BREAKING NEWS: Flores fired!!

I heard it was Flores that yelled at Tua. Which is ironic, since Flores's coaching staff is the one that decided to throw the ball 80% of the time in freezing rain and didn't bother to prepare for those conditions.

This times a thousand.

Tennessee had the correct game plan, they didn't ask Tannehill to throw the ball all over the field in those conditions. Yet that was our plan coming in. Why? Because we were so afraid to try and run the ball. Which, in fact, was actually working pretty well for us if we had stuck to it.

I continue to stand by what I said earlier in this thread. Grier needed to be held accountable for the "relationship" just as much as Flores. Also, he needed to be held accountable for the lack of talent on offense leading to a lopsided team that could only win if the defense was turning in a championship caliber performance every week. No team can bank on one side of the ball carrying the team all season. Especially against the high powered offenses in the league. Yes, I consider Tennessee a high powered offense fueled by an extremely reliable running game. And big play receivers when they want to take a shot.

Overall, I would be in a much better place and could look at this a lot more objectively if Ross had swept out the entire front office. Like the Bears and Vikings did.

Honestly, a Dolphins turnaround shouldn't be all that difficult. Hire a competent, experienced coach that doesn't have to learn on the job. Fix the OL and running game, and add a playmaker at WR. Do that and this is a playoff team right away.

This could work if we have some continuity on defense to go with it. Boyer may or may not be ready to call plays on defense, or craft the weekly game plan largely on his own. If we have a head coach with heavy offense background this may be a problem.

Alternatively, if we hire a good coach that can build a good staff, we would most likely see a transition to a 4-3 if Boyer is not retained. We'll have some attrition there but priority one would be trying to find a DC that plays a lot of press man coverage (Dennis Allen is one example I think). Our secondary is probably our best asset on that side of the ball. Don't ask them to play zone it won't work.

HalCHorn wrote:I think Flores was safe if they'd made the playoffs, no way to spin that as a negative as the team would have shown progress each season in the end.

I think he also would have been safe with a close, tough, competitive loss in Tennessee.

I think 34-3 with everything on the line sealed it.  Every bit as embarrassing as the egg laid in Buffalo with it all on the line last year.  

Yep. I think the Tennessee disaster was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. It had become a pattern with Flores: in a big, important game the offense would be non-existent and the defense would get trounced - every time. Flores showed absolutely zero progress in those situations.

In his statement of support, Jesse Davis (who had no business starting), revealed what was really wrong with Flores’ tenure.

Davis suggested the coaching turnover — with frequent changes at offensive coordinator and offensive line coach — didn’t help: “Since I’ve been here, I’ve had seven. Different techniques, different coaching styles, different schemes. “That contributes to a lot of things. It’s how well you take to the coaching and understand stuff.... Ideally you want the same guys coaching your guys and letting one voice in the room coach your guys.”

Flores had four different offensive coordinators and four different offensive line coaches in his three seasons as coach.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article256840502.html

Flores was unable to find a cohesive offensive staff he could work with. And if the indications are true, it appears he wanted to change it yet again for Watson. Considering the current staff was brought in to develop Tua, I strongly suspect many of the offensive staff would’ve been flushed for Watson. If its true that Flores was actively undermining his current starting QB by being the driving force behind the Watson desires (and benching him for the mystery finger injury), then his firing is more than justified (kind of like how Philbin wanted Carr instead of Tannehill).

As a matter of fact, if you focus solely on their records, Flores looks a lot like his two predecessors.

Philbin 24-28
Gase 23-25
Flores 24-25

And I don’t hear anybody complaining about their firing.

white1 wrote:
Overall, I would be in a much better place and could look at this a lot more objectively if Ross had swept out the entire front office.  Like the Bears and Vikings did.

Yeah, that is what should have happened. And Grier just bought himself anther 3 years because he gets to hire the next coach.

But another way to look at it is: there is a solid foundation of young players on the roster, brought in by Grier, and we did just have two consecutive winning seasons. Maybe the coaching change is what the team needs to get to the next level. Not saying I entirely believe that, but that's where we are right now, like it or not.

white1 wrote:

Honestly, a Dolphins turnaround shouldn't be all that difficult. Hire a competent, experienced coach that doesn't have to learn on the job. Fix the OL and running game, and add a playmaker at WR. Do that and this is a playoff team right away.

This could work if we have some continuity on defense to go with it.  Boyer may or may not be ready to call plays on defense, or craft the weekly game plan largely on his own.  If we have a head coach with heavy offense background this may be a problem.

Alternatively, if we hire a good coach that can build a good staff, we would most likely see a transition to a 4-3 if Boyer is not retained.  We'll have some attrition there but priority one would be trying to find a DC that plays a lot of press man coverage (Dennis Allen is one example I think).  Our secondary is probably our best asset on that side of the ball.  Don't ask them to play zone it won't work.

I'm not as worried about the D because I think we have enough pieces in place that a competent coach can step right in and do good work. It's also a big positive that the D was multiple under Flores - meaning, it should be a fairly easy transition to any style of D since we did use many alignments and formations. This could easily be a full-time 4-3, with some help at LB, if that's the direction they choose. I'd love to see what Fangio could do with this group.

mercury22nathan wrote:In his statement of support, Jesse Davis (who had no business starting), revealed what was really wrong with Flores’ tenure.

Davis suggested the coaching turnover — with frequent changes at offensive coordinator and offensive line coach — didn’t help: “Since I’ve been here, I’ve had seven. Different techniques, different coaching styles, different schemes. “That contributes to a lot of things. It’s how well you take to the coaching and understand stuff.... Ideally you want the same guys coaching your guys and letting one voice in the room coach your guys.”

Flores had four different offensive coordinators and four different offensive line coaches in his three seasons as coach.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article256840502.html

Flores was unable to find a cohesive offensive staff he could work with.  And if the indications are true, it appears he wanted to change it yet again for Watson.  Considering the current staff was brought in to develop Tua, I strongly suspect many of the offensive staff would’ve been flushed for Watson.  If its true that Flores was actively undermining his current starting QB by being the driving force behind the Watson desires (and benching him for the mystery finger injury), then his firing is more than justified (kind of like how Philbin wanted Carr instead of Tannehill).

As a matter of fact, if you focus solely on their records, Flores looks a lot like his two predecessors.

Philbin 24-28
Gase 23-25
Flores 24-25

And I don’t hear anybody complaining about their firing.

Great post, merc. The offensive coaching blunders are, in my mind, the main justification for the firing. Flores continually made the wrong choices with his hires and constantly changed the offense. O'Shea had no business being an OC, Gailey was retired and was brought in solely to coach Fitzpatrick and was blindsided by Tua becoming the starter, Godsey wasn't ready to be an OC and was paired with a rookie OL coach. Each and every one of these decisions was set up to fail - and fail they did.

This is an offensive-driven league now. Flores didn't understand that, and ultimately it cost him his job.

HalCHorn wrote:Flores wanting Herbert and being overruled by Grier/possibly Ross wanting Tua now makes sense.

That said, while Herbert does appear to be further along than Tua---who wouldn't be with the line and coordinators Tua had this year?  And while the kid made mistakes, Tua also showed a lot of grit and a lot of promise.

I too am all in on Pederson.  Quinn appears to be the quintessential "good DC, mediocre HC" who just happened to catch lightning in a bottle with Ryan's career year in 2016.  Caldwell is good, but Pederson is better, and I have a feeling O'Connell isn't ready and Daboll will flop as a HC.

Put it this way, three men have taken the Eagles to the SB: Vermeil, Reid and Pederson.  The first two also took their second teams to the Super Bowl and won it with them.  The third is looking for that second team.

Agreed on all points.

One of the main reasons I want Pederson is because he is a master of the RPO, and he knows what is needed to successfully run it. Tua was the best RPO QB college football has ever seen, and I think pairing him with Pederson would be ideal.

Reading all of this and zeroing in on our failures on offense have made me more comfortable with moving on from Flores.

I still think the Dolphins made this move for the wrong reasons, and should have fired Grier as well. But, even if for the wrong reasons, it looks like (while uncomfortable and unpopular) they stumbled into at least a partially right move.

Flores had proven he could not solve the problems on offense. He had proven that he could not retain key staff members. The resignation of Graham from year one and his acceptance of a lateral opportunity starts to speak more loudly in retrospect. As well as the mystery illness striking Caldwell, who is now right back in the mix for some of the jobs out there. Maybe even Miami.

Based on his track record, there is no doubt Flores was not satisfied with his offense in 2021. He would have swept out the offensive staff yet again. Also based on his track record, you would see more junior OC and OL coaches given that's all he has proven able to attract and hire.

The equation kind of sums up as Flores + Known Defense + Another Weak Offense vs Candidate X + Unknown Defense + Better Offense. I say better offense confidently because we have been bottom dwellers for three years, it's no stretch that there WILL be improvement there. Breaking it down like this I would take candidate X. Offense rules this league. You HAVE to be effective on that side of the ball. There are a number of defensive coordinators out there who just bring defense with them, almost overnight. Not so on offense.

Ultimately I am now okay with the move, even if I think it's for the wrong reasons. I maintain that Grier should have been fired, but given more problems on the field, even his time will come. If things don't change, Ross will run out of patience with him too.

Great post, white. There really are many layers to the Flores firing, with a lot of things to sort out. I was completely blown away when I heard the news, and really not happy because I do think we're close.

But as I started to think about it, the main issue for me is offense. You simply cannot win meaningful games in today's NFL without some type of high-powered, high-scoring offense. Flores couldn't build an offense like that in 3 years, and there was zero indication that he'd be able to in year 4. I honestly don't think he even wants a high-powered offense...seems like he just wants to keep the game close and have his D win it, which is an antiquated philosophy.

Carson said it best earlier this season: in order to win, you need an offense that can put 30+ points on the board. Not every week - but when you need to do it, you have to be able to do it. The Dolphin offense under Flores could not do that. In fact, the only time this season that the Phins scored over 30 was against the Jets - one of the league's worst defenses. That is on Flores for hiring a rookie OL coach and rookie OCs.

The one thing I hate about this: Flores' handling of the offense here looks a lot like Belicheck's handling of the offense in Cleveland 1991-1995. Belicheck's undoing was his lack of people skills there--he was correct that Kosar was declining, but left himself no out by just cutting him mid-season (remember Todd Philcox having to start a game that year?). Belicheck did show a capacity to learn, and took 4 more years under Parcells with great success as a DC again before converting his second chance in a big way.

I can see Flores going back to NE, learning what he did wrong under Belicheck the same way Belicheck did his second time around under Parcells, and then coming back and doing a killer job on defense for a few years, and then a great job as a HC the second time around. Unfortunately. I hope he gets a HC job elsewhere so he doesn't wind up back in NE, killing us over the next few years.

It's a legitimate concern Hal, IMO he's not going back. There are enough openings this round I believe he will be hired as a head coach based on his track record.

It will be very interesting if this does happen, to see who he brings in to run his offense, AND to see how many staff members he raids from Miami.

white1 wrote:He had proven that he could not retain key staff members.  The resignation of Graham from year one and his acceptance of a lateral opportunity starts to speak more loudly in retrospect.  As well as the mystery illness striking Caldwell, who is now right back in the mix for some of the jobs out there.

and perhaps the debacle with Minkah Fitzpatrick requires a second look. perhaps it wasn't so much what Flores was asking him to do, but the way Flores was dealing with Fitzpatrick that caused the bad relationship. he has gone on to play pretty well at Pittsburgh, playing the same multiple roles he supposedly refused to play in Miami. hmmm? and Van Noy seemed pretty happy to get out of Miami and back to NE too. and Kamu Grugier-Hill is having a pretty good season for a bad Houston team (100 tackles), but seems happier there.

mercury22nathan wrote:

white1 wrote:He had proven that he could not retain key staff members.  The resignation of Graham from year one and his acceptance of a lateral opportunity starts to speak more loudly in retrospect.  As well as the mystery illness striking Caldwell, who is now right back in the mix for some of the jobs out there.

and perhaps the debacle with Minkah Fitzpatrick requires a second look.  perhaps it wasn't so much what Flores was asking him to do, but the way Flores was dealing with Fitzpatrick that caused the bad relationship.  he has gone on to play pretty well at Pittsburgh, playing the same multiple roles he supposedly refused to play in Miami.  hmmm?  and Van Noy seemed pretty happy to get out of Miami and back to NE too.  and Kamu Grugier-Hill is having a pretty good season for a bad Houston team (100 tackles), but seems happier there.

I seem to recall saying pretty much this at the time. But everybody else wanted to believe Minkah had mommy issues.

I love the rationalizing BTW. Even if *all* the bad stuff about Flores is true, it still doesn't change the fact that Grier is still around to do the hiring and drafting, both of which he's been mediocre AT BEST.

Minkah did have mommy issues. His mother complained constantly to the media about how he was being "misused". Mothers rule...but they don't need to fight your battles at your job. That's embarrassing, and a sign of Minkah's immaturity.

JMP wrote:Minkah did have mommy issues. His mother complained constantly to the media about how he was being "misused".  Mothers rule...but they don't need to fight your battles at your job.  That's embarrassing, and a sign of Minkah's immaturity.

But how do we know he asked her to do that? He doesn't have control over what his mother tweets any more than we do. I'm just glad I'm not held accountable for what my mom posts on Facebook!

DolFan 316 wrote:

JMP wrote:Minkah did have mommy issues. His mother complained constantly to the media about how he was being "misused".  Mothers rule...but they don't need to fight your battles at your job.  That's embarrassing, and a sign of Minkah's immaturity.

But how do we know he asked her to do that? He doesn't have control over what his mother tweets any more than we do. I'm just glad I'm not held accountable for what my mom posts on Facebook!  

It doesn't matter if he didn't ask her - he didn't stop her! Of course he's accountable - it's his job.

Anyway, I consider him one of the most overrated players in the league, and I'm glad we have Jevon Holland.

Miami looks like a terrible team to come to if you are a head coaching candidate. You get stuck with Grier and must be subservient to his picks. You get stuck with a QB that doesn't throw down field. Seems like a coach is hamstrung from the get go.

My prediction of Tua lasting 4 years still stands.

New coach will coach Tua in 2022 and draft his replacement in 2023.

CarsonChris wrote:Miami looks like a terrible team to come to if you are a head coaching candidate. You get stuck with Grier and must be subservient to his picks. You get stuck with a QB that doesn't throw down field. Seems like a coach is hamstrung from the get go.

My prediction of Tua lasting 4 years still stands.

New coach will coach Tua in 2022 and draft his replacement in 2023.

I think the Dolphins are by far the best available job. An established strong defense is a huge attraction, especially for an offensive coach.

Tua is also a huge draw for a coach that understands offense and knows what he's doing. One of the all-time great college QBs who has more TDs than turnovers AND a winning record in barely over a season's worth of starting??? That's almost unheard of, and I would imagine there are tons of offensive coaches that would LOVE to work with him. You don't get opportunities like that too often. Most QBs start off as turnover machines and losers...even most of the all-time greats.

As for Grier - he's the GM. He drafts the picks. That's how it is with almost every team, unless you have a Hall of Fame coach like BB or Reid who has earned the right to do his on shopping.

First... I am astounded that JMP still thinks the reason Minkah did not work out in Miami is Minkah!! It was always Flores IMHO. A secure HC would have recognized the talent and used it properly.

Second... Flores NEEDED to go... for all the reasons JMP has listed and others have pointed out, but the one that needs to be REPEATED... Flores had the same Defensive-bias that Dave Dumbstedt had... when he got a lead he started playing ultra-conservative on offense and backed-off the pressure defense. How many games did the Phins lose late when they had the lead cause Flores played that soft prevent shyte defense that ALMOST let the Pats come back on the Phins. If not for two fortunate runs for first downs by Tua, the Pats WOULD Have come back IMO. The Dolphins would NEVER have won a Super Bowl with Flores as HC.

THIRD... Flores can coach defense, but a coach who has the problems he had with the offensive players and the highly drafted QB should NEVER be a HC IMO. The HC needs too make the TEAM work to win a game, not to make his defense great. I get the feeling Flores was concerned Tua was not good enough to allow him to play offense like he wanted the offense to play to complement his defense!! That is one truly screwed up concept for a HC to have for his offense IMO. With the NFL today, offense is king. The Phins have to get a HC who KNOWS THAT ABOVE EVERYTHING ELSE!

Four... I heard Flores wanted Herbert... I was half-convinced the Phins were going to take Herbert, but the talk was just a little too loud, so I convinced myself it was a smokescreen to prevent someone from jumping up to get Tua ahead of them. But it seems obvious now... Flores wanted Herbert. Ross (and maybe Grier too) wanted Tua. Ross wanted to sell tickets and he thought Tua could do that better than Herbert. I would have taken Herbert, but I was not too upset with Tua. If he can ever get to the level of QB he played at Bama....

In the end, Flores needed to go. No Matter how good the defense got, the offense was always going to be scroogied up by Flores protecting "his" defense. That is no way for an NFL team to function.

Grier got three solid A grades on his first three draft picks in this draft. If they can get a HC who KNOWS how to assemble a staff, who can fix the offense, work with Tua, and maybe GUIDE Grier in the free agency period... that would be a HUGE IMPROVEMENT.

I ain't confident Ross can pull it off, but...

I am all in on Pederson. I think he would be a great fit. So, naturally, that means he will not come to Miami!

(sigh)

The Herald has some details on why Flores (and not Grier) was dismissed. A lot of it has to do with Flores being really difficult and not always being nice to players and other staff – but nothing overly egregious or beyond what has been reported about other high strung NFL coaches. But the power struggle was real.

Flores already was essentially running the Dolphins building, according to a source in direct contact with Dolphins management. But he wanted even more control, the source said. He wanted the authority formalized, to eliminate the contract annoyance of general manager Chris Grier having final say on the draft and free agency.

He wanted more power in everything, final say on virtually everything. He wanted more people to report to him. He already had full authority to pick a coaching staff and planned to make more changes, beginning with the offensive staff. At least one of the offensive coordinators was expecting to be dismissed, if not both.

What’s strange about this is that Grier — who likes to avoid conflict — basically gave Flores everything he wanted. There wasn’t a single player on the roster that Flores didn’t sign off on. And yet Grier’s deference still wasn’t enough to appease Flores or sooth tensions between the two.

As one Dolphins person said, people need to stop blaming Grier entirely for the personnel moves that didn’t work out the past three years and blame them both equally. And both deserve credit for the ones that worked out.

There were plenty of examples of Flores demanding his way on things that weren’t necessarily under his domain. He lobbied for the dismissal of Matt Taylor, the team’s top football media relations person, last spring, over the objections of the two executives who wanted to keep him, including team president Tom Garfinkel. Flores got his way, as he usually did.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article256841207.html

I wonder why Flores wanted all this control and didn’t see working collaborative with Grier as a path forward. Was it ego? Or was it because he had a plan (WATSON) that he knew he couldn’t get past Grier? Perhaps he didn’t respect Grier’s abilities as much as we’ve been led to believe?

I asked someone who has worked with both Grier and Flores why Grier keeps surviving but the coaches (Adam Gase, Flores) take the fall.

That source said Grier has aligned himself with Garfinkel — who has Ross’ ear — and Grier’s ability to get along with people and be a good soldier carries weight with owner Stephen Ross.

Grier also is respectful to the owner. An unidentified Dolphins person leaked to a local columnist after Flores’ dismissal that Flores disrespected Ross.

That’s important to Ross — perhaps more important than Grier’s (and Flores’) personnel mistakes during the past three years.

If there is one thing, Grier seems to be good at kissing Ross’ ass and doing what he wants.

So was this firing about performance or more about playing nice with others and kissing Ross' ass?

finfanatic wrote:First... I am astounded that JMP still thinks the reason Minkah did not work out in Miami is Minkah!! It was always Flores IMHO. A secure HC would have recognized the talent and used it properly.

Second... Flores NEEDED to go... for all the reasons JMP has listed and others have pointed out, but the one that needs to be REPEATED... Flores had the same Defensive-bias that Dave Dumbstedt had... when he got a lead he started playing ultra-conservative on offense and backed-off the pressure defense.   How many games did the Phins lose late when they had the lead cause Flores played that soft prevent shyte defense that ALMOST let the Pats come back on the Phins. If not for two fortunate runs for first downs by Tua, the Pats WOULD Have come back IMO. The Dolphins would NEVER have won a Super Bowl with Flores as HC.

THIRD... Flores can coach defense, but a coach who has the problems he had with the offensive players and the highly drafted QB should NEVER be a HC IMO.  The HC needs too make the TEAM work to win a game, not to make his defense great. I get the feeling Flores was concerned Tua was not good enough to allow him to play offense like he wanted the offense to play to complement his defense!!  That is one truly screwed up concept for a HC to have for his offense IMO.  With the NFL today, offense is king. The Phins have to get a HC who KNOWS THAT ABOVE EVERYTHING ELSE!

Four... I heard Flores wanted Herbert... I was half-convinced the Phins were going to take Herbert, but the talk was just a little too loud, so I convinced myself it was a smokescreen to prevent someone from jumping up to get Tua ahead of them.  But it seems obvious now... Flores wanted Herbert. Ross (and maybe Grier too) wanted Tua.  Ross wanted to sell tickets and he thought Tua could do that better than Herbert. I would have taken Herbert, but I was not too upset with Tua. If he can ever get to the level of QB he played at Bama....

In the end, Flores needed to go. No Matter how good the defense got, the offense was always going to be scroogied up by Flores protecting "his" defense.  That is no way for an NFL team to function.

Grier got three solid A grades on his first three draft picks in this draft.  If they can get a HC who KNOWS how to assemble a staff, who can fix the offense, work with Tua, and maybe GUIDE Grier in the free agency period... that would be a HUGE IMPROVEMENT.

I ain't confident Ross can pull it off, but...

I am all in on Pederson.  I think he would be a great fit. So, naturally, that means he will not come to Miami!

(sigh)

Outstanding post, FF! I'm in complete agreement...except on Minkah.

The kid clearly didn't want to be in Miami, and he orchestrated his way out of by having his mommy do his dirty work. When he was in the draft process, he talked about how versatile he was and how he was willing and able to play multiple positions. The Dolphins asked him to do just that, and he and his mommy whined about it and said he only wanted to be a free safety. He became a distraction, and after a very mediocre rookie season the Dolphins shipped him out and got top value for him. I was in favor of the move then, and I'm in favor of it now. I have no tolerance for immature, selfish players that put themselves over the team (like Deshaun Watson...) Good riddance.

I heard from two different sources in So Fla back during the 1-7 period, that there was a lot of "grumbling" about Flores. I remember one of the sources saying that most of the O-line players thought Flores was a jerk.

I don't know. But it is obvious there was SOMETHING going on. If Flores wanted full control, I am even more sure that Ross did the right think in kicking Flores to the curb.

Where Gase was an abrasive arrogant Offensive minded OC who reached his level of incompetence as a HC, Flores has turned out to be an abrasive arrogant Defensive minded DC who has reached his level of incompetence as a HC.

And just like Gase, I suspect some team is going to hire Flores... and give him too much control, with Flores though, they will have a good defense and an offense that stinks...eventually.

I just heard Cowherd saying that Flores fixed the defense and Grier couldn't get the QB or the O-line fixed. If Flores was in on all the decisions, then that sorta destroys the whole "The Dolphins must be crazy" narrative IMO.

mercury22nathan wrote:The Herald has some details on why Flores (and not Grier) was dismissed.  A lot of it has to do with Flores being really difficult and not always being nice to players and other staff – but nothing overly egregious or beyond what has been reported about other high strung NFL coaches.  But the power struggle was real.

Flores already was essentially running the Dolphins building, according to a source in direct contact with Dolphins management. But he wanted even more control, the source said. He wanted the authority formalized, to eliminate the contract annoyance of general manager Chris Grier having final say on the draft and free agency.

He wanted more power in everything, final say on virtually everything. He wanted more people to report to him. He already had full authority to pick a coaching staff and planned to make more changes, beginning with the offensive staff. At least one of the offensive coordinators was expecting to be dismissed, if not both.

What’s strange about this is that Grier — who likes to avoid conflict — basically gave Flores everything he wanted. There wasn’t a single player on the roster that Flores didn’t sign off on. And yet Grier’s deference still wasn’t enough to appease Flores or sooth tensions between the two.

As one Dolphins person said, people need to stop blaming Grier entirely for the personnel moves that didn’t work out the past three years and blame them both equally. And both deserve credit for the ones that worked out.

There were plenty of examples of Flores demanding his way on things that weren’t necessarily under his domain. He lobbied for the dismissal of Matt Taylor, the team’s top football media relations person, last spring, over the objections of the two executives who wanted to keep him, including team president Tom Garfinkel. Flores got his way, as he usually did.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article256841207.html

I wonder why Flores wanted all this control and didn’t see working collaborative with Grier as a path forward.  Was it ego?  Or was it because he had a plan (WATSON) that he knew he couldn’t get past Grier?  Perhaps he didn’t respect Grier’s abilities as much as we’ve been led to believe?

I asked someone who has worked with both Grier and Flores why Grier keeps surviving but the coaches (Adam Gase, Flores) take the fall.

That source said Grier has aligned himself with Garfinkel — who has Ross’ ear — and Grier’s ability to get along with people and be a good soldier carries weight with owner Stephen Ross.

Grier also is respectful to the owner. An unidentified Dolphins person leaked to a local columnist after Flores’ dismissal that Flores disrespected Ross.

That’s important to Ross — perhaps more important than Grier’s (and Flores’) personnel mistakes during the past three years.

If there is one thing, Grier seems to be good at kissing Ross’ ass and doing what he wants.

So was this firing about performance or more about playing nice with others and kissing Ross' ass?

VERY interesting stuff here, and if true I can totally see why Flores was fired.

The part about Ross wanting respect is definitely believable...I remember he fired Gase the day after (or was it the night of?) Gase walked passed him and completely ignored him.

Flores has not earned the right to try a power takeover - sorry, he just hasn't. And again his constant building and rebuilding of the offensive staff has been disastrous. Seems to me like he dug his own grave.

Like I said, my preference was to keep Flores - but the more I hear, the more it seems like it was never going to work for him here.

finfanatic wrote:I heard from two different sources in So Fla back during the 1-7 period, that there was a lot of "grumbling" about Flores. I remember one of the sources saying that most of the O-line players thought Flores was a jerk.

I don't know. But it is obvious there was SOMETHING going on. If Flores wanted full control, I am even more sure that Ross did the right think in kicking Flores to the curb.  

Where Gase was an abrasive arrogant Offensive minded OC who reached his level of incompetence as a HC, Flores has turned out to be an abrasive arrogant Defensive minded DC who has reached his level of incompetence as a HC.

And just like Gase, I suspect some team is going to hire Flores... and give him too much control, with Flores though, they will have a good defense and an offense that stinks...eventually.

I just heard Cowherd saying that Flores fixed the defense and Grier couldn't get the QB or the O-line fixed. If Flores was in on all the decisions, then that sorta destroys the whole "The Dolphins must be crazy" narrative IMO.

Good thoughts, FF.

With the offense, not getting the OL fixed is completely on Flores for not hiring a competent coach. As bad as the OL was this season, some of the key players (Jackson, Davis and Hunt - and even a backup like Kindley) were SIGNIFICANTLY better the previous season - with a veteran OL coach. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that if you hire a new coach and your previous players regressed and your new players sucked, it's probably a coaching issue.

And Grier did get a QB...Flores just didn't know what the hell to do with him. No QB was ever going to succeed in this dumpster fire of an offense, led by incompetent and inexperienced coaches.