Just Now Thought Of This

Could it be that this game was the manifestation of that threatened player revolt if Tunsil was traded?

Could it be that, after the trade, with the team already in a foul mood, all these superfluous and seemingly nonsensical roster moves of last week put the players over the edge?

SOMETHING made them lay down today. Even the worst of the worst NFL teams don't lose by almost 50 on a regular basis. This was no accident or mere result of 'lack of talent". Otherwise the '07 team would've been blown out like this every other game instead of their largest defeat being by 27 points, and losing six times by exactly 3.

I'll tell you one thing, I saw a TON of players that had given up after the first quarter.

If Flores somehow has managed to lose the locker room far more quickly and thoroughly than even Cam he has to be fired by the end of this season, doesn't he? DOESN'T HE?!?!

I think him losing the locker room with this crew is kind of a meaningless thing. We're looking at a room that is by and large filled with JAGs and losers.

He needs about a dozen guys on this squad to really buy into the future, like JJ did in Dallas when he took over. The rest of them can all go pound sand. We'll see what happens though, because if it goes completely sideways, then he might be Cam-marooned out of here. I think he's actually going to be a good coach, and changing from a bunch of whiny no-to-low talent babies to winners brings a lot of tantrums and crying.

Degarmo wrote:I think him losing the locker room with this crew is kind of a meaningless thing.  We're looking at a room that is by and large filled with JAGs and losers.

He needs about a dozen guys on this squad to really buy into the future, like JJ did in Dallas when he took over.  The rest of them can all go pound sand.  We'll see what happens though, because if it goes completely sideways, then he might be Cam-marooned out of here.  I think he's actually going to be a good coach, and changing from a bunch of whiny no-to-low talent babies to winners brings a lot of tantrums and crying.

In a couple of weeks he may only HAVE a dozen guys, though. That's the problem.

You want to tank, fine. But don't be shocked if the players don't buy in, especially if you know ANYTHING about how millennials are these days. That was the big mistake. Flores and Grier actually thought they'd be unfazed by the ridiculous roster moves last week! I'm STILL gobsmacked by that. We're talking about a generation that treats a stubbed toe like a cancer diagnosis.

Taking the generational point fully, what if we end up with something like this (noting how awful the first games were):

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/tam/1996.htm

Coach looked like a horrible hire for half of that season, with the potential to be historically embarrassing after five games.  But....by year's end (and granted, with a rebuild that was a bit further along), guys were buying in and playing well.  Coach ended up doing pretty well too; better than the big splash hire the Dolphins made the same year.

If the Fins are looking better by year's end and playing competitively despite the lack of current talent, we're on the right track.  So, I'll wait and see.

HalCHorn wrote:Taking the generational point fully, what if we end up with something like this (noting how awful the first games were):

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/tam/1996.htm

Coach looked like a horrible hire for half of that season, with the potential to be historically embarrassing after five games.  But....by year's end (and granted, with a rebuild that was a bit further along), guys were buying in and playing well.  Coach ended up doing pretty well too; better than the big splash hire the Dolphins made the same year.

If the Fins are looking better by year's end and playing competitively despite the lack of current talent, we're on the right track.  So, I'll wait and see.

That bye after the 5th game seems to have helped significantly. Got their first win right after and even in the 3 losses after that they competed far better before winning 3 straight.

But I still don't see anything like that happening with these guys. Not even close. Also, it must be noted that it took 3 losses for the Bucs to get outscored by 50, not one. There are levels to badness.

Flores lost the locker room after he traded Tunsil and Stills. Cant get rid of leaders then expect people to be happy about especially when they were good leaders. leadership has to be won and Flores has definitely lost it

rightchea wrote:Flores lost the locker room after he traded Tunsil and Stills. Cant get rid of leaders then expect people to be happy about especially when they were good leaders. leadership has to be won and Flores has definitely lost it

Even if that's true (and it might be considering the threatened revolt) if anyone here says they would turn down two firsts and a second for a kinda above average LT and a head case WR, they are lying their ass off. The Texans literally gave Grier an offer he couldn't refuse. he wouldn't be fit to be a GM if he didn't take that trade.

But to follow that up with suddenly cutting a quarter of the roster the week before the opener for no reason just to replace them with scrubs and nobodies? That's beyond being tone-deaf. The absolute height of idiocy to do that IMO.

rightchea wrote:Flores lost the locker room after he traded Tunsil and Stills. Cant get rid of leaders then expect people to be happy about especially when they were good leaders. leadership has to be won and Flores has definitely lost it

And that was the biggest issue with the 'old' Dolphins, in a nutshell: the leaders on the team included a dumbass lineman who allowed himself to be filmed while using a gasmask bong, and a mediocre WR who is more concerned about pissing on America than playing football. THAT was the problem. Our "leaders" were losers.

Flores hasn't lost anything. It's one game. This is when we find out what he's really made of, and we see who the real leaders are on this team. Adversity either makes people stronger, or it makes them curl up and die. Let's see how this team responds.

Let me ask you this...do you think Mike Tomlin has lost his team because they got absolutely embarrassed on national TV last night??? It's one game.

Oh no, Mike Tomlin hasn't seen a good team in years. He a good coach with bad decision making when it comes to getting his coaching staff together since last year. There is a total difference in losing your team and not making the right move to win games.

Miami players displayed a lack of want in the game. Poor tackling, poor coverage, poor blocking and everything else you could imagine. There is too many times that Miami just gave up.

Also ya'll must have forgotten the type of leaders America has had. George Bush was a crack head, Clinton committed adultery, Richard Nixon water gate scandal, etc. There are so many leaders that do stupid things that doesn't make sense but it happens Tunsil might have done the video of smoking weed and got it posted during his draft but at the same time he is way better than what we saw yesterday. but it just one game might turn into more than that.

rightchea wrote:Oh no, Mike Tomlin hasn't seen a good team in years. He a good coach with bad decision making when it comes to getting his coaching staff together since last year. There is a total difference in losing your team and not making the right move to win games.

Miami players displayed a lack of want in the game. Poor tackling, poor coverage, poor blocking and everything else you could imagine. There is too many times that Miami just gave up.

My point about Tomlin is that his team got thoroughly embarrassed on national TV, not much different than what happened to Flores (though thankfully it wasn't nationally televised!) And Tomlin is coaching a team that actually has playoff hopes, and many people predicted them to win their division. Bottom line - it happens, teams have bad games, and life goes on.

As for Miami players, did they give up - or were they just bad? Hard to say watching on TV, but I personally didn't see anyone giving up...they were just in over their heads and outmatched. Scot talked about Wilkins standing around at some point, and that is concerning, but I didn't notice anything and I don't know exactly what happened on that play.

I think Flores has to have some sort of wink wink/ agreement/understanding that he will be allowed to fulfill his contract terms( 5 years?). He was told what was going to happen and understood that this will be a 2-4 year rebuild project. At least that is what I think.

scotgif wrote:I think Flores has to have some sort of wink wink/ agreement/understanding that he will be allowed to fulfill his contract terms( 5 years?). He was told what was going to happen and understood that this will be a 2-4 year rebuild project. At least that is what I think.

Yeah I agree.  He's really got nothing to work with and that has to be understood.

As bad as the D was, I do believe things will settle down.  This scheme really puts a lot of responsibility on the players to learn multiple roles and play multiple positions.  It's not easy for a player that has always played one position one way to suddenly have a lot more added to his plate and do things differently. It's a huge transition for some of these players, many of whom are also dealing with being in the NFL for the first time. It will take time, and it will be ugly - but I'm willing to let the process play out and see how (or if) things progress.

scotgif wrote:I think Flores has to have some sort of wink wink/ agreement/understanding that he will be allowed to fulfill his contract terms( 5 years?). He was told what was going to happen and understood that this will be a 2-4 year rebuild project. At least that is what I think.

I definitely think that is it as well. There no way that someone doesn't understand especially with the move that have been happening this off-season

You cannot seriously rebuild a team with a dearth of talent like the Dolphins without a complete shit show of a first season. The only way to do it is to burn it down. I believe when it's looked at historically, the Tunsil trade will be the Herschel Walker trade of the modern era for the Dolphins. Sure it's not 120 picks like JJ got, but you don't see players getting traded for that much value. There's no way in hell Tunsil has the same value as what they got back. Used correctly, they can put down a foundation for a great team. It's up to them now.

that the problem right there. since Zac Thomas and Jason Taylor who has Miami really drafted that you could say was good. Even Brown was an okay draft pick at RB but he wasn't great. Every time Miami has drafted someone they have been average at best. Tedd Ginn Jr is okay now but wasnt first round material. Parker hasnt shown he could stay healthy. Miami got lucky with Howard, and he not that great either. I mean no one from the 2015 draft is still around. how is that even possible. there no way a team can draft that bad every year. the scout department only looking at YouTube highlights.

Since Jimmy, we've had too many GM's who didn't value draft picks. Wannstedt made George Allen look like Jimmy on draft day. Saban should have known the college game better than anyone around in 2005-2006, but just look at the guys he passed on from his own team that he should have known were NFL material: Whitworth, Spears, Webster, Williams...

The less said about Camueller the better. Parcells passed on two good first round QB's to make the safe pick, Ireland was very hit and miss, Hickey actually made some astute picks in his two years, but ended up getting players that Gase didn't want--a common problem with all the half-measures this team took for two decades.

If Flores and Grier are on the same page, we have a real chance to change this. Won't be able to tell for a couple of years, but like Degarmo said, the potential is here to lay the foundation of a great team.

rightchea wrote:that the problem right there. since Zac Thomas and Jason Taylor who has Miami really drafted that you could say was good. Even Brown was an okay draft pick at RB but he wasn't great. Every time Miami has drafted someone they have been average at best. Tedd Ginn Jr is okay now but wasnt first round material. Parker hasnt shown he could stay healthy. Miami got lucky with Howard, and he not that great either. I mean no one from the 2015 draft is still around. how is that even possible. there no way a team can draft that bad every year. the scout department only looking at YouTube highlights.

Yes, that is the key to this entire plan: good drafting. If we don't draft well, it's all over and we'll be looking for a new GM and coach before you know it. I do have trust in the group of Grier/Allen/McKenzie, with input from Flores. That's a strong group and it seems they know what they want. All we can do is hope they get it right!

HalCHorn wrote:

If Flores and Grier are on the same page, we have a real chance to change this.   Won't be able to tell for a couple of years, but like Degarmo said, the potential is here to lay the foundation of a great team.

This is probably going to be key for next year especially since Grier wanted Flores to be in Miami. I feel like the both of them will work well together and make sure that off-season moves will be between them two and the rest of the coaching staff. As long as our oh so stupid owner don't try to add his two cents

Good drafting is a great deodorant!

A whole raft of evil, noxious fumes coming from the Miami Dolphin's orifices will be cleansed given just ONE GREAT DRAFT!!

What we have to hope for is:
A) there is a pile of first rounders worthy of going in the top five. Saban tried like heck to trade down from #2 the year he took Ronnie Brown. There was nobody wanted to trade up.
B) Grier really does know what he is doing.
C) Grier and Flores are on the same page, heck, I hope they are on the same sentence and the same word!!

We have to just hope we see the coaching start to make a difference with these developmental players this year. If they are playing MUCH BETTER towards the end of the season, even if they are still losing, we will know the team is on the right track.