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Great article comparing Phins and Skins: "A Tale of Two Tanks"

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Degarmo
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Great article comparing Phins and Skins: "A Tale of Two Tanks" Empty Great article comparing Phins and Skins: "A Tale of Two Tanks"

Post by JMP Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:46 am

From a Redskins website...

https://riggosrag.com/2019/10/03/redskins-dolphins-tale-two-tanks/


They were 0-4 in the twilight of September. They hadn’t competed; in fact, against a marginal competitor in Week 4, they’d lost by a margin of over 20 points. But this was all according to the plan. This team wasn’t supposed to win this year, anyway.

They had offloaded players for a treasure trove of assets before and during the first quarter of the regular season. They had long-term candidates for their rebuild all across the roster, and they used these games, not to place unnecessary playoff pressure on their players’ shoulders, but to set a foundation of development. All the while, locking up the greatest asset of all: The first overall pick.

It’s losing with a purpose. It’s all part of the plan.

Two NFL teams are tanking. But this anecdote applies to only one. The Washington Redskins 2019 season has taken many by surprise, but none more than the Redskins themselves. It’s a cautionary tale, about accepting reality, and having a cohesive plan. A tale of two very different tanks.

...

...the Dolphins have put themselves in a position where this historic ineptitude will benefit them in the long run, if they play their cards right. After trading Laremy Tunsil, Kenny Stills, and Minkah Fitzpatrick, they have three first-round picks in the 2019 NFL Draft. They have seven total picks on Days 1 and 2 in 2020, and they have fourteen total picks. They’re projected to have over $117 million in cap space next offseason.

It’s ugly right now. But it’s all part of the plan.

...

From 2016 to 2018, the Miami Dolphins went 23-25. The Washington Redskins went 22-25-1.

In the offseason of 2019, the Redskins made Landon Collins the highest-paid safety in the NFL. The move highlighted an otherwise quiet free agency, but they also signed former Giants offensive lineman Ereck Flowers and cornerback Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. These moves negated third-round, sixth-round, and seventh-round compensatory picks that they would have been projected to receive from the departures of Preston Smith, Ty Nsekhe, and Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, respectively.

In the 2019 NFL Draft, the Redskins received high marks from draft media, amassing talent on Days 1, 2, and 3. Their class was punctuated by the acquisition of former Ohio State quarterback Dwayne Haskins, and former Mississippi State edge rusher Montez Sweat. Other picks, such as Terry McLaurin and Cole Holcomb, also showed promise.

Washington traded up for Sweat, sacrificing a second-round pick in 2020. It was a move, and an offseason, resemblant of a team going all-in on immediate success. But the acquisition of Haskins, a rookie quarterback, suggested a potential conflict of interest in D.C. Why did a team that was starting over at the game’s most important position, think they could make the leap in 2019?

...

The Redskins have one first-round pick in 2020. They don’t have a second-round pick. Their one asset that’s commanding value, Trent Williams, they refuse to trade. And they’re projected to be nineteenth in the NFL in cap space by the turn of the new league year.

It’s ugly right now. And no one saw it coming.

...

One team prepared for the tank. The other refused to see it coming. And now, the stark contrast between the two is only growing.

Both the Dolphins and Redskins are 0-4, with no end in sight to their incompetence. But for the Dolphins, this failure was an expected part of their master plan, and it’s allowed them to reload for a monumental 2020 NFL Draft. The Redskins depleted their own future assets to go in on competing in 2019. For them, this failure is a nightmare in broad daylight.

The root of the problem? The Redskins front office was complacent. They failed to introspect and self-scout. They were lazy. And now, they’re paying the consequences for their short-sighted view of mediocrity. Mathematically, yes, one could say they were close. But structurally, functionally, they were closer to a total collapse.

Things will get better for the Dolphins. They turned the page, and took the first step in the next direction in unison. Before anything changes in Washington, the Redskins need to embrace the ugly, exchange costly, aging veterans and un-aligning players for draft picks, and re-assess the very foundation of the franchise. Otherwise, they won’t see the next tank coming, either.

Very, very interesting article. There are definitely parallels between these two franchises. The difference now is that the Dolphins have changed course and are trying something different...while the Skins are continuing to spin their wheels, going nowhere fast.

I also find it hilarious that at one point, the Dolphins were getting DESTROYED for "tanking"...and now, 4 weeks into the season, bad teams are pointing to the Dolphins as a model franchise for how to properly rebuild! Laughing Laughing Laughing

Of course, we don't know if the Phins' path will lead to success. But we sure as hell know that the Skins' path won't - because we've tried it for years.

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Post by Degarmo Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:20 pm

I'm sure Goodell and the NFL are furious about this, but it's their failure. If the system were different, teams wouldn't HAVE to do this. As it stands now, it's the highest return on your gamble.

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Post by JMP Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:40 pm

Degarmo wrote:I'm sure Goodell and the NFL are furious about this, but it's their failure.  If the system were different, teams wouldn't HAVE to do this.  As it stands now, it's the highest return on your gamble.

You know, I'm not really sure the Dolphins' "Tank" is a fail for the NFL. This article I posted makes me think that it may in fact be a good thing. Consider: what is better for the league - having a winless team with a bright future or a winless team with no future?

Really, when it comes down to it, a bad team is a bad team. Are the Dolphins doing something wrong because they are 0-4 with a garbage roster, but the Bengals are doing something right at 0-4 with a halfway decent roster? I say no. The difference is, the Dolphins have the assets to get better immediately, and the Bengals and especially Redskins don't. So why is the Dolphins' way somehow a bad thing?

I get that it sucks to watch the product the Dolphins put on the field this year, and people don't want to pay to see it. But is watching a winless Redskins team any better simply because they have 'popular' veteran players like Vernon Davis, Adrian Peterson and Josh Norman? Would the 0-4 Dolphins somehow be more exciting with Laremy Tunsil and Minkah Fitzpatrick? Crap is crap, the way I see it. At least we have a plan to turn our crap into gold.

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Post by Degarmo Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:05 pm

No, no, it's not the winless that's the issue, it's that the NFL feels that teams are abusing their own draft system by "tanking". Well, the NFL set up these rules, so it's not the teams' failures, it's the system's failure. If they want teams not to use the most-efficient way of rebuilding, then they can't leave that path wide open.

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Post by JMP Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:44 pm

Degarmo wrote:No, no, it's not the winless that's the issue, it's that the NFL feels that teams are abusing their own draft system by "tanking".  Well, the NFL set up these rules, so it's not the teams' failures, it's the system's failure.  If they want teams not to use the most-efficient way of rebuilding, then they can't leave that path wide open.

I get what you're saying, but is there really a difference between a bad team that's tanking and a bad team that's just bad? Let's say the Bengals end up with the #1 overall pick...is that somehow better for the league than the Dolphins getting the #1? Like I said, crap is crap - I don't really see the issue.

Maybe the league sees it differently, but I don't think so. The league certainly didn't do anything when the Colts got the # 1 overall in their "Suck for Luck" campaign...and you could argue that their "tank" was more blatant than ours. At least we have a QB that was drafted top 10 last year...the Colts started Curtis Freakin' Painter for more than half the season to guarantee their tank! LOL

Anyway, it is what it is. I actually love the NFL draft system, so I really hope they never go to a lottery.

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Post by Degarmo Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:21 pm

It'd be about "integrity of the game", that's what they'd say.

I personally don't care, at all.  My point is simply, if they want to argue their "integrity" they're going to have to figure out a better angle.  I doubt they'll say anything as doing so would admit  past wrongdoing, and that's going to be for the commissioner that eventually cleans up football.

And just to be 100 percent clear, I really don't give a shit about it. I'm glad we're tanking. I wish we could just forfeit the games.

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Post by rightchea Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:36 am

Integrity is everything but at the same time if you keep trying to do the same thing over and over and it not working then do something else.

I feel that the Skins don't see themselves as tanking but trying to make it work. Gruden is a horrible coach and I have been reading reports that he doesn't like Haskins, which is why Colt McCoy is starting against the Patriots Laughing Laughing Laughing

Redskins are going through a rebuilding phase they are just trying to destroy themselves.

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Post by HalCHorn Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:57 pm

Damn, but I think we're going to beat these guys next week, based on what I saw against the Pats today.

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Post by JMP Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:02 am

"Integrity" is such a hard thing to judge, and I don't see any way the league could prove anything either way.

Wouldn't the Bengals have been guilty of hurting the "integrity of the game" by keeping Marvin Lewis as head coach for like a hundred years with no playoff wins??? I say that only half-jokingly...'integrity' is just a difficult, and maybe impossible, thing to prove.

But yeah, the Redskins are a terrible team and it's a game we could win.


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Post by JMP Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:20 am

Jay Gruden has been fired...

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Post by white1 Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:32 am

I get that it sucks to watch the product the Dolphins put on the field this year, and people don't want to pay to see it. But is watching a winless Redskins team any better simply because they have 'popular' veteran players like Vernon Davis, Adrian Peterson and Josh Norman? Would the 0-4 Dolphins somehow be more exciting with Laremy Tunsil and Minkah Fitzpatrick? Crap is crap, the way I see it.

Excellent point. I don't know if anyone shares this view, I legitimately had fun watching the first half of the Chargers game. We were competitive, loved watching Parker, Rosen, McMillan all make some nice plays. I even found myself bitching and yelling at the TV about Rowe's coverage and the missed FGs. So no, the tank has not been all doom and gloom for me. It's an interesting team to watch. In fact, I'm sure I would be LESS INTERESTED if we still had Tannehill, who you could argue is a better starting QB than Rosen.

"Integrity" is such a hard thing to judge, and I don't see any way the league could prove anything either way.

Wouldn't the Bengals have been guilty of hurting the "integrity of the game" by keeping Marvin Lewis as head coach for like a hundred years with no playoff wins??? I say that only half-jokingly...'integrity' is just a difficult, and maybe impossible, thing to prove.

Yep. In fact, Goodell has very few legitimate options to address the "tank" complaint. What's the alternative? Hey you should have kept your mediocre veteran QB because he's better than Fitz! Don't trade him! Hey you can't trade Tunsil and Stills, you could go 3-13 with better talent! You HAVE to sign a bunch of washed up free agents, even though they are expensive. Bust your cap!


Damn, but I think we're going to beat these guys next week, based on what I saw against the Pats today.

It's possible. I'm counting on some of that new-coach "lift" from their interim HC. Let's pray he's a good leader, regardless of how good he is with Xs and Os.

Flores will have our team ready. If the Redskins make enough mistakes, we will win, no doubt.
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Post by mercury22nathan Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:03 am

white1 wrote:Hey you should have kept your mediocre veteran QB because he's better than Fitz! Don't trade him! Hey you can't trade Tunsil and Stills

or Minkah. or Ja'Wuan. or Cam. and let's be honest, i really believe even if the Phins had kept all those players, they'd still be sitting at 0-4 right now.

white1 wrote:Flores will have our team ready.

hopefully so. they better be ready to face a heavy and frequent dose of Adrian Peterson all day long cause that's what Callahan is gonna hit them with.

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Post by JMP Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:10 am

white1 wrote:I don't know if anyone shares this view, I legitimately had fun watching the first half of the Chargers game.  We were competitive, loved watching Parker, Rosen, McMillan all make some nice plays.  I even found myself bitching and yelling at the TV about Rowe's coverage and the missed FGs.  So no, the tank has not been all doom and gloom for me.  It's an interesting team to watch.  In fact, I'm sure I would be LESS INTERESTED if we still had Tannehill, who you could argue is a better starting QB than Rosen.

Yep, the first half of that game was very enjoyable, and I was going crazy when Parker scored. That was the first time in a couple of years that I was actually excited about a Phins game.

Even with the losing, it is cool to watch some of these unheralded players start to develop. Seeing a guy like Prince hold his own against some high-level pass rushers, watching the continued improvement of Wilkins, seeing McMillan laying the wood in run support...it's actually fun (at least until the inevitable second half collapse...)


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Post by JMP Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:13 am

mercury22nathan wrote:i really believe even if the Phins had kept all those players, they'd still be sitting at 0-4 right now.

Yep, that's not even a question - 0-4 for sure.

mercury22nathan wrote:they better be ready to face a heavy and frequent dose of Adrian Peterson all day long cause that's what Callahan is gonna hit them with.

Yep, Callahan is old school and wants to run the ball. Plus, he'll need to establish the run in order to take pressure off McCoy or Haskins.

We did a great job against the run last week, so hopefully that continues. Run D just might be the biggest key for the Phins this week - stop the run and we're in this game.

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Post by white1 Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:40 am

Yep, Callahan is old school and wants to run the ball. Plus, he'll need to establish the run in order to take pressure off McCoy or Haskins.

We did a great job against the run last week, so hopefully that continues. Run D just might be the biggest key for the Phins this week - stop the run and we're in this game.

Even if we lose, seeing us contain the opponent running game would be a great sign for things to come.
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Post by mercury22nathan Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:55 am

Callahan took over Monday for fired coach Jay Gruden and made his presence felt on his first day running practice. Captains were stationed in front of their teammates during stretches. Players said they jogged more between drills -- and after practice, they ran sprints the width of the field. That's something they haven't done since training camp.

The offensive linemen who have worked with Callahan the past five years are used to the daily sessions of post-practice work. They stick around for 30 minutes each day -- and work 30 minutes before practice -- for extra work. On Wednesday, every group stayed with its position coaches for a session Callahan dubbed the developmental period.

They played music during stretching, but it was turned off for individual drills, unlike in most of the previous weeks. At 0-5, the Redskins knew something needed to change.

The players have already had multiple meetings with Callahan since he was named interim coach. On Wednesday, he laid out what was expected of them in practice.

"It's really again the focus of fundamental football," Callahan said. "I thought we got through a lot of good physicality and a lot of good fundamental drilling. I think that's the key. I think that's the name of the game. If you're not good in your fundamentals, you're not going to have them later in the game. That mental toughness about fundamentals is important, and if you don't practice them every day -- it's just like a golfer when he's on the tour. If he's not on the driving range hitting balls, he's not going to get better."

Collins said other differences were the tempo and planning for situational football. Callahan also spent time focusing on the first play of a drive, both offensively and defensively.

The Redskins have been an undisciplined team. They've committed the second-most penalties and too often blew coverages on defense. Because of the penalties, Callahan wanted to bring in the officials. But he is also known as a stickler for details with the line, stressing the exact placement of their hands for example.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27808959/interim-coach-bill-callahan-makes-presence-felt-first-redskins-practice

reminds me a lot of when Campbell took over the Phins as interim HC. i suspect the Skins will get a couple game "boost" by this approach before settling back into the talentless cluster-F they really are. the question is, have the Phins grown enough over the by week to overcome the "boost" that Callahan will give the Skins?

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Post by rightchea Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:17 am

The Dolphins are still looking for players that want to play and win. So for that to happen in a week I think not but that doesn't mean that the Redskins have grown either

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