Herbert atop some teams draft wish list

I heard T J Housmanzadeh (sp) on Colin Cowherd yesterday, saying he had worked out with Herbert and he was sure Herbert was gonna go high, maybe really high in the draft.

And he also said he heard from one west coast team who told him Herbert was the top QB on their board! Chargers? Raiders? Who?

https://247sports.com/college/oregon/LongFormArticle/Justin-Herbert-NFL-Mock-Draft-Oregon-Ducks-Football-141798442/#141798442_2

BLEACHER REPORT'S
Miami has reportedly been doing their homework on Herbert, more than any other NFL team writes Bleacher Report's Matt Miller.

"With three selections in Round 1, the Dolphins can do some serious damage. A quarterback will be selected, but after that, look for offensive tackle, edge-rusher and running back to be seriously considered, according to sources with the team's scouting staff. As for quarterback, one high-level source told me no team has done more work on Oregon's Justin Herbert than the Dolphins."

I guess we wait and see what Tua's prospects look like, but I still think Grier is gonna sit at #5, so if Tua looks REAL GOOD, some team is gonna trade up to get him IMO.

Miami may feel that way too, so they are really looking into Herbert it seems?

GAG!!! BARF!!! RETCH!!!

I have started to dabble in my own mock drafts, and my first pick every time is Isaiah Simmons. The way I see it, he's a true impact player and the D sure does need a few. (Unfortunately I have yet to see any site that allows you to make trades.)

In this last one I did I took Eason in the second and then Anthony Gordon in the 6th, although I'd have also gone with Cole McDonald there as well. The one mistake I made was taking a RB too early at 26 and missing out on Mekhi Becton that ginormous OT from Louisville who I would want if I was drafting for real. But at least I can take more cracks at it and do better next time

Herbert will probably go top 10, definitely top 15.

I read an article awhile back that said that teams often spend the most time with players they have questions about, or who they aren't sure about for some reason. It's not that they like the player that much - it's that they haven't been able to get a handle on him. That could be why the Phins are spending so much time on Herbert. Or, they may just be doing their due diligence in case they can't get Tua.

All things being equal, there is a definite dropoff between Burrow/Tua and everyone else. That said, there are reasons why some teams might have Herbert over those two guys: with Burrow, he's only had one great season, and with Tua you have the hip injury.

Herbert is a player that should be great. He has the talent to be as good as anyone. But at Oregon, he never played to that level. Sure, he put up big numbers overall, but he was wildly inconsistent and never really played like "THE MAN". I think a lot of NFL teams are spending time on him to figure out the "why" - why wasn't he as good as he should have been? The answer to that question may be different for different teams, and could determine just how high he goes.

I would be happy with Herbert

I think people are hating on Herbert like they were hating on Prescott and Mahomes but look how well they both have turned out. I want to see what he does in the Senior Bowl and also during the combine. If he does well, he is going to Miami but if he doesn't do well then he dropping to the Chargers or Raiders.

I think this would be good leverage since both of those teams are desperate for a QB. Rivers is getting old and Carr is not wanted in Las Vegas (aka Oakland). I think Miami can get a couple of picks depending on which team wants him more.

I heard something about Herbert that I did not know. Most quarterbacks that achieve the level of success that Herbert has achieved have had private QB coaching. Apparently Herbert has never worked with a QB coach. What he does he’s done with natural ability. Most kids growing up go to camps like Manning’s camp. Not Herbert. They were saying the best is ahead for him.

CarsonChris wrote:I heard something about Herbert that I did not know. Most quarterbacks that achieve the level of success that Herbert has achieved have had private QB coaching. Apparently Herbert has never worked with a QB coach. What he does he’s done with natural ability. Most kids growing up go to camps like Manning’s camp. Not Herbert. They were saying the best is ahead for him.

it was Senior Bowl executive director Jim Nagy...

“Justin has all the talent in the world. You look for guys with things your coaching staff can’t coach. He has all those things: size, athleticism, cannon for an arm and extremely intelligent. I think he plans on becoming a doctor one day.

“If you’re a buyer into Justin Herbert, the upside is he’s very raw still. He’s never had a quarterback guru. Most of these kids have someone working with them from middle school all the way through college. Seeing him at the Manning camp last summer, they would be chomping at the bit to work with him.

“There are some things — footwork and upper body mechanics stuff — he can tighten up [that could limit] some of the inconsistencies you see on tape with accuracy. I told him when he accepted our invite, I said his best football is ahead of him.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article239147958.html

didn't DF316 used to allows say something about Tannehill was a nice guy who would be better off being a doctor? well, Herbert may actually do it.

CarsonChris wrote:I heard something about Herbert that I did not know. Most quarterbacks that achieve the level of success that Herbert has achieved have had private QB coaching. Apparently Herbert has never worked with a QB coach. What he does he’s done with natural ability. Most kids growing up go to camps like Manning’s camp. Not Herbert. They were saying the best is ahead for him.

That actually makes sense, because Herbert really does look very awkward at times. He probably never learned the little details and nuances of the QB position. He's going to need time to develop, and he'll need a real hands-on QB coach. The talent is definitely there.

CarsonChris wrote:I heard something about Herbert that I did not know. Most quarterbacks that achieve the level of success that Herbert has achieved have had private QB coaching. Apparently Herbert has never worked with a QB coach. What he does he’s done with natural ability. Most kids growing up go to camps like Manning’s camp. Not Herbert. They were saying the best is ahead for him.

I see this as a good thing. Most of the time those top QB are previously coached and have a certain style to the way they play but with Herbert using his own abilities means that he can pick up any coaching style quickly and just rely on his natural talent.

rightchea wrote:

CarsonChris wrote:I heard something about Herbert that I did not know. Most quarterbacks that achieve the level of success that Herbert has achieved have had private QB coaching. Apparently Herbert has never worked with a QB coach. What he does he’s done with natural ability. Most kids growing up go to camps like Manning’s camp. Not Herbert. They were saying the best is ahead for him.

I see this as a good thing. Most of the time those top QB are previously coached and have a certain style to the way they play but with Herbert using his own abilities means that he can pick up any coaching style quickly and just rely on his natural talent.

It could be a good thing or a bad thing. If the bad habits he has developed are hard to break, it may be difficult to teach him to do things a different way. You probably don't want to mess with a guy's mechanics too much, but in this case I think Herbert probably needs a lot of work. You watch guys like Burrow and Tua, and everything they do as a QB seems smooth and natural. Herbert doesn't look smooth or natural at all, and that is probably because he never really learned to play the position.

I do agree with you that Herbert might be very attractive to teams like the Raiders and Chargers.

Tim Couch was also atop some people's draft boards at one time.

Degarmo wrote:Tim Couch was also atop some people's draft boards at one time.

Josh Rosen was a top 10 pick. That the Cards traded up for. And that was just two years ago. I don't recall anyone saying Rosen wasn't worthy of being a first round pick at that time, do you?

Also, Leaf was taken over Manning, and to this day we're supposed to believe the Chargers had no idea what kind of person Leaf was, which is hilarious to me

Happy to see you posting again BTW

While I KNOW deep down in my Phins Phaithful bones that the Dolphins need a QB in the worst way to ever be a relevant team in the NFL again...picking a QB this highly scares the bejeeboogers out of me!!!

It is a crapshoot anyway, but when you start trying to PROJECT a college player into the NFL at the QB position, it becomes some sort of arcane, mystical FEELING / devinational talent. And if your GM/Head Coach/Owner whomever...does not have that arcane, mystical clairvoyant devination power, you find your team up Shiite creek!

I know the Phins staff are gonna do their best, but this would be a lot easier with the #1 overall pick.

finfanatic wrote:While I KNOW deep down in my Phins Phaithful bones that the Dolphins need a QB in the worst way to ever be a relevant team in the NFL again...picking a QB this highly scares the bejeeboogers out of me!!!

You can never be scared to draft a potential franchise QB. The teams that are scared are the teams that never win. Sure, chances are better that you'll fail than succeed - but that's true of any draft pick at any position. When it comes to QB, you have to do whatever it takes to get one...and if it doesn't work out, you keep trying til you get it right.

Exactly. If they do their due diligence with Herbert and decide they can develop him, I'm all for it. I haven't seen what I'd like to see from him on the field so far, but he comes across as a team guy with high character and I'd certainly take my chances with a guy like that who has the physical tools. I'd still favor a healthy Tua though.

As long as Tua shows up for the combine and shows out I think Miami will draft him. There really no other team above Miami that going to need a QB.

rightchea wrote:As long as Tua shows up for the combine and shows out I think Miami will draft him. There really no other team above Miami that going to need a QB.

I agree that the Skins, Lions and Giants will not take a QB. But we do have to worry about other teams trying to trade up. The good news is Miami can beat any offer.

JMP wrote:

rightchea wrote:As long as Tua shows up for the combine and shows out I think Miami will draft him. There really no other team above Miami that going to need a QB.

I agree that the Skins, Lions and Giants will not take a QB.  But we do have to worry about other teams trying to trade up.  The good news is Miami can beat any offer.

This is true. There are several teams under Miami that need a QB and I can see someone trying to trade up for Tua above Miami. Miami needs to be ready for all scenarios especially if someone going to trade up above them. So the guarantee that Miami gets Tua is less likely then we would like to believe.

rightchea wrote:

This is true. There are several teams under Miami that need a QB and I can see someone trying to trade up for Tua above Miami. Miami needs to be ready for all scenarios especially if someone going to trade up above them. So the guarantee that Miami gets Tua is less likely then we would like to believe.

Exactly. The part I bolded is key - have to be ready for anything. That's what's so great about having all these picks - gives the Phins so much flexibility to move around - up or down - if they need to.

There are 3 quarterbacks that will most likely go in the top ten. Burrow, Herbert, and Tua. Frankly the medical stuff on Tua scares the shit out of me.

Still feel like it is over hyped what the media is saying but at the same time this is football and any hit could be the end of his career or season.

Burrow is out of the question because I don't see the Bengals passing on him, so for me it comes down to Tua, Herbert and Love. I think the Phins MUST get one of those guys.

I obviously prefer Tua, even with the hip injury. Talent like that doesn't come along often, and when it does the Phins are rarely in position to get it. The more I hear about his recovery, the more I think he'll be just fine with the hip. With all the work he's doing, he'll be in the best shape of his life by the time he's 100%. Take a chance on greatness.

Herbert to me is just a huge question mark...no question on his abilities, but does he have the right personality, and can he improve his poor mechanics (especially footwork) and overall inconsistency? Still, talent like that is worth a gamble if we can't get Tua.

I like Jordan Love a lot and think he'll go top 15 for sure. But same thing as Herbert - I think he's worth the risk, but can he be more consistent and learn to read defenses?

Number of good prospects, honestly I like Tua more than Burrow.

He's done it for more than just one season. He beat out a good QB in Hurts to get the job. His intangibles and accuracy are absolutely elite. Great character guy and excellent leader.

While on this topic I will say this, especially with all signs pointing to Burrow in Cincy. I think he's going to be a bust. There. I said it.

I would be very proud of Grier if he does what it takes to trade up to #3 (or 2 to remove all doubt) and grab Tua. I've seen that kind of move once, and Ireland was unfortunate enough to select Dion Jordan. In his defense, Jordan was ranked high on most teams board, but like all picks, the dreaded "bust" is always possible.

I've seen a couple tweets/articles about how the 49ers draft position vaulted them to this year's Superbowl. I see the point, but it also helps when you have a very good QB get hurt in week 1 and come back the next season fully healthy and playing well, while throwing to an elite TE. They grabbed the #2 draft slot and selected Bosa, an excellent, dominating DE that can control the game - along with the rest of their excellent front four.

Miami's problem isn't the draft position we land in, it's who we pick. Harris over TJ Watt. Ronnie Brown a running back(!) at 2 overall. Jamar Fletcher over Brees (with a scout standing on the table screaming to draft Brees - ignored). Jake Long over Matt Ryan. We can name player after player. THIS MUST STOP.

Grier has to work with his scouting team, and especially his most recent additions in Allen and McKenzie, and get comfortable with the fact that Tua is elite, and is head and shoulders above the competition. Deal with the injury risk, get into position and draft him. I'm so tired of "settling" for Herbert or Love, while Tua goes elsewhere "because too much draft capital, risk of injury, blah blah" and we end up with another Chad Henne, and use the draft picks we held onto to take the next Ronnie Brown and Jamar Fletcher.

Have some conviction, be bold, and draft the player who can be great!

Damn, white, get outta my head! LOL Seriously, I'm in 1000% agreement.

"Miami's problem isn't the draft position we land in, it's who we pick." This sentence is key. Jimmy Johnson always said that every draft class is great...if you make the right picks. We have an abundance of picks this year, and it is absolutely VITAL that we hit on at least a few. And by "hit on", I mean impact players that will help change the direction of this team...not a bunch of guys who start because there's no one better. We don't need a team of All Pros - but we do need a team filled with smart, solid players that understand what they're supposed to do.

this is from the Senior bowl on Herbert

james Crepea wrote:Herbert’s impressive first day of practice featured 91 throws, most by any of the six signal callers, whose passing performances were evaluated by Zebra Technologies, the company behind the NFL’s Next Gen Stats.

The former Oregon quarterback had a maximum initial throwing speed of 65.8 miles per hour, second only to Oklahoma’s Jalen Hurts (66.1 mph), and a maximum initial rotation of 740 rpm and average initial rotation of 518 rpm, behind only Utah State’s Jordan Love (747 and 546, respectively), according to Zebra Technologies. The higher the rate of rotation, the tighter a ball spirals and is delivered accurately, especially in adverse weather conditions.

https://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/2020/01/how-justin-herbert-compared-to-other-qbs-in-first-senior-bowl-practice.html

The thing I don't get with Burrow is he just a system QB because didn't sound like he was good enough to be a starter at Ohio St. Yeah he showed how good he was at LSU but what was the main difference.