From 5-1 To 5-4, Calling It Now!!!

Shades of '02, only this time instead of doing it with the backup QB they'll do it with the starter who was SUPPOSED to finally be a top 5 QB, just to twist the knife into the salt-covered wound even more!

Looks like I'll be finding something else to do on Sundays. Again. Even the wins (if there are any more) will be totally meaningless and only cause the draft position to drop, as usual.

If we lose to the Pats, 5-4 is the reality. No question about it.

Nah we're whipping Billy Boy Sunday.

HalCHorn wrote:Nah we're whipping Billy Boy Sunday.

I sure hope so. But if the Pats play like they did against the Bills, it's going to be very, very difficult for us to get a win. That defense destroyed the Bills' OL. Unless we get Williams and Wynn back, it could be ugly.

I believe I have mentioned it a few times I think: When it comes to the 2023 Phins, LOWER YOUR EXPECTATIONS!!

The Phins are a finesse team with a finesse offense and a defense that plays ZONE primarily.

Offense - Finesse and speed will work but if you can't protect the point of attack...the whole offense becomes disjointed. McD has yet to realize, implement, scheme, or devise an offense that will function like he wants when the opponent does not have to worry about the Phins running game. The whole offense is based on teams having to worry about the rushing attack and decide whether to stop the medium and long passing game, or the run. Teams that can crush the Phins running game by Beyotch-slapping the Phins Oline need only worry about keeping Ty Hill in check. This problem is only exacerbated by McD's failure to call any running plays when it is obvious the Defense is kicking the Phins Oline's arse so badly children and women should not watch and even weak men need to avert their eyes!

Speaking of the Oline - Everything is great and wonderful when the Phins are playing bad teams with a weak DLine, and we should all praise Grier for his wonderful assemblage of record-setting offense and cheap Oline. Uh huh! Except, unless, until... I mean... If they fail when they get punched in the mouth, just how good is the Oline? The Oline IS a problem and always will be when the Phins play a big, bad Defense that does not bite on the motion and just beats the Phins Olinemen bad enough to make them question their manhoods! I know Grier has not had full drafts the last few years, but I am yet to understand how he or anyone else thought the Oline was not in need of a significant upgrade and worth a higher round pick or two if for no other reason than developmental purposes! Of course when EIchenberg is the example of that, maybe we all Understand why he is hesitant to use a higher draft pick on an Olineman!!

As I said back in the off season - My fear was the Phins Oline was going to be the downfall of ANOTHER Phins season. Two road beatdowns by big mean nasty defenses of teams with winning records certainly seems to indicate my fear is being realized?!?!?

Defense - This is a finesse defense that cannot overpower a team's Oline unless the Oline is terrible. There is not one dominant D-lineman on the team. Nobody the Offense has to scheme to stop. No DE who strikes fear into the hearts of Olinemen. No LB who can wreck the opposing team's gameplan if he is not accounted for. No CB who is a dreaded lockdown cover corner. The Phins have some good pieces on Defense, but this Defense will get beaten by good QBs who can improvise, or who have excellent Olines that can give them enough time to find the open receiver, because with no pressure, or by scrambling just enough, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE AN OPEN RECEIVER!

A J Brown never got covered all night until he went to bed and got under a sheet I am thinking!!! Poor old Kohou. I hope he has a short memory cause that was bad. AJ Brown has been beating the eyes out of everyone, so... (Note: Whoever traded AJ Brown from the Titans should beat to near death with that oh-so-feared Wiffle Ball bat!!!)

The point though: This Fangio Defense is playing to not give up the big play; keep everything in front of you; make them go the distance to score; the longer it takes, the more good things will happen for us and we can make a play.

This will work IF:
ONE - You can get legitimate pressure on the QB. And by this I mean, make the QB have to move or do something with the ball before he is ready!
TWO - You can contain the QB and stop him from improvising like Josh Allen or Jalen Hurts.
THREE - The DBs can cover for the 2 to 3 seconds it takes to make the QB have to get rid of the ball.

When one and two fail, the whole defense starts to look bad.

But, nowhere is this defense looking to lay some lumber on the opposing team's offense. Read your gaps and stop the run. Push in and stay in your lane and get to the QB. Play your zone, your quarter, your half... of the field and don't let them complete one over your head. Nowhere in that is the focus on slobberknocking anyone.

This is not the most physical defense in the NFL.

All the problems you expect with a FINESSE team are on display when they play big, mean, nasty, more physical teams. Going for it on 4th from the 26 yard line??? They might as well have spit in the defenses's face and told them to hand in their man-cards!

The Eagles were the more physical team. They knew it. The Phins knew it. Everybody that watched, knew it.

I do not see any easy fixes for it either. Unless McD wants to start implementing some man on man straight ahead power Oline blocking, which most of the Phins OLinemen are not suited for IMO, big mean nasty Dlines are going to continue to eat the seals/zone blocks of the Phins for breakfast and snacks!

Same for the D-line: There ain't no fixing this. What they got is what they got. The Phins players are giving good effort, but they couldn't stop the Eagles tush push play even when they knew it was coing. The Defense is not designed for that.

No, what we have to hope is that the Phins, offense and defense, will play much better at home than on the road when they face teams with better Olines and Dlines. That better finesse execution will overcome the bigger, meaner, nastier lines they are facing.

Not much to hope for there, but who knows?

Just beating the bad teams and MAYBE winning the home games versus the big brutish teams should get the Phins to the playoffs, but nobody needs to start thinking Super Bowl from this Phins team IMO. At some point, a team needs to OVERPOWER the other team not just out finesse them. Right now, all the Phins have is FINESSE IMO.

I certainly agree about lowering expectations. I got hoodwinked again.

But I will say this: the OL sure as hell seemed physical while rolling up all those rushing yards throughout the season. You don't lead the league in rushing without a physical OL. Last night's problems with the OL were really about Eichenberg and Cotton. If we had Williams and Wynn in there, I suspect the Eagles' DL would not have looked so dominant. Unfortunately, like every team in the NFL, our OL depth SUCKS.

On defense, I think the lack of physicality stems from weakness at the CB position. We are forced to play this "huge cushion on the outside receivers" crap because we don't have good corners. Eli Apple and Kader Kohou are not starting-caliber boundary corners, at all. X has been playing hurt for a few games and was out last night. We have to use the big cushion to try to stop big plays. But of course, as we learned last year, that scheme also makes it super-easy for the QB to complete quick, short passes and easily convert first downs. Now, if Ramsey comes back soon and X gets healthy, we can afford to be more aggressive and physical on D. But unless and until that happens, I think Fangio will continue to play conservative on the back-end because of weak CBs.

That said, this D is certainly physical upfront, getting lots of pressure and sacks. It just looks worse because the QB has too many easy outs even when getting pressured.

Cotton looked like a guy making his second NFL start surrounded by backups playing an above average DL. That said, I think he's a quality backup under reasonably normal circumstances.

JMP wrote:I certainly agree about lowering expectations.  I got hoodwinked again.

Boy did you ever! You even had ME, the Potentate Of Pessimism, actually kinda sorta convinced things would be different than usual! The ONLY thing worthwhile about yet another upcoming Fins flop is you finally seeing the darkness...um, the light.

On defense, I think the lack of physicality stems from weakness at the CB position. We are forced to play this "huge cushion on the outside receivers" crap because we don't have good corners.

If only Grier would spend high draft picks on a CB...oh wait.

Grier's inability to draft CBs and O-linemen are ultimately the root of the entire problem. If Iggy, Cam Smith, Eich and Jackson had actually worked out we're talking about a significantly better team.

Well, Jackson has worked out - for almost half a season (so far), anyway. Just enough to price himself out of Miami in free agency.

As for Cam Smith, I assume he is nowhere near ready if we keep putting Kohou on the opponents' top receiver week after week. Colossal disappointment that the rookie can't get on the field over Kohou and Apple. Too soon to label him a bust, but he is certainly heading in that direction if he can't earn playing time in this crappy secondary.

JMP wrote:Well, Jackson has worked out - for almost half a season (so far), anyway.  Just enough to price himself out of Miami in free agency.

As for Cam Smith, I assume he is nowhere near ready if we keep putting Kohou on the opponents' top receiver week after week. Colossal disappointment that the rookie can't get on the field over Kohou and Apple. Too soon to label him a bust, but he is certainly heading in that direction if he can't earn playing time in this crappy secondary.

As usual the Fins draft rule of thumb is, if I hate the pick it's going to be a bust. And I hated the Cam Smith pick (and the Iggy pick too).

JMP wrote:As for Cam Smith, I assume he is nowhere near ready if we keep putting Kohou on the opponents' top receiver week after week. Colossal disappointment that the rookie can't get on the field over Kohou and Apple. Too soon to label him a bust, but he is certainly heading in that direction if he can't earn playing time in this crappy secondary.

i agree. the lack of being able to find a way to give Smith some somewhat meaningful defensive snaps is very concerning. at this point both Bethel and Nickerson are seeing the field ahead of the 2nd rounder. granted those guys are seeing time in the slot, but if Smith showed any inkling of being able to play, why wouldn't they at least put him on the boundary in nickel or dime with Kohou moving into the slot?

what's the old saying (was it JJ or Bill Parcels) about if the puppy don't bite, then it sure ain't gonna when its a dog.

After the loss to the Eagles on Sunday Night Football, Dolphins head coach Mike McDaniel was asked about the decision to keep Smith off of the field on defense.

“It’s just the natural growth (for a young player),” McDaniel said. “There are many different journeys that players take. He’s got a room of very capable players (around him). I think you have to do right by the team, and you have to do right by the player to make sure that they’re appropriately versed. The main thing with him is that he’s, by all testaments, he’s getting better and better and closer and closer to doing that, but you don’t just have guys learn on the fly at a position like that, in my opinion. Because, it’s kind of like quarterback, where you don’t want to hurt their progression by having them see the field too soon because there can be scar tissue with that.

“I really like the way that Cam goes about his business, and how he competes. He’ll see his time on the field at some point, but tonight was just not the night.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/dolphins-mike-mcdaniel-explains-why-110043634.html

sounds very much like the load of crap used to explain away why Iggy never saw the field.

pretty sure guys like Troy Vincent, Sam Madison, Pat Surtain, X Howard, etc., etc., saw significant contributing time as rookies - not to mention several fellow rookie CBs from this most recent draft already seeing the field.

Yeah, I just posted on this in another thread.

I guess we know why Smith started out as a hot mid 1st rounder and dropped. His film at SC made him look great, but...

There has to be some reason he is not on the field and I am thinking it is all mental.

With Howard and Ramsay both out, your second round CB should be able to contribute and play by the 7th game, regardless of system. Bottom line.

If only Grier would spend high draft picks on a CB...oh wait.

Grier's inability to draft CBs and O-linemen are ultimately the root of the entire problem. If Iggy, Cam Smith, Eich and Jackson had actually worked out we're talking about a significantly better team.

This is the haunting possibility we have to face.

Even with McDaniel running the proven Shanahan system and a vastly improved defensive coaching staff.... if we keep missing so badly on drafting the right talent, none of this is going to work beyond a wild card berth as our high water mark.

Eich and Iggy are great examples, but let's not overlook the OTHER busts like Dieter, etc. And I still don't know about Jackson, he didn't play well this week either.

You'll have to imagine this is me screaming, "GRIIIIEEEERRR!!!"

I actually step outside and do this every day BTW. Good thing the only neighboring house is at least 50 yards away and they're at work. But it makes their dogs bark like crazy.

Smith is too handsy with receivers and will be called for Multiple Penalties in any game he plays in, His SC tape shows it alot. Fangio even mentioned it during training game that this needed to be fix before they would trust him. Jones will not play Two Good Games in a row and we are at Home expect a 17-21 Point Beatdown. Robert Jones needs to Play LG this Week.

I know... I was seriously hoping Cam Smith was going to be really good, but....

When you look at the opportunity costs involved in selecting Smith and bypassing the players Grier did, the overall cost is almost tragic.

A friend and I ran through this after the draft, and in the light of how invisible Cam Smith has been, it looms even larger as an example of how shiite drafting affects a team IMHO.

At # 51 in the 2023 draft, if the Phins had:
ONE -Drafted CB Tyrique Stevenson - Stevenson is playing for the Bears and has them thinking of maybe letting some veteran DBs go I have heard. No doubt, Stevenson would be starting for Miami.

TWO - Drafted CB DJ Turner. -m AT least a CB who can get on the field.

THREE - Drafted DT Gervon Dexter - A solid DT with some shiftiness who is providing valuable backup DT play for the Bears and could develop into a (special) starting DT.

FOUR - Drafted Guard O'Cyress Torrence - He's had some learning curves for sure in the NFL, but PFF has him rated at 58.7 playing 465 snaps, with 4 penalties and one sack allowed. One NFL talking head said Torrence has shown the most improvement from day one until now of any Olineman he has seen.

FIVE - Drafted Center John Michael Schmitz - Was starting for the Giants until an injury.

These are just some examples, but look at it in this view:

One - Tyrique would have been a starter IMO. Especially after Ramsey went down. This would have allowed Kader Kohou to continue his strong slot coverage instead of having to move outside. Long term: Maybe if Tyrique is the real deal, you can let X and his big cap hit go?

Two - Just having a rookie who provides SOEM HELP beats Smith, and Turner may develop into a speedy DB coverage corner.

Three - Dexter has all the tools to be a disruptive factor for the defense IMO. His use as a backup DT this season would sure have beaten Smith's contributions which have been ZERO so far.

Four - The LG position would have been SOLVED by this one draft pick. Ultimately, it would have solidified a position that has been weakness for the Phins for years to come. Just like it has done for the Bills when they drafted Torrence. Wynn was playing well before the injury no doubt.

Five - Having a strong Center is vital to the McD offense as we have seen. Leakin' Eichenberg ain't it! Schmitz would have allowed Williams to man the LG spot and this one draft pick would have fixed TWO OLine positions!

As I have said many times before, the entire costs of missing on a draft pick is not just what you do or do not get from the bad pick, but the missed opportunity from who you didn't pick. And just like with Iggy, when you keep hoping and dreaming that the pick is going to work out, so you continue down this hoping and dreaming (fairy tale) path all the while the bad pick is taking up a roster spot and taking up coaching time and pratice and ultimately... you have wasted much more than a 2nd round pick for the organization IMO.

I ain't ready to call Smith a bust just yet, but it certainly is not looking good.

I hope you are right, Kev. I think the Fangio D will hold down the Pats scoring. I am wondering what the McD offense is going to look like versus the Pats D that made Josh Allen look bad. Allen made some terrible reads in that game!

Hindsight is 20-20, but aside from Stevenson and Torrence I'm not sure any of the guys you mentioned would have been any better than Smith.

I'm a Canes fan, and I had my doubts about Tyrique Stevenson in round 2. Smith was a better prospect. Stevenson looks pretty good so far, but I can't fault the Phins for taking Smith over him - I doubt anyone had Stevenson as the higher-ranked player.

I'm not sure what happened with O'Cyrus Torrence during the draft, but he went from a sure-fire top 25 pick to getting drafted at 59. Sure, he would have been a good pick, but the Phins aren't the only team that passed on him.

DJ Turner is a 5'9" corner that really hasn't done anything of note. Sure, he plays - but he's not very good. I doubt he'd see the field in Miami, and we'd be killing Grier for drafting him.

Likewise, Gervon Dexter hasn't done anything. Another pick that would be sitting on the bench and we'd be killing Grier for. He should have been a 4th round pick.

Schmitz is about to miss his 4th consecutive game with injury. Don't we have enough injured OL? I can just imagine this board if Grier used a 2nd round pick on an injured lineman!

Who was pissed at Grier passing up Torrence? Who was taking Stevenson in some mock drafts?

Me, that's who.

(Drops mic.)

DolFan 316 wrote:Who was pissed at Grier passing up Torrence? Who was taking Stevenson in some mock drafts?

Me, that's who.

(Drops mic.)

I definitely wanted Torrence as he started to slip. If I remember correctly, there was some sort of rumor about why he fell but I don't recall what it was now. Something clearly happened that scared teams away. That was a huge drop for him...at least 40 spots depending on which mocks you looked at.

I had Stevenson on my radar too, but more as a 3rd or even 4th rounder. Like I said, I don't think I saw any of the draft sites list him above Smith.

Doesn't really matter now - just have to hope Smith develops.

Needed some time to stew after that game.
Yes I noticed things that need adjusting also.
*I'm tired of deferring the opening kickoff only to see the other team go down and score.
*I love the offense but every play does not have to be a HR. Start using the middle of the field with a TE or Ingold.
*Ahmed is a backup. Stop trying to force it.
*We need the D to get healthy and play. Fangio is an old man who might be on the move. We don't need an intense complicated scheme that is hard to learn. We need to shut them down now.
OL needs to man the F up and play.
None of us want to see Tua get hurt but he needs to add a few runs in there like the other QBs are doing.

The next F'n team that tries a fake punt, gunner running across the field to block a K, or some BS QB push up the field. The next time you F'n punish them. Take the 15 unsportsmanlike and F'n pound them into the dirt. Grab the OL and throw them down and stomp on them. Chop the legs of the WR/TE doing the crazy move. Jump over the pile and take the QB's head off. Run out of bounds and pummel the head coach. F em. I never want to see a HC smurcking on the sidelines after a BS play or loss.

Cam Smith is now in a walking boot.