly, when all is said and done I think Tua will eventually pass Brees in that regard - because he's already displaying incredible accuracy while he's still learning, and he's doing it with a crappy OL and no running game. I'm not saying Tua will be a Hall of Famer, but I think Tua is just scratching the surface of what he's capable of, and I expect a big jump next season if and when the Dolphins fix some of the offensive issues.

Great point and IIRC Brees was a slow starter. Even after 3 (or 4) seasons the Chargers drafted Rivers because they weren't sure about Brees. He kind of caught fire after that.

So Tua being this accurate and with the quick release this early in his career is very encouraging...

by CarsonChris Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:26 pm

I always wanted a Marino type QB as a replacement. Tua will never be that but he can be close to Brees. Definitely need more playmakers for Tua. The game plans still aren't adequate. Gesicki disappears.

by DolFan 316 Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:28 pm

AAALLL ABOARD THE TUA TRAIN!!! CHOO!!! CHOO!!! IT'S LEAVING THE STATION AND WE'RE RIDING IT ALL THE WAY TO THE PLAYOFFS, BABY!!! cheers

by JEGnj Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:58 pm

I have not liked a Miami QB since Marino. I like the kid and hope he sticks.

by **JMP** Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:01 pm

The way Tua moves in the pocket and manipulates defenders are things you just don't expect from a QB that has started less than 20 games. He is heading for stardom, no doubt in my mind. Fix this OL, and the sky is the limit.

by DolFan 316 Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:09 pm

JEGnj wrote:I have not liked a Miami QB since Marino. I like the kid and hope he sticks.

JMP wrote:The way Tua moves in the pocket and manipulates defenders are things you just don't expect from a QB that has started less than 20 games. He is heading for stardom, no doubt in my mind. Fix this OL, and the sky is the limit.

Just 2 months ago I was convinced Tua didn't have it. But now he's won me over TUA THE SAVIOR!!! - Page 3 1f60d

I can now see that almost all his issues other than the injury thing were really caused by a complete lack of support from everyone around him. And STILL he's rising above!!! cheers

by **JMP** Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:44 pm

Chris Kouffman
@ckparrot
Let me point a finer point on this surprisingly effective 4th quarter offense for Miami.

In the 15 games where Tua Tagovailoa played through the 4th quarter, going back to his rookie year, the team scored 138 points in those 4th quarters.

That paces for 37 points per game.

1:49 PM · Dec 6, 2021

by **JMP** Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:52 pm

https://twitter.com/NFLonCBS/status/1467904084451680262?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1467904084451680262%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

by **JMP** Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:03 pm

This might be my favorite Tua play ever (so far). Just watch what he does before throwing the ball, starting with the amazing fake, and then completely hosing about 4 defenders with his eyes and body, and then the lightning-fast release as he throws the ball...it's so fast the camera can barely capture it! You just don't see many QBs with that type of ability. People want to know what's elite about Tua...well, it's things like this.

https://twitter.com/ckparrot/status/1467944890516615180

by finfanatic Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:15 pm

If Tua just had ONE Tackle that could hold his block for more than 2 seconds....!!!

I know I never liked the Wreck Flowers signing at Guard because of the price, but if having Wreck Flowers overpaid at LG could make anyone think Jackson might become a legitimate LT, then FLOWERS was WAY UNDERPAID!!

I was kinda thinking DRAFT a tackle but now I am thinking the Phins may just have to pony up some moolah and get a seasoned VET to bring in and take a leadership role with these young O-linemen. And they may STILL draft a tackle.

Of course, letting GRIER sign free agents has not worked out that well.

Still, if the rookies keep setting records, no way Ross fires him.

by Umix10 Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:11 am

2019
Round 1 — DT Christian Wilkins.
Round 3 — G Michael Deiter.
Round 5 — LB Andrew Van Ginkel.
Round 6 — T Isaiah Prince.
Round 7 — FB Chandler Cox.
Round 7 — RB Myles Gaskin
2020
Round 1, Pick No. 5: Tua Tagavailoa
Round 1, Pick No. 18: Austin Jackson
Round 1, Pick No. 30: Noah Igbinoghene
Round 2, Pick No. 39: Robert Hunt
Round 2, Pick No. 56: Raekwon Davis
Round 3, Pick No. 70: Brandon Jones
Round 4, Pick No. 111: Solomon Kindley*
Round 5, Pick No. 154: Jason Strowbridge
Round 5, Pick No. 164: Curtis Weaver
Round 6, Pick No. 185: Blake Ferguson
Round 7, Pick No. 246: Malcolm Perry
2021
Round 1: No. 6 WR Jaylen Waddle
Round 1: No. 18, DE Jaelan Phillips.
Round 2: No. 36, S Jevon Holland
Round 2:No. 42, OT Liam Eichenberg.
Round 3: No. 81, TE Hunter Long.
Round 7: No. 231, OT Larnel Coleman
Round 7: No. 244 RB Gerrid Doaks

Grier/Flores draft picks. 14 of the 24 shown here have been significant contributors in the last couple of seasons. I didn't think anything of it but the guy has put some players out there. They aren't all superstars but they aren't all camp fodder either. While I don't think his Free agent signings are worth shit. I've started to come around on some of the picks. If Jackson can progress next season as a G and Eichenberg improve Grier will be looking like a candidate for GM of the year.

by CarsonChris Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:06 am

Teams all have players. Miami has players. Miami needs elite players. I'm not sure we have elite players. If Jaelan Phillips continues the sack streak he could be considered elite. I don't think Tua will ever be considered elite. Waddle, has been great but I haven't seen dynamic after the catch runs where he's gone from one end of the field to the other. The line, nobody elite. The running backs, nobody elite. Game changers, play makers. We are short of. Tua is a game manager right now. A product of few playmakers being on the team.

by **JMP** Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:00 am

CarsonChris wrote:Teams all have players. Miami has players. Miami needs elite players. I'm not sure we have elite players. If Jaelan Phillips continues the sack streak he could be considered elite. I don't think Tua will ever be considered elite. Waddle, has been great but I haven't seen dynamic after the catch runs where he's gone from one end of the field to the other. The line, nobody elite. The running backs, nobody elite. Game changers, play makers. We are short of. Tua is a game manager right now. A product of few playmakers being on the team.

Tua, Waddle, Phillips and Holland are going to be elite-level playmakers for a long time. Brandon Jones, AVG and Christian Wilkins aren't elite and never will be, but they are also playmakers. Keep in mind, all of these guys are young and are only going to get better with experience and overall team improvements.

The bolded players on Umix's list definitely provide food for thought. We tend to highlight Grier's colossal misses, but the truth is he has drafted some very good players. The jury is certainly out with the OL picks, but as I've said I suspect Jackson, Hunt and Eich will all look a lot better with legit coaching. Time will tell - this story isn't finished yet.

by DolFan 316 Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:21 am

Meh. Nobody thought Grier was secretly a draft savant when this team was 1-7 with mostly the players he drafted.

And if I've said it once I've said it a hundred times, just because a team drafts a player who starts doesn't really mean anything, except that he's only starting because there's nobody else. In no universe can Austin Jackson be considered a draft "hit" just because he's a starter. Kindley's even worse, he's not even a starter anymore. If he can't start on THIS O-line, what does that say about him? Certainly nothing good.

And to bring this full circle, I'm not even sure how much credit Grier should get for Tua, considering he and Flores were apparently plotting to get rid of him right up until they finally figured out they needed Tua to win so they could keep their jobs!

by **JMP** Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:04 am

DolFan 316 wrote:Meh. Nobody thought Grier was secretly a draft savant when this team was 1-7 with mostly the players he drafted.

And if I've said it once I've said it a hundred times, just because a team drafts a player who starts doesn't really mean anything, except that he's only starting because there's nobody else. In no universe can Austin Jackson be considered a draft "hit" just because he's a starter. Kindley's even worse, he's not even a starter anymore. If he can't start on THIS O-line, what does that say about him? Certainly nothing good.

And to bring this full circle, I'm not even sure how much credit Grier should get for Tua, considering he and Flores were apparently plotting to get rid of him right up until they finally figured out they needed Tua to win so they could keep their jobs!

I'm not saying the bolded players are good because they're starters - they're all legitimately good players, again aside from the OL who I'd consider bad so far but with potential to improve. Right or wrong, Grier's legacy in Miami will be determined by Tua. If Tua takes this team to a Super Bowl at some point, Grier will be looked at as the "architect" of the championship team.

Here's my year by year take of the players that have stayed on the main roster:

2019
Round 1 — DT Christian Wilkins. - one of the best run defenders in the NFL and a great locker room guy
Round 3 — G Michael Deiter. - if he stays healthy, could be the answer at Center
Round 5 — LB Andrew Van Ginkel. - very good all-around defensive player, huge part of the D
Round 7 — RB Myles Gaskin - 13 total TDs in 3 1/2 seasons for a 7th round pick? That's excellent value.

2020
Round 1, Pick No. 5: Tua Tagavailoa - you all know how I feel about Tua!
Round 1, Pick No. 18: Austin Jackson - after a promising rookie season, looks like total trash in year 2.
Round 1, Pick No. 30: Noah Igbinoghene - bust
Round 2, Pick No. 39: Robert Hunt - after a promising rookie season, looks much worse in year 2.
Round 2, Pick No. 56: Raekwon Davis - very good run defender and a key piece on the DL
Round 3, Pick No. 70: Brandon Jones - playmaking DB
Round 4, Pick No. 111: Solomon Kindley - after a promising rookie season, can't even get on the field in year 2.
Round 6, Pick No. 185: Blake Ferguson - one of the top long snappers in football. Excellent value pick.

2021
Round 1: No. 6 WR Jaylen Waddle - on pace to smash the rookie record for receptions - excellent receiver and playmaker
Round 1: No. 18, DE Jaelan Phillips. - absolute beast who now holds the Dolphins rookie sack record and looks to be a superstar in the making
Round 2: No. 36, S Jevon Holland - elite-level skills and absolute playmaker
Round 2:No. 42, OT Liam Eichenberg. - so far, no good
Round 3: No. 81, TE Hunter Long. - barely plays, but who knows???

Overall, I'd say that's pretty damn good - but when you factor in the misses, it sort of evens out. Still, with Tua and the 'big 3' in 2021 Grier gets a definite passing grade from me, maybe even in the B range...and the future could bring that grade way up.

by DolFan 316 Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:19 am

Okay okay, I know when I'm fighting a losing battle. But I'm firing one last shot: if Grier really did draft Long to replace Gesicki next season, he should be fired for that alone! (Storms out in a huff.)

Okay, j/k about that last part. But all this sudden Grier love is irking me a bit Mad

by HalCHorn Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:37 am

At this moment, Jackson appears to be a whiff....but Billy Turner and Wade Smith were whiffs too until they got better coaching (elsewhere, unfortunately). I wouldn't put Jackson in the Jonathan Martin category just yet, but if we get a competent O-line coach and he still can't start somewhere on this line effectively---yeah, he'd be a bust then.

by Umix10 Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:03 pm

I like the passion. but im skeptical of the substance. We've talked about Elite level players and game managers to draft busts. And I love it.

The point I was trying to make is that we are seeing some of the results of the vision that Flores/Grier had when they first started. In the NFL, we all get enamored by the other teams and wish our team was like the Packers or the Chiefs. Or had a QB like Lamar Jackson or Kyler Murray. The truth is we want our team to be like theirs, in other words, we want them to play an exciting brand of football.

Contrary to that fact is Miami Dolphins Football. None of the elite players except X really. But not exciting offense. Dink and Dunk. Funny how Mac jones is doing the same thing but they are in the drivers seat of the AFC East and everyone is starting to think that he can be elite.

I had to research the picks before I posted. But we have to remember that Grier had to dump a lot of salaries to get to this point. We were in cap hell until he had a fire sale. And now we are in position to have "THE" most money in cap space next season in addition to the increase in the salary cap. I'm still weary of Grier but I'm also gonna give him the benefit of the doubt till the off season when he gets all that money.

by HalCHorn Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:40 pm

A month ago, the 2021 draft looked really bad. Now, Waddle looks like he could develop into a Tyreek Hill type, Phillips is starting to click, and Holland (who looked good from the beginning) actually looks like he may make everyone forget all about Fitzpatrick if he hasn't already. Things could change, but I feel better about it than I did on November 1st.

We definitely need more playmakers from Grier, and it is now looking like he may have given us a few. Time will tell. I'm not saying "Grier gotta go" now, at least.

by **JMP** Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:50 pm

HalCHorn wrote:A month ago, the 2021 draft looked really bad. Now, Waddle looks like he could develop into a Tyreek Hill type, Phillips is starting to click, and Holland (who looked good from the beginning) actually looks like he may make everyone forget all about Fitzpatrick if he hasn't already. Things could change, but I feel better about it than I did on November 1st.

We definitely need more playmakers from Grier, and it is now looking like he may have given us a few. Time will tell. I'm not saying "Grier gotta go" now, at least.

Yep. It's important to keep in mind that players continue to evolve (or devolve). Early this season, Grier's 2020 class looked dismal...but now, it looks like Tua could very well be our franchise QB. And as you said, Hal, halfway through the season we're now looking at the '21 class as amazing after thinking it was another throwaway. Things change. But yes, right now I'm keeping Grier.

by **JMP** Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:56 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:Okay okay, I know when I'm fighting a losing battle. But I'm firing one last shot: if Grier really did draft Long to replace Gesicki next season, he should be fired for that alone! (Storms out in a huff.)

Okay, j/k about that last part. But all this sudden Grier love is irking me a bit

I still think Long was drafted to complement Gesicki, not replace him. But who knows at this point??? Right now, Long can't even crack the top 3 in the TE group.

I wouldn't call it "Grier love" - but I do think his overall body of work since '19 has yielded a lot of good - and a few great - players. Certainly, things look better for him now than they did after the 1-7 start. Things change fast around here!

by finfanatic Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:04 pm

I agree... He will definitely get another shot here. Ross is a supreme goober.

The whole Watson thing has cast a both Grier and Flores into a bad light for me. The fact that Ross seemed to be on board with the idea just confirms what a rotten supreme goober Ross is.

Maybe the team could win with Grier running personnel, but when you factor in that he thought it would be a good idea to bring in Watson, that means he "got to go!"

On Gesicki: Keeping all those TEs is to prepare for when the Phins let Gesicki go. Prepare yourselves.

I bet Grier was willing to throw Gesicki in on the Watson deal!!!

Shocked

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