QB battle over before it began

Been seeing a lot of reports that Rosen is not living up to what Miami wants him to be and is still in practicing with the second team. Does this mean that Rosen is a waste or are we going to expect more from him in Pre-season

according to Jackson of the Herald, Rosen outplayed Fitz on Saturday.

...Fitzpatrick has opened with the first team in 11 on 11 team drills all four days of training camp -- even after Rosen outplayed him on Saturday...

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article233243211.html

its still early and all of these "evaluations" and reports are the subjective thoughts of reporters and don't amount to a hill of beans.

Yeah, right now, if they are reporting their opinions, it is usually thick, fetid, crapola on a stick IMHO.

I go by what I see, and even then, HC's are human and have likes and dislikes.

Witness Queasy Joe Philbin defending Dallas Thomas's pathetic play and treating Reggie Bush like a leper!

Uugghh! That made me nauseous just thinking about it.

Apparently it ain’t too early to fire th OL Coach! This might be the most refreshing thing about this season. I’m happy that Flores is sticking to what he knows. Discipline throughout no matter who it is!

I just posted that. I can't imagine that an OL coach get fired that fast but then again if you want to be a champion then do what has to be done

Fitz has 14 years exp plus about a month and a half head start with the team.

I’m not focusing so much on Rosen right now he’s got time.

Umix10 wrote:Apparently it ain’t too early to fire th OL Coach!  This might be the most refreshing thing about this season.  I’m happy that Flores is sticking to what he knows.  Discipline throughout no matter who it is!

Hell yeah! Flores is EXACTLY what this team needs. Take control and make the hard decisions, and hold EVERYONE accountable.

white1 wrote:Fitz has 14 years exp plus about a month and a half head start with the team.

I’m not focusing so much on Rosen right now he’s got time.

This. It really doesn't matter right now.

Pretty obvious that unless Rosen looked like Dan Marino circa 1984 from day one, this was going to be Fitz's job to lose. Rosen will get his shot at some point, and it really doesn't matter when. And we'll know more in preseason anyway...practices now are all about learning and implementing.

I can't wait for the first pre-season game. I really want to see what we fans are looking forward to this season

Flores on the QBs:

“It’s clear to me Ryan Fitzpatrick is leading the way.” In meetings, walk-throughs. “This is an ongoing competition but right now, I would say he’s leading the way.” Says Fitzpatrick has been more productive. “At the end of the day, that’s what it comes down to. He has a lot of leadership ability.” But points out “it’s still a competition.”

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/20190730/miami-dolphins-what-brian-flores-said-in-wake-of-ol-coaching-change?rssfeed=true

Makes sense. My prediction stands.

Fitz wins the job in camp, but then loses it in late September / October after one of his multi-interception games. Rosen starts after that, and we get at least 8 games to see what he can do. I'm expecting him to get more and more comfortable in the offense throughout camp, and into the season before he ultimately starts in live games.

white1 wrote:Makes sense.  My prediction stands.  

Fitz wins the job in camp, but then loses it in late September / October after one of his multi-interception games.  Rosen starts after that, and we get at least 8 games to see what he can do.  I'm expecting him to get more and more comfortable in the offense throughout camp, and into the season before he ultimately starts in live games.

Yep, exactly what I'm thinking. Fitz starts the season, and at some point Rosen takes over. Rosen will definitely get more cmfortable as he spends more time in the offense - the question is, will that comfort level translate to putting points on the scoreboard? Time will tell...

Heh.

Yeah, makes sense, unless Fitz goes the whole season playing good. He did that ONE SEASON with the Jets and held out wanting $12 or 14 mill per IIRC?

Lets hope they get to see enough of Rosen to decide to either keep him as the starter or jettison him and go another direction.

If they are planning on going into next season and play him to DECIDE, then this season will have been a failure IMO.

If Fitz does well I see Rosen gone and Miami going after a QB in the draft anyway. For the fact that Rosen isn't doing to well at camp is the same reason I wasn't really into Miami getting him even though it was a cheaper route, there wasn't really no upsides. Rosen might have a better OL but if his decision making sucks then it will always suck

Tank for Trevor

Rosen has seemingly had his hands full learning the offense and getting such minute details as figuring out the Mike linebacker point before, you know, becoming a team leader.

“This offense gives a lot of control to the quarterback, and there are a lot of things I’m doing that I’ve never done before,” Rosen said.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article233321727.html

Rosen has never had to read a defense in his entire career - including his rookie season with the Cardinals. the Cards we such a shit show last season...well, they fired the coach and had the first pick...and they did a disservice to Rosen in his development as a rookie. he is learning to play the position on an NFL level for the very first time. so in other words, this is going to take time - and the truth is, some guys never learn it (ala Tannehill). its not likely he is going to be proficient in controlling the game from the line of scrimmage by practice and pre-season alone - it takes real live game experience. if Fitz plays well and remains uninjured (maybe big "ifs"), i don't think Rosen starts a game at all this year. i don't think Flores is just going to throw away games just to see if Rosen is or isn't the future. Rosen is going to have to outperform Fitz in training camp - and i don't think that is likely given the huge learning curve. and remember, once the season starts, the Phins will be giving most, if not all of the reps to the starter (Fitz) in practice - so Rosen want have much chance to gain ground (barring a Fitz meltdown or injury).

but that is ok. the Phins have Rosen on his rookie deal (most of which the Cards are on the hook for) and it doesn't preclude them from drafting another QB and letting them compete.

and so Fitz leaves the door open...

A day after being named the leader in the Dolphins quarterback competition by coach Brian Flores, Fitzpatrick regressed in Wednesday’s practice. It arguably may have been his worst training camp session, following Saturday’s bad performance where three turnovers plagued that outing.

On Wednesday, Fitzpatrick saw constant pressure by the Dolphins defense and he threw interceptions to cornerback Xavien Howard and linebacker/safety T.J. McDonald.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-sp-dolphins-camp-stock-up-down-wednesday-20190731-tlkix5fjgjc2retuzaphsqkauu-story.html

and how did Rosen seize this opportunity...

New Dolphins cornerback Eric Rowe received praise from Flores before practice, and capitalized with an interception of Rosen on a pass where receiver Brice Butler got past him downfield.

...by under-throwing a wide open receiver.

This offense requires a TON of pre-snap work from the QB - identifying the MLB, identifying the blitzers, making line calls, etc. - things Rosen never had to do in college or with the Cards. It's going to take time. The raw skill is there...now it's all about learning and applying what he learns.

Agree. Fitz having an ugly practice only reaffirms what we are expecting. I think he'll have a bad game, and Rosen will keep learning and get his chance.

Yeah, we already know who Fitz is. Hopefully Rosen can figure it out. We'll find out relatively fast.

JMP wrote:This offense requires a TON of pre-snap work from the QB - identifying the MLB, identifying the blitzers, making line calls, etc. - things Rosen never had to do in college or with the Cards.  It's going to take time.  The raw skill is there...now it's all about learning and applying what he learns.

I feel like this is the same thing that people were saying about Tannehill. you know " give him time" or " he wasn't a full four year starter in college". Right now to me it has to be you either have it or you don't. there are too many excuses that people are trying to hand out to QB because they were okay in College. I never thought Rosen would be a great QB but more of a 2nd string guy. Rosen get another contract for next year as a backup QB and Miami finds a rookie QB that can recognize the D without having to "give him time".

rightchea wrote:

JMP wrote:This offense requires a TON of pre-snap work from the QB - identifying the MLB, identifying the blitzers, making line calls, etc. - things Rosen never had to do in college or with the Cards.  It's going to take time.  The raw skill is there...now it's all about learning and applying what he learns.

I feel like this is the same thing that people were saying about Tannehill. you know " give him time" or " he wasn't a full four year starter in college". Right now to me it has to be you either have it or you don't. there are too many excuses that people are trying to hand out to QB because they were okay in College. I never thought Rosen would be a great QB but more of a 2nd string guy. Rosen get another contract for next year as a backup QB and Miami finds a rookie QB that can recognize the D without having to "give him time".

This is exactly right. A guy has it, gets it, or doesn't. Yes, he needs to pick up the offense, but if he was never allowed to do any reads, ever, then he's not very good. Knowing who the fuckin' Mike is, Christ, that's rudimentary.

I really don't care if Fitz starts the first few games while Rosen gets a restart and watches.

rightchea wrote:

JMP wrote:This offense requires a TON of pre-snap work from the QB - identifying the MLB, identifying the blitzers, making line calls, etc. - things Rosen never had to do in college or with the Cards.  It's going to take time.  The raw skill is there...now it's all about learning and applying what he learns.

I feel like this is the same thing that people were saying about Tannehill. you know " give him time" or " he wasn't a full four year starter in college". Right now to me it has to be you either have it or you don't. there are too many excuses that people are trying to hand out to QB because they were okay in College. I never thought Rosen would be a great QB but more of a 2nd string guy. Rosen get another contract for next year as a backup QB and Miami finds a rookie QB that can recognize the D without having to "give him time".

There are different types of offenses. Rosen has never played in the current Dolphin offense. It's as simple as that.

The other offenses he's played in did not give much pre-snap responsibility to the QB. This offense, in contrast, gives a TON or pre-snap responsibility to the QB. Rosen needs to learn this new scheme.

Saying "you either have it or you don't" is far too simplistic. There are way too many factors involved here. We all want immediate results, but unfortunately life doesn't usually work that way. Dismissing Rosen because he's not a Hall of Famer after a few practices is much too short-sighted.

Bottom line: Rosen has been getting better, and played very well in last week's scrimmage. He's exactly where he should be right now, and he's progressing nicely.

Degarmo wrote:he needs to pick up the offense, but if he was never allowed to do any reads, ever, then he's not very good.  Knowing who the fuckin' Mike is, Christ, that's rudimentary.

Nope, all it means is he's never played in an offense that asked him to do these things. Different offenses give different pre-snap responsibilities to the QB. In many college offenses, the QB doesn't have to do anything on his own pre-snap - all the reads come from the coaches and OL calls. This Dolphin offense is light years beyond that.

Rosen seems like a very intelligent person - he'll get it. Just needs reps.