Trade up or trade down that is the question

maybe we are speculating this is the wrong way as well. Tua will probably get a huge amount of money from his insurance plan if he falls. If he goes back to Bama and gets hurt again, maybe even career-ending there goes his insurance plan and money he could be making from it. If I knew that risk I hop in the draft take the risk of falling and get the insurance money from it instead of risking going back to college and getting hurt again while not getting paid.

Well, if he checks out and Grier and company think he is gonna be franchise, I would have no problem with them taking him at #5. The whole hip injury and the often injured thing are FACTS. Which would make me hesitant to spend too much draft capital on him.

Can't fault his talent or his heart, but the dude got beat to heck in the SEC, and the NFL is at least two times rougher than the SEC. Okay, maybe one and half times as rough!!!

I agree with DF316 on the old line "The best ability is availability." A generational talent that keeps getting nicked, dinged, and misses time due to injury, and might be one bad hit away from another hip injury is not gonna be the "franchise" answer at QB the Phins need IMO.

It is a tough situation for sure, but when healthy, I think Tua could be a very good QB in the NFL. Just how Very good though, I do not know.

finfanatic wrote:Well, if he checks out and Grier and company think he is gonna be franchise, I would have no problem with them taking him at #5. The whole hip injury and the often injured thing are FACTS. Which would make me hesitant to spend too much draft capital on him.

I'd call the ankle injuries overblown. Since he had the tightrope surgery on both ankles, high ankle sprains will no longer be an issue (according to what I've read about that procedure). So really it's the hip injury that is the concern - all the other stuff is a non-issue. Of course it is a big concern - but all available info points to Tua being on schedule with the hip...so far, so good. Hopefully by the time the draft rolls around he will still be on or ahead of schedule...we'll see. At that point, it will be up to the Dolphins medical staff to gather as much info as they can and advise the team accordingly.

As far as draft capital, we have tons of it and can afford to move up 2-3 spots and still have a bunch of picks to build the roster. Grier has done everything in his power to give the Dolphins flexibility during the draft to do what they need to do.

finfanatic wrote:I agree with DF316 on the old line "The best ability is availability." A generational talent that keeps getting nicked, dinged, and misses time due to injury, and might be one bad hit away from another hip injury is not gonna be the "franchise" answer at QB the Phins need IMO.

It is a tough situation for sure, but when healthy, I think Tua could be a very good QB in the NFL. Just how Very good though, I do not know.

Tua didn't miss significant time till the hip...it's not like this is a guy that was always missing games. He started every game in 2018.

No one knows how any college QB will do in the NFL. But, Tua set the record for highest passer rating in a season in 2018, and then promptly broke that record in his shortened 2019 season. Burrow finished 2 points behind Tua this year, and no one else was even within 10 points. Tua is a MONSTER QB, and if there's any possibility that he'll be back to 100% the Dolphins should be all in.

I have to agree with JMP. Tua hasn't been that injured until now. so the idea of him being injury prone is not totally true.

DolFan 316 wrote:Bleh. Meh. Feh.

Trading up for a known injury-prone player is the dumbest move possible. If the Fins are trading up anyway, why not go for Burrow? Surely the asking price for him wouldn't be THAT much more than moving up to #2.

Otherwise they need all the first round picks they can get. QB isn't the only hole on this team, you know.

I would be shocked if Tua was a top 10 QB or even in the league in 5 years.

I agree too. I have nothing against Tua and would be happy yet nervous if he is a Fin, but being injury prone like he has been scares me.

rightchea wrote:I feel like Miami could get him at 5. Everyone is saying he has a Bo Jackson type injury and even with the technology hip injures are probably the worst type of injury you can have.

I was listening to a podcast this past week and they said just this. According to whoever I was listening to, the big difference is they got Tua to the hospital and every thing back in place immediately which allowed the blood flow through the hip to get going quickly.  Whereas with Bo this didn't happen.

Killah Sith wrote:I was listening to a podcast this past week and they said just this. According to whoever I was listening to, the big difference is they got Tua to the hospital and every thing back in place immediately which allowed the blood flow through the hip to get going quickly.  Whereas with Bo this didn't happen.

That darn primitive early '90s medical care, amirite? No wonder it was so much less expensive.

If I'm going to be stuck with Tua he damn well better be more Mahomes than Jackson.

DolFan 316 wrote:If I'm going to be stuck with Tua he damn well better be more Mahomes than Jackson.

Tua was never a running QB, even before the hip injury, so he's not like Jackson - Tua is 100% a QB. Really, Tua is more like Brees than either one...much more pocket passer than Mahomes is.

I rather have a QB that is willing to run if they are not able to make a play wit their hands. Josh Allen and Russell Wilson even John Elway ran every once in a while. pocket passing is good and all but you need to have someone who can make the play if no one is open or the pocket collapse.

I read a rumor (somewhere, cant recall cant find a link) that the hiring of Gailey can be interpreted as a signal the Fins are looking hard at Jordan Love.

Apparently the spread offense early architecture on Gailey's resume matches well with Love's skill set. Hmmm...

rightchea wrote:I rather have a QB that is willing to run if they are not able to make a play wit their hands. Josh Allen and Russell Wilson even John Elway ran every once in a while. pocket passing is good and all but you need to have someone who can make the play if no one is open or the pocket collapse.

Sure, it's great to have a QB that can run if needed - but you don't need that to win. Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Peyton Manning did just fine as pure pocket passers.

white1 wrote:I read a rumor (somewhere, cant recall cant find a link) that the hiring of Gailey can be interpreted as a signal the Fins are looking hard at Jordan Love.  

Apparently the spread offense early architecture on Gailey's resume matches well with Love's skill set.  Hmmm...

Most college teams run some variety of spread offense. I do think Love is a good fit - as are Burrow, Tua and Herbert. You could also make the case that Jalen Hurts is similar to Kordell Stewart..and Gailey had great success coaching Stewart. (Not saying I want Hurts...just saying he is a QB that Gailey can work with IMO.)

The good news: Gailey's strength is that he's adaptable - he's not just a one-stye type of coach. So I think he can coach a variety of different style QBs.

JMP wrote:

rightchea wrote:I rather have a QB that is willing to run if they are not able to make a play wit their hands. Josh Allen and Russell Wilson even John Elway ran every once in a while. pocket passing is good and all but you need to have someone who can make the play if no one is open or the pocket collapse.

Sure, it's great to have a QB that can run if needed - but you don't need that to win.  Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Peyton Manning did just fine as pure pocket passers.

Definitely agree with that.

White1 wrote:I read a rumor (somewhere, cant recall cant find a link) that the hiring of Gailey can be interpreted as a signal the Fins are looking hard at Jordan Love.

Apparently the spread offense early architecture on Gailey's resume matches well with Love's skill set. Hmmm...

I would burn all of my Fins items and become a Browns fan.

rightchea wrote:I would burn all of my Fins items and become a Browns fan.

LMAO!!! I wouldn't go *that* far, but if Grier actually does something that stupid I would seriously have to reassess my fanhood and my life in general. It's either this team or no team for me, though.

Jordan Love could be the #3 or 4 QB in this class when all is said and done. I think some people are going to be surprised at where he is selected. Personally, I'm not sure he makes it passed 15.

I wouldn't be surprised if Miami skip at getting a QB at 5 and get a QB later in the draft. I see Miami going after Love at 27 or Hurts in the 2nd round

rightchea wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Miami skip at getting a QB at 5 and get a QB later in the draft. I see Miami going after Love at 27 or Hurts in the 2nd round

It will be really interesting to see where all the QBs go. There are so many QB-needy teams picking in the top 15...I think some of the QBs will go higher than people expect as a result.

I think the Dolphins end up picking somewhere between 2 and 5 and walk away with either Tua or Herbert.

With the Bengals at 1 and the Lions at 3 Miami will have to give up the universe to get either Tua or Burrow. best bet is Miami trade down go after some more rookies that can fill up some holes and get a QB in the later rounds and/or next year. Several college players are staying back next year and I see Miami getting another opportunity of going after a QB.

rightchea wrote:With the Bengals at 1 and the Lions at 3 Miami will have to give up the universe to get either Tua or Burrow. best bet is Miami trade down go after some more rookies that can fill up some holes and get a QB in the later rounds and/or next year. Several college players are staying back next year and I see Miami getting another opportunity of going after a QB.

Miami can't afford to wait till 2021 for a QB. You never know what can happen with the 2021 draft. You have to strike while you can. We have a chance to get a top QB this year...why pass that up and hope everything works out a year later?

I don't think the cost to move up to 2 or 3 will be prohibitive, because we are only moving up a few spots. That #5 pick is very valuable, and we have tons of ammo to sweeten the deal without hurting the rest of the draft. And no other team can offer what the Phins can.

If I'm Miami, I'm trying to move up to 2 or 3. But I don't think the Skins will trade out of the 2 spot...my guess is they will stay at 2 and take Chase Young. I do think the Lions will be open for business at #3. They can't really afford to draft Tua, because they are in "win now" mode. Another losing season, and Matt Patricia could be gone. He doesn't need a rookie QB that may not play the entire 2020 season, if at all. They can trade down to 5 and still get a player that has immediate impact, like Simmons.

Regardless, Grier needs to be aggressive and do whatever it takes to get Tua.