Some QB's + Phins sign Mike White

It's that time of year again when QB's are working on their game in the off-season. Meanwhile our QB is learning Ring around the Rosie pocket full of posies ashes ashes Tua falls down.

We can not go into this season without a plan for Tua not being on the field! We must draft or sign a player that can function at a high level on the field.

I wouldn't waste money on another crappy veteran backup. With limited cap space and draft picks we have much bigger needs. I'd just use Skylar as the #2 and continue to develop him.

Who would the Fins get, and how would they get them? They don't have the cap room or picks to bring in anybody other than another late round rookie. Jimmy G's just s injury prone as Tua. Carr's too expensive. It'll just have to be Tua or bust for one more season.

I'd like to draft some competition for Skylar and develop both. Tune is my first choice among the Day 3 possibilities. Maybe a little biased because I've been seeing him play for the last 3 years, but he's improved each year. I said he's this year's Zappe, but I think Tune is the better of the two.

DolFan 316 wrote:Who would the Fins get, and how would they get them? They don't have the cap room or picks to bring in anybody other than another late round rookie. Jimmy G's just s injury prone as Tua. Carr's too expensive. It'll just have to be Tua or bust for one more season.

Yeah, just look at the available free agent QBs, forgetting Carr who is of course not an option:
Baker Mayfield
Sam Darnold
Jimmy G
Teddy Bridgewater
Daniel Jones (will be a starter somewhere, probably staying with the Giants)
Case Keenum
Mason Rudolph
Jacoby Brissett
Geno Smith (will be a starter somewhere, probably staying with the Seahawks)
Joe Flacco
Andy Dalton
Mike White
CJ Beathard
Kyle Allen
Taylor Heinicke
Blaine Gabbert
Chase Daniel
Nick Mullens
Drew Lock
Brandon Allen
Josh Johnson
Nate Sudfeld
Nathan Peterman
Jeff Driskel
Cooper Rush
Trace McSorley
Jarrett Sidham
Gardner Minshew

That's a list of varying degrees of CRAP.  Gardner Minshew, Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold are probably the best names on the list, depending on how you rate crap, and that pretty much says it all.  Signing any of those guys is a waste of time and money, and really adds nothing to the roster.  For once, let's actually develop the young QB we have and put that money to much better use on a position of real need.  

The fact is, if we need a backup QB to play, Skylar Thompson can lose just as many games as anyone on the above list - and at a fraction of the cost.

Beathard was in San Fran right? So he should know the offense at least.

I agree though... I am totally fine with having Skylar as the #2 QB. I saw enough to think with some more experience the Phins might be on to something.

I agree though... I am totally fine with having Skylar as the #2 QB. I saw enough to think with some more experience the Phins might be on to something.

If his receivers had a better game, he beats Buffalo in the playoffs - in Buffalo. That's a pretty good sign he has some talent. And he's no where near his ceiling yet.

white1 wrote:

I agree though... I am totally fine with having Skylar as the #2 QB. I saw enough to think with some more experience the Phins might be on to something.

If his receivers had a better game, he beats Buffalo in the playoffs - in Buffalo.  That's a pretty good sign he has some talent.  And he's no where near his ceiling yet.

Very true. As bad as Skylar was in that game, Waddle catches two of his drops and that's two TDs right there - not even considering all the other drops he and other receivers had. One thing Skylar showed was toughness and an ability to compete. That's a great start.

The first QB domino falls: Derek Carr is signing with the Saints.

Holy crap! The Giants signed Daniel Jones for 4 years, $160 million!

$40 million per year average for a guy that has thrown 11, 10 and 15 TDs over the past 3 seasons. Wow. What the hell is Burrow's deal going to look like if a crap QB like Jones gets $40 million???

Jones must have Pictures on Someone to get that. Barkley probaly got the Franchise Tag then. If Tua stays Healthy for once than his Price will be Higher than that, Now Fins have no choice but to Pick up His Option for a 5th Year.

Yeah, at least we now know for sure that the Phins will pick up Tua's option - it has to be done and buys the team time before they have to commit long-term to an absurd deal.

It seems like these days, it's almost better to dump your QB once his rookie deal is up and just start over - no matter how good he is. The QB salaries just cripple a team's ability to build a champion. The Chiefs are the obvious exception...winning a Super Bowl with Mahomes, Kelce and a roster filled with rookies and veteran castoffs. That's not really a blueprint other teams can follow!

JMP wrote:Yeah, at least we now know for sure that the Phins will pick up Tua's option - it has to be done and buys the team time before they have to commit long-term to an absurd deal.

It seems like these days, it's almost better to dump your QB once his rookie deal is up and just start over - no matter how good he is.  The QB salaries just cripple a team's ability to build a champion.  The Chiefs are the obvious exception...winning a Super Bowl with Mahomes, Kelce and a roster filled with rookies and veteran castoffs.  That's not really a blueprint other teams can follow!

You wouldn't think that (I sure didn't) but the last two Super Bowls have been won by Mahomes and Stafford (then again, Staffford's 2021 cap number must've been absurdly cheap considering it will be "only" 20 mil this season according to overthecap.com). The title before that was won by that Tom Brady guy. Mahomes won it before that, albeit this was right before signing his ginormous contract.

On the other hand...HOF caliber QBs like Brees and Rodgers have just one title each and Peyton Manning is the only really highly paid one besides Brady to win a title in the last decade or so.

I do still think the market for QBs as well as all other players has gotten way out of hand and the same teams who are now in a cap bind and releasing players seem dumb enough to repeat their mistakes again, sadly.

I also still say they might as well just elevate Skylar to #2 since they really can't afford to bring in a stopgap vet to stink it up for a few games now.

Well, as usual the highly publicized deal figure is way over the "actual" contract in detail.

This, from PFT:

As it was explained to PFT, if Jones performs in 2023 as he did in 2022, he will earn another $1.75 million in 2023 incentives and another $1.75 million in 2024 escalators. At that same level over the life of the contract, he’ll earn $12.25 million of the available $35 million, pushing the total value to $172.25 million — an annual average of $43.06 million.

That said, it’s basically a three-year, $112.5 million contract, given that the $47.5 million due in 2026 is not guaranteed. That’s an average of $37.5 million.

Funny, but $37 million per year was kind of the going-in thinking, then figures started getting tossed around well north of 40.

Clearly I'm in the minority but I like DJ. He will continue to develop and get better under Daboll - Kafka. The stats posted for his first years are in bad offenses, under bad, bad head coaches. Last year was not only his best statistically, it was done with guys signed off the street and starting at WR the same week. Good defenses (like Philly) simply swarmed Saquon Barkley, knowing that without him the receivers were no threat and easily covered man to man. I don't care if Tom Brady in his prime was in that offense - we saw how ugly it got in New England when the cupboard was bare at WR.

One last point, DJ is a great running threat. Not as big as Josh Allen but fast. His legs add a nice dimension to the offense.

All in all it's a good move for the Giants. Gives them three years to continue developing Jones, build the roster, and clean up the Gettleman cap mess. And - they can tag Barkley which is absolutely the right move there. Giving him a huge deal would be a mistake as Dallas demonstrated with Zeke. Hopefully they won't do that.

Agreed, I'd pick up Tua's fifth year option, and begin restocking draft assets just in case we need them in a year or two.

white1 wrote:Well, as usual the highly publicized deal figure is way over the "actual" contract in detail.

This, from PFT:

As it was explained to PFT, if Jones performs in 2023 as he did in 2022, he will earn another $1.75 million in 2023 incentives and another $1.75 million in 2024 escalators. At that same level over the life of the contract, he’ll earn $12.25 million of the available $35 million, pushing the total value to $172.25 million — an annual average of $43.06 million.

That said, it’s basically a three-year, $112.5 million contract, given that the $47.5 million due in 2026 is not guaranteed. That’s an average of $37.5 million.

Funny, but $37 million per year was kind of the going-in thinking, then figures started getting tossed around well north of 40.  

Clearly I'm in the minority but I like DJ.  He will continue to develop and get better under Daboll - Kafka.  The stats posted for his first years are in bad offenses, under bad, bad head coaches.  Last year was not only his best statistically, it was done with guys signed off the street and starting at WR the same week.  Good defenses (like Philly) simply swarmed Saquon Barkley, knowing that without him the receivers were no threat and easily covered man to man. I don't care if Tom Brady in his prime was in that offense - we saw how ugly it got in New England when the cupboard was bare at WR.

One last point, DJ is a great running threat.  Not as big as Josh Allen but fast.  His legs add a nice dimension to the offense.  

All in all it's a good move for the Giants.  Gives them three years to continue developing Jones, build the roster, and clean up the Gettleman cap mess.  And - they can tag Barkley which is absolutely the right move there. Giving him a huge deal would be a mistake as Dallas demonstrated with Zeke.  Hopefully they won't do that.

Nice work on the numbers breakdown, white. But even at $37.5 million per year, it's an absurd amount for a player that has never done anything. I've already discussed his pitiful TD numbers, but he also has a career yards per attempt of just 6.7 and a career passer rating of just 86.5. Those are bad numbers. Most teams would be looking to dump a guy with those stats as soon as possible, not reward him with a gigantic contract.

I view the Giants' offense as very similar to the Titans:
--When King Henry has a big game, Tannehill can rely on playaction, sitting in a clean pocket and finding open receivers all day. But when Henry is out or gets stopped by the opposing D, Tannehill falls flat and can't get the job done - and the Titans lose.
--In the same way, when Barkley has a big game for the Giants, Daniel Jones benefits and can make some plays. But the second Barkley is eliminated, the game is over because Jones simply isn't a good enough passer.

Yes, the Giants have had some bad offenses - but that includes the play of Daniel Jones. He's been a coach-killer thus far, and unless he takes a massive step forward in the next 2 years, Daboll is going to be looking for a new job just like his predecessors.

Jones is a very good runner - I'll give him that. At least now that he has seemingly learned to hold onto the ball. But I've seen no evidence that he is, or could be, a franchise QB that can lead the Giants to a championship. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, and I'll give him credit if he does - but right now I just think he's a bottom-of-the-barrel starter.

(I don't mean t be a dick, and I apologize if it comes off that way - I know you like the Giants, white. Just calling it like I see it!)

As far as Barkley, the key with him is always going to be staying healthy. I consider him a top 5 back, maybe even top 3, and I am definitely a fan. I love watching him play. But it just seems foolish to spend big money on a RB these days, when you can find great backs on days 2 and 3 of the draft with relative ease. I find it very interesting that 3 teams franchised RBs this week (Giants, Raiders, Cowboys)...that seems to go against the way the league has gone these days.

HalCHorn wrote:Agreed, I'd pick up Tua's fifth year option, and begin restocking draft assets just in case we need them in a year or two.

Yeah, $23 million is a no brainer at this point, when you see the QB money being thrown around. It really is a double-edged sword: if your QB is really good, you have to pay him north of $40 million per year and go cheap with the rest of the roster - but if he's not good, you can't win. That rookie QB contract window closes quickly, and if you don't get a ring during that first deal it's really hard to build a complete roster after you shell out the big bucks.

On the Giants - Using he franchise tag to keep Jones for the next three years was gonna average out at 40-42 mill, and they would have had to pay Barkley.

They keep Jones for the next three years for LESS THAN the average of using the franchise tag on him (three years in a row), get another year of Barkley for 10-11 mill. Barkley stays healthy they might negotiate a deal, but probably not. T'were I the Giants, I would be drafting a RB to take over from Saquon and move on next year. Or heck, if the rookie RB looks good, maybe this year!!

Unless the Phins do something extraordinarily stupid, which is my fear, seeing as how the Phins owner is a notoriously stupid arsewipe... I think they will bring in a Vet. I am sort of leaning towards Jets QB Mike White. It would hurt the Jets and that dude played fairly well. Much better than Turdy Bilgewater IMO.

Mike White??? Ugh...please no. Waste of a roster spot IMO. I'd much rather develop Thompson than waste time with a dead-end veteran like White.

The Phins have apparently told Tua that they will pick up his 5th year option for next season. No surprise, but still good to hear.

Too bad this won't stop the mediots from talking about the Phins going after Rodgers, Lamar, Brady, etc.

JMP wrote:The Phins have apparently told Tua that they will pick up his 5th year option for next season.  No surprise, but still good to hear.  

Too bad this won't stop the mediots from talking about the Phins going after Rodgers, Lamar, Brady, etc.  

I thought Rodgers had already signed with the Jets, the way the media was yammering on about it

Things have officially reached the point where if those people insist something's going to happen, that's a guarantee that it won't. IDK how anybody who actually believes anything the MSM says about...well, anything can even be capable of dressing and feeding themselves.

I actually think Rodgers to the Jets is all but done. Creepy how closely he followed the Favre end of career arc.

With picking up the Tua 5th year option, it actually COULD allow space and time for a different veteran QB this season. Not that I think that will happen at all. Just saying

I keep hearing that Rodgers is leaning toward retiring, but we should find out if he's a Jet or not by Sunday night at the latest.

I personally think Rodgers is a terrible fit for the Jets and think it will be the final nail in the coffin for their GM and head coach.

Rodgers probably should retire. It is eerie how closely his career followed Favre's. Both always had the team in the thick of the playoff race for a decade and a half, both won a Super Bowl, and both missed excellent opportunities to add a championship or two. But bottom line, I'd take either. Too bad we didn't grab him in 2005 but we weren't alone in that, and he likely benefitted from sitting behind Favre for 3 full years instead of being rushed into the lineup.

That said, if he's on the Jets, he does make them a playoff threat even at 40. Hey, Favre did get the Jests to 9-7 in '08 and still had one deep playoff run in him the next year. So obviously I hope he retires.

The Jets have a lot of work to do before they are a legit contender IMO. Right now they have 1 WR, 1 RB (coming off a torn ACL), no #1 TE, and a weak OL. Their D was very good this season, but they also faced a ton of backup QBs which IMO made them look better than they are.

Rodgers helps, but he's declining and they'll have to add a ton of pieces around him - and hope that he decides he's willing to put in extra work with young players, something he wanted no part of in Green Bay.